Ineos Grenadiers
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I’m not sure many other teams would indulge Pidcock “pissing about” on mountain bikes during the peak of the road season so it feels odd to claim he isn’t being supported.
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Ineos rode really well in the giro as a gc team. Just didn't have the horse power to feature enough
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Maybe, though I guess Pinarello are reasonably happy with two Olympic golds, a cross World champs, MTB world champs, Numerous world cup mtb results and Brabants Pil, Amstel and Strade Bianche on their bikes
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CX isn’t a clash and is commonplace amongst road pros. Very few road pros are allowed to build a season around their MTB ambitions. I’d say the reason Ineos have allowed it is because they see Pidcock as a key part of their future (or saw at the time they signed him maybe). It doesn’t really fit with a narrative that he isn’t supported.
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They seemed to be a bit leaderless at the ToB , it was hard to work out what their tactics were.
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I don't see Pidders as a GT winner as per Roggles, Tadej et al. Different physique, different skills. He should keep doing what he's good at, e.g. one day Classics, grab stage wins where the profile suits, and win multiple CX and MTB awards. The lad is quite good 😉
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He can moan and try talk himself into a release from his contact if he wants. He won't beat Pogacar, van der Poel and Evenepoel no matter what teams he's at.
"Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago2 -
Just to pick one of what seems to be a general vibe in this thread, but wasn't this the kind of comments that were said about Geraint Thomas in 2016/17?
That he should stick to Classics and stop "messing around" trying to win the Tour? Not saying that because Geraint did it that TP will as well, but there's literally a guy riding for the team who has shown it's possible
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And his main rival was an aging teammate.
"Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0 -
If he does next year in stage races what Thomas did in 2016, I think he's justified in going for GC.
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According to Daniel Benson, Ineos are apparently looking to have a U23 team in place for 2026.
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They should sponsor Trinity instead. Then they’ll a) have a team next season already and b) pick up the expertise embedded in Trinity.
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That would make too much sense.
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I'd love to see that happen.
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TP won the MJ ITT at the Worlds in 2017. There's a pedigree there.
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Dan Benson saying that Astana and Movistar ahead of Ineos to land Pablo Castrillo.
I was listening to the latest GTCC podcast this morning, pretty honest summary of the problems at the team being discussed by Luke and G. No superstar riders to challenge in the GC and good domestiques replaced by not so good domestiques.
Interesting slant on Pidcock, Ganna and Hayter. The team gave them the freedom to focus on the Olympics this year. Could point be the reason for that tri not performing as well on the road this year. Possibly.
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Pidcock's road 2024 isn't much different to his 2023,or his 2022 or 2021 - in terms of big results. I just think Ineos have over paid - according to The Move his wages are equal to the entire Kern Pharma team budget.
Luke Rowe mentioned poor recruitment but understandably didn't name names. Geraint seemed more aware that they are still employed by the team and muttered some platitudes about getting back to winning bike races next season. It'd be interesting to get their real opinions but understandably we aren't going to.
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The recruitment seems to be a scatter gun approach, hoping to find the next big thing, without having top helpers. It looks shoddy, but without the next big thing why bother with the top helpers? You could say they're aiming big if you were being positive.
Pidcock is a prime example of trying to sign the next big thing. They probably overpaid because he's British too. Unless they're happy with 1 fairly big 1 day win per year, when Pogacar etc aren't there, I don't think letting him go would be too big a loss results wise. It may look bad from an ambition point of view though.
"Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0 -
A lot of reasonable talent, or up and coming talent seems to have gone in reasonably recently times though imo.
Won't make an exhaustive list, but TGH, Dani Martinez, Carapaz, Dylan Van Baarle (and now PFP!), Ben Tullett, Hayter, Sivakov and Moscon of course......... 😜
They also missed out on Thomas Gloag I understand.
No current GC contenders in there, well apart from PFP, but you'd have to say some reliable solid performers who would be likely to bag you a top 10 in a GC, or a top 5 in a week long stage race - imo.
And that's not even looking at the backroom staff.
8 Years ago it felt like riders were really keen to ride for them, and if they wanted a rider they almost always got them, but now it feels that they are viewed as an undesirable destination for an up and coming rider, and VLB, RBR, UAE, Jayco, or any number of other teams are seen as a better bet.
EDIT to add, if they do put an U23 team in place, that could change things, but if that is not happening until 2026, they are unlikely to reap the rewards in the WT team until 2028 at the earliest - and that's 3.5 years away.
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I agree with people who are suggesting it's at the management level that things are going wrong. Quite a bit of their racing over the left few years has felt like a Sky train cargo cult, where they've done all the riding on the front without once understanding why they used to do all that riding on the front. You just do enough of it and then somebody from the wins, right?
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I think the management can't quite decide what direction they want to go in. Their line-up is a bit of a mess, so they have riders like Omar Fraile, who was brought in as a domestique for GTs, then they only select him twice to do that role in three years with them. There was talk of Bernal going for a GT bid at the Vuelta this year, but instead them picked him for the Tour, after a heavy race program in the first half of the season, and he looked tired from the off.
At the same time, they keep recruiting young talent direct from the junior ranks then barely race them. I don't think you can be both a GC GT team and develop young riders concurrently. If they want to do the latter properly, then having a development team is essential, and you can still give those riders a taste of riding in the WT team, in the way that Groupama-FDJ do so well.
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He does seem to be a one man cycle team though. How have Kern Pharma done relative to pidders?
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Good point about PFP, they may have done better cutting the men's road budget and building a team around her for next year. Would have got them DEI points.
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With Pidcock I think this is the time where he needs to sit down and work out what sort of rider he wants to be. I know he's been written off by many as a GC rider, but it's not clear that he's had any real focus on that. He's got some excellent one day results & stages, and rainbows and golds off-road. Clearly the Olympic focus has been strong, but it's four years to the next one. I know he's said it's a road focus now (maybe some cross for fun/form?) but he's not really talked about what that means and whether it's one day races or GC.
There's been quite a bit of criticism of him "underperforming" but that feels harsh to me - Sky/Ineos knew what they were getting when they signed a young rider who loved riding so many disciplines - and they allowed/supported that. But he's 25 now (still young in the grand scheme of things). While I'm not sure he's cut out for GC I think that if he really wants to try for it and thinks he has what it takes then it's still possible transformation. Geraint Thomas, for example (also coming through with an Olympic focus then going full road after 2012) wasn't really winning any GC with mountains in it until 2015 when he was pushing 30. It's clear that Pidcock is highly motivated and goal oriented, I reckon that with the Olympics out of the way there's a lot more to come from him.
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The problem with going GC has a name and it's called Pogacar. They are basically the same age and Pidcock will only ever win GC at races Pogacar does not attend. Add in Vingegaard and Remco who are also in the same age range and his GC outlook is bleak imho.
I think it makes much more sense for him to keep going exactly the same as he is now. He is not the best in the world at any discipline outside of maybe XCO MTB. However, he has some select big wins everywhere. So if he dodges MvdP, WVA, Pogacar, Remco, Vingegaard etc. he can build an excellent palmares of quality not quantity wins and most likely enjoy his career a lot more while doing so.
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