Ineos Grenadiers

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  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,606
    edited December 2024

    He wanted to ride GC at the Tour last year, but wasn't prepared to fully commit to it as he continued to piss about with his mountain bike ambitions. He was found wanting, but instead of thinking what was best for the team, which would've been to support Carlos Rodriguez on his GC bid, he sulked and barely did a tap to help.

    For me, that tells you everything about him; he spreads himself too thinly, isn't a team player and doesn't have the right attributes to be a GC rider.

  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,606

    If he does end up at Q36.5 he needs a new agent. On the bright side, he'll be sole leader for races like the Sibiu Tour.

  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,933

    Only success who had, Ineos? There was a Giro stage win for Narvaez too.

  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,508
    edited December 2024

    Completely agree. Pidcock is a total racer. He routinely goes for the high risk move to win the race and his otherworldly skill allows him to pull it off. His move on Koretzky in the Olympics was phenomenal and there is a corner he takes at a British road race years ago (there is a clip on a Pidcock highlights YouTube video), which is the best cornering under pressure I've ever seen. I've never had the impression he ducks anyone.

    All that being said, I'm not convinced he is a good investment for a team, except if his value to Pinarello goes way beyond road victories. Not sure how that is calculated. He definitely does not win enough on the road for his rumored salary or talent. It's also unlikely he will ever be able to beat Pogacar, Vingegaard or Remco at a GT.

    What would you all pay him as a road rider? I don't think I'd be willing to go above 1.5 mil.

    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,744
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  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,744

    He wanted to ride GC at the Tour last year, and after one bad day Cummings (and others) wanted him to drop it and ride for Rodriguez. He was rightly pissed off, because the riding for GC thing was supposed to be about learning what was possible, and to do that he needed to keep trying to improve his position to see what he could do. It's not that Ineos tried to turn him into a GC rider when he wanted to ride classics, it's that they didn't fully back him in making the transition.

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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,274

    But Ineos, as Sky did the same with Thomas. I think it was 2016 or 2017 when he was high on GC before Barguil put him into a lampost. He switched to full support of Froome. And then he won the Tour.


    I think ultimately this comes down to what Pidcock wants to do and what Ineos want him to do, with the major difference being the salary. Ineos are paying for a full time road rider, GC contender and he's not delivering.

    Twitter: @RichN95
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,744

    He was only ever riding as second fiddle to Froome in that tour though. He was nearly 5 minutes down already, and lost over 18 minutes. It was stage 16, the race nearly done and dusted. Froome already had a GC win and a 2nd place and was in yellow and the firm favourite (it was 2015, I looked this up, I don't actually have a memory!) He wasn't being asked to ride for a top ten GC hopeful with an outside chance of a podium, from somewhere in the first half of the race.

    Ineos knew when they signed him that PIdock was multidisciplinary, and that was never going to change before he'd had a crack at the Olympic MTB. They were fully on board with it, like they're on board with Ganna et al riding track. What it looked like to me was Cummings effectively pulling the plug on Pidcock's GC ambitions (and development) mid-race, and with very little tact or diplomacy at all, for very little point (Rodriguez wasn't looking incredible). How it all played out wasn't even clear to Pidcock until the Netflix show aired this year, and he understandably was upset about how he'd been discussed behind the scenes.

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  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,648
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,648

    You're under playing Rodriguez's position. Around the time pidcock collapsed, Rodriguez beat Pogacar and Vingergaard to a mountain stage and looked like the favourite to get third until he crashed and went off the boil. He was a good bet at that time and deserved support from the full team.

    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,933

    Pidcock already had an Olympic MTB gold before riding his first Tour. Continuing for the Paris Games could definitely be seen as an indulgence for one of your main road riders. I guess it all comes down to what was discussed and agreed when putting together his contract and what the team had as their expectations in return. Has he been upholding his part of the bargain in return for that freedom to continue pursuing MTB medals?

  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,136

    don't they call it "monkey branching" ?

    So that's the two most successful cyclists of 2024 on the Ineos roster, gone!

    BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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  • carbonclem
    carbonclem Posts: 1,828

    New co- sponsor incoming, according to Ciro.

    2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner
  • The Sir Big Jim cost cutting crusade continues.


    They want a 2nd sponsor to "return to the top level of cycling", which means Sir Big Jim won't stump up the cash to challenge the likes of Visma and UAE

  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,885
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,606

    The sport has moved on, and to compete at the highest level, they need a larger budget. Ineos will remain as a sponsor, but they aren't prepared to increase their contribution, hence looking for a co-sponsor. On what planet is that "cost cutting"?

  • carbonclem
    carbonclem Posts: 1,828

    Could be the first stage is the exit plan for Ineos?

    2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,413

    What's an extra few million a year to him? He saving up for something special?

  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,885

    Rumour has it he made his money by being tight. That rumour is decades old.

    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • wakemalcolm
    wakemalcolm Posts: 1,012

    I'm not overly surprised by this. It's unusual for a WT team to have a single title sponsor. At the moment it's only Cofidis, Movistar and the nation state supported teams that only have one. I recall team Armstrong stretching the naming rights rules further by adding a 'presented by' suffix.

    Maybe Ineos-Shell presented by Coal India is the green washing ideal to aim for.

    ================================
    Cake is just weakness entering the body
  • roscoe
    roscoe Posts: 540

    It’s actually quite scary how Ineos manage to invest in Teams on the downturn and make them worse.

    The Grenadiers seem to be an absolute shambles. Another year of rebuilding incoming, how many is that now? They’ve got issues with too many layers of decision making.

  • carbonclem
    carbonclem Posts: 1,828

    It was only today I read that Ineos only have 27 riders , not the 30 allowed. Thats got to be a deliberate cost saving move surely? 10% reduction …. seems mad.

    2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,885

    Jim Ratcliffe is keen on efficiency. This efficiency invariably means job cutting.

    Both his cycling and football teams had best start winning (ROI) or they will be subject to more efficiencies.

    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,606

    Well, Pidcock leaving wasn't part of the plan was it? So that's one slot on the roster they thought was filled.

  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,606

    I've not done any analysis on this, but I think Ineos are one of the teams that does the fewest race days amongst the WT teams. They are very choosey about which non-WT races they ride, and I know some riders, especially the younger ones, were unhappy about how few race days they were getting.

    So the 28 rider roster could be a reflection of that, with the idea that everyone would get more race days than when they had a 30 rider roster.

  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 12,139

    There's 29 on here, but 2 are at the junior team is that correct?

    https://www.ineosgrenadiers.com/team/

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  • wakemalcolm
    wakemalcolm Posts: 1,012

    ProCyclingStats currently lists 27 riders for INEOS.

    I'm not sure at what stage Wurf usually gets unveiled as their bivvy bag signing.

    ================================
    Cake is just weakness entering the body
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,744

    Yes, the two young Danish riders - Theodor Storm and Peter Oxenberg - will be riding for Lotto Kern-Haus PSD Bank this season. I've no idea whether that means they could also ride for Ineos at some races, though I'd guess not.

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  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 12,139

    Seems a tad odd that they choose to include them in the main teams rider lineup in that case 🧐

    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18