Ineos Grenadiers
Comments
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Only off-road; Ineos have an arrangement with Monster, so don't allow him to wear it on the road.
All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."0 -
Exactly.....
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What an absolute shambles.
It makes you wonder exactly what is going on behind the scenes at the team.
If they decided to just fold at the end of the year, what’s the financial impact? Pay off all rider and staff contracts? Repay sponsors?
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What do you expect the management of the team to do when one of their leaders is actively looking to break his contract, despite it having three years still to run?
Pidcock has made it very clear he wants out, i think the team have every right to pull him out of races.
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Really? I can think of plenty of footballers were similar has happened, but the team still pick them as they're needed.
Pro cycling is still pretty amateur-ish, and teams are still happy to shoot themselves in the foot purely out of spite.
All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."2 -
I think we should wait for the full story to come out before drawing any conclusions
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Either pick him or drop him completely. If they’re willing to subsidise another team taking him, then they can afford to keep him and race him or leave him not riding.
Don’t get me wrong, I love following them, have done since Sky formed, but the lack of direction is really frustrating. It makes you wonder what the plans are for the future.
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The guy said before the tour that he'll decide how he rides not the team. He's come across as a dick a couple of times this season and he can't back it up with results. If ineos are paying £6-7m per year for him and Bernal it's no wonder they can't compete.
"Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago2 -
Bernal situation is a bit different. Who knows what he could have achieved if he hadn’t had that accident.
Pidcock’s acting like a spoiled kid.
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When he's sunk £200m into the boat, it's not money that's a problem if he wants to win. He could pay them off if they're taking up spaces that could go to other, better riders who they could get. I just don't think they can get them.
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But Radcliffe seems to somehow want value for money.
What does he think is going to happen if they find the next big thing? They aren't going to hang around at mid table ineos when UAE start throwing money around or Lidl, Red Bull or Visma offer them a generally better team.
"Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago1 -
They are no longer an attractive looking destination for up and coming riders, eg Tulett leaving after 2 years for Visma.
It just feels/seems like a downward spiral, quite sad from the heady heights of the previous decade.
Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 182 -
Said it before, there is quite the comparison with ManU. Radcliffe is gaining some reputation, and not a good one.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.2 -
Yes, I've said before I don't understand what he's doing. Billionaire playthings aren't supposed to be about getting value.
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Mercedes F1 aren’t the force they were before Ineos got involved either.
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Man Utd haven't been very good since Fergie left, so their decline pre-dates Radcliffe by over a decade.
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Yeah but the decline is continuing. Has not stopped it, far less turned it around. When you sell McTominay and things get worse that is some level of the decline.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
A juggernaut like Man Utd takes a while to turn around though, and Ineos have only been involved since last Xmas or so, haven't they? I think they replaced the director of football, so they made change at the very top, which is what you've got to do to have an effect later. Without that your recruitment is buggered and you can' really have much effect by firing the manager.
I say this as an Arsenal fan that would be happy if Ineos accidentally drove that Man U juggernaut into the sea at Barcelona to try and race the New Zealand boat.
Warning No formatter is installed for the format1 -
This is possibly coincidentally true, but I don't believe there is any link.
With zero evidence, it feels as if Ratcliffe has simply lost interest in the cycling team, though it seems a mystery as to why he perseveres as opposed to shutting it down, unless Ineos are waiting for a buyout?
Is a WT licence a 'thing' that up and coming teams would count as valuable.
They have Tarling, Ganna and Rodriguez, and potentially Pidcock, but apart from those 4, I don't see much to attract buyers.
Everyone else of note, or not at the end of their careers, has already flown.
Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 181 -
My top trolling scenario has the billionaire owner of Q36.5 sign Pidcock, then buy the Ineos WT license in a deal which keeps the sports and performance directors in place for three years.
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What’s happened to Sheffield? He looked promising, is it simply he keeps crashing?
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Every team at the moment has to deal with the UAE problem. The biggest part of this is Pogacar. Pidcock is less than a year younger. What big races is he likely to win? He's third tier at best.
Also UAE are buying up a lot of the new talent too. Ayuso has been followed by Del Toro and Torres. Their train makes the Sky train look like a Hornby set.
So what to do. One option, which Ineos seems to be taking, is a have some placeholders like Rodriguez, Arensman, De Plus and Bernal. while they take punts on riders not from the Western European circuit who are seven or eight years younger than Pogacar in the hope of finding the next Froome. Ironically Israel may be attracting the same riders due to Froome's presence..
The other option is the old HTC model, used to an extent now by Lidl-Trek and Alpecin. Bin the GC at major races, go for wins
Twitter: @RichN950 -
Bot harsh on Pidcock imo. He's won Strade and Amstel which outside of monuments are as big as one day races get - that must put him in the second tier of classics riders just outside the likes of Pogacar, MVdP and Remco.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]2 -
Third tier behind MVdP and Remco. Pogacar is a tier above them.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Honestly, if you can't buy Pog, Vingegaard, MvdP, Roglic, Remco, Van Aert or Mads P you're pretty stuffed right now, and the last two of those are still only second favourites in any classic with Pog or MvdP at the start.
In the last three seasons the only riders not named Pog, Remco or MvdP to win a monument or the Worlds are Philipsen (MSR), Mohoric (MSR) and Van Baarle (Roubaix). The three years before that had Alaphilippe (x3), Fuglsang (X2), Stuyven, Van Aert, Asgreen, Bettiol, Colbrelli, Gilbert, Roglic, Mollema and Mads P all winning the biggest races.
Hindley and Kuss the only riders not called Pog, Jonas, Remco or Roglic to win a GT in the last three years. Bernal (x2), Tao and Carapaz the three years before that.
The picture isn't much different outside the GTs and classics, though it largely depends on how the top riders are knitting their calendars together - e.g. for the two biggest (yes, debatable) races not in the monuments list
Strade Bianche
- 2024 POGAČAR Tadej
- 2023 PIDCOCK Thomas
- 2022 POGAČAR Tadej
- 2021 VAN DER POEL Mathieu
- 2020 VAN AERT Wout
- 2019 ALAPHILIPPE Julian
Amstel
- 2024 PIDCOCK Thomas
- 2023 POGAČAR Tadej
- 2022 KWIATKOWSKI Michał
- 2021 VAN AERT Wout
- 2019 VAN DER POEL Mathieu
So in the past three years, five riders have hoovered up almost everything of note bar a Giro, a Vuelta and an MSR or two. I don't think there's much unusual about that, we've had Sagan, Gilbert, Boonen, Cancellara, Froome, Valverde etc in years gone by, it's just that Sky had such a period of GC dominance previously, and that Pog is also dominating one day races. But honestly, you've got the rider or you haven't. Ineos haven't.
Warning No formatter is installed for the format2 -
How about a straight swap, Pidcock for Remco? 🤣
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I suspect that at some stage the UAE youngsters will find their path to the top spot blocked and will move on or they'll fail to develop to their full potential (similar happened with Sky and a proportion of their talent wasn't quite so young and upcomin).
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I'd definitely agree Ineos do not have 'THE' rider, or A rider capable of taking them back to the to consistent winning ways, but to repeat myself, it feels as if there is no focus on the direction the team should be taking, in parallel with seemingly very few riders wanting to join them.
How many riders have been talked about recently, and that Ineos are interested in them, only for them to end up at another team, Castrillo is an obvious and well known recent example - not that I am suggesting for a 2nd he would be the silver bullet, but just as an example.
Back in the day, other riders would be almost certain to sign for a certain team, Sky would want them, and Sky would get them, by whatever means, likely paying over the odds, but the rider must have also decided they wanted to end up there.
They seemingly haven't really considered remodelling into a stages or classics team - they have one aging sprinter, who is a fair way past his best, and for the last few years Pidcock has been their classics and one day man, but seemingly now totally out of favour.
Dylan van Baarle has gone, Nharvaez who could win stages has also gone.
I'm guessing morale within the team, front and back end must be pretty low right now.
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Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
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Scott Foil 180 -
I would say one of their big issues is that they are losing the riders they have that can win on their day. Narvaez is the obvious example from this season, Pidcock looks like he might follow, as mentioned above DVB previously. Even the 'guaranteed' Ganna wins in the top TTs are drying up with Remco seeming to have the measure of him (and Tarling) at present.
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@Pross I forgot add previous dead certs like Ganna seem to have dropped off somewhat, or perhaps the training methods they used are now outdated and other teams have come up with better training and fuelling strategies.
I know Pidcock stated iirc that the training methods they employed for him were not allowing him to get the best out of himself, maybe that is the same for the other riders in the team as well - that would be another negative to put top tier, or potential top tier riders off joining them.
Tarling's very young, but he has seemed pretty dejected in recent interviews, and his form has clearly dropped off - are they asking too much of them, is the training not optimised potentially - all guesswork of course.
Does anyone recall the TGH interviews at a few races, I forget which ones, it was a stage race, and it seemed like he was at rock bottom, difficult to watch.
Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 180
