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Zone 6: the hill climb thread

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  • simon_esimon_e Posts: 1,679

    Surprisingly there is zero difference in handling, as if I never changed it... it goes to show that all this literati stuff about frame angles and tubes lengths is mostly nonsense... a bike is a bike, which is what I always thought. I just about notice the difference between a road bike and a Brompton...

    Just because you personally have not detected any noticeable difference does not mean that fork length or rake don't matter to anyone else or that their perceptions of those aspects of bike geometry is therefore nonsense. If you don't happen to have a taste for fine food and wine and no interest in those things doesn't mean all connoisseurs of good food or wine vintages are necessarily talking nonsense.

    Perhaps you're just part of the cycling 'illiterati' (and I don't mean that in a harsh way, just perhaps that stuff is not relevant or of interest, which is fine).
    Aspire not to have more, but to be more.
  • Perhaps... but I was expecting to notice some difference... but there was no difference... not even a placebo effect...
  • I find there is a lot of handling difference between my two bikes when you get onto them for the first time but you quickly adjust to it.
  • webboowebboo Posts: 3,038
    I guess when you always drive tractors they all seem very similar. B)
  • I find there is a lot of handling difference between my two bikes when you get onto them for the first time but you quickly adjust to it.

    Well, all I can say is that it's not due to the fork...
  • I read an article on Andrew Feather, who won the National and whom I follow on Strava. Just as I thought, his training is unstructured, basically he goes for a couple of hours ride most days and hits a couple of climbs really hard... he doesn't do indoor stuff, he doesn't do crazy reps and pyramid intervals, he doesn't follow religiously a diet and doesn't eat the latest miracle protein source... I'm kind of pleased that my attitude to training is somewhat endorsed by the best in the game.
    Of course he has a VO2 Max of 81 ml/kg min, so he will always be good no matter what, but it's good to see training doesn't have to be something to dread
  • I would imagine it's probably more considered than he lets on.

    Like when people who bosh exams say things like 'i didn't really work very hard'
  • I would imagine it's probably more considered than he lets on.

    Like when people who bosh exams say things like 'i didn't really work very hard'

    He might do some secret training, but the rides are there to see. He also has a full time job, a proper one, so I assume what you see is what he does, give or take. To be honest, if you have to train for one 3 minute effort only, I don't see why you need to do 30 hours a week on the bike... it's about finding what works with your body, which might not be necessarily hard intervals...

    I recall Hutch in his books always said that as he grew as an athlete he trained harder and harder, but didn't really improve as a result...

    People have a tendency to over-train
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 9,083
    I don't think it's that he is doing extra secret workouts, just that the rides he is doing might have a bit more behind them than he is saying. Going out for a couple of hours and hitting a couple of climbs really hard is still structured riding, if he is doing it like that. He's effectively saying he does a couple of VO2 intervals each ride. It's also 14 hours a week which is quite a bit for most amateurs.

    Of course as you say, with a VO2 max that high he can basically do what he wants and still be really fecking fast...
  • I don't think it's that he is doing extra secret workouts, just that the rides he is doing might have a bit more behind them than he is saying. Going out for a couple of hours and hitting a couple of climbs really hard is still structured riding, if he is doing it like that. He's effectively saying he does a couple of VO2 intervals each ride. It's also 14 hours a week which is quite a bit for most amateurs.

    Of course as you say, with a VO2 max that high he can basically do what he wants and still be really fecking fast...

    In that case my training is structured too... I tend to do the same over the summer... a couple of hours with 2 or 3 short climbs to hit hard...

    Oh the summer, he said whilst glancing at the window... hopefully it will get better later in the week
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 9,083

    I don't think it's that he is doing extra secret workouts, just that the rides he is doing might have a bit more behind them than he is saying. Going out for a couple of hours and hitting a couple of climbs really hard is still structured riding, if he is doing it like that. He's effectively saying he does a couple of VO2 intervals each ride. It's also 14 hours a week which is quite a bit for most amateurs.

    Of course as you say, with a VO2 max that high he can basically do what he wants and still be really fecking fast...

    In that case my training is structured too... I tend to do the same over the summer... a couple of hours with 2 or 3 short climbs to hit hard...

    Oh the summer, he said whilst glancing at the window... hopefully it will get better later in the week
    Well yeah, just by going out with a bit of a plan for your ride, riding steady and hitting a few climbs very hard *is* fairly structured. You're just using the terrain to drive your intervals, and seems to be pretty common amongst pros if you look at their Strava etc.. The rest of us do it in 60-90 mins on the turbo because we don't have time to do 4+ hour rides every day with multiple blocks in them...

    The mistake a lot of people make is spending all their rides in Zone 3, chasing high average speeds etc., which is obviously fun and has its place but if you do every ride like that it isn't going to be very productive in the long run.
  • ^ what is more important than high average speeds, especially when posting to Strava?
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 9,083

    ^ what is more important than high average speeds, especially when posting to Strava?

    Depends what you want to get out of it? On Strava, maybe KOMs or beating your mates on segments? On the whole I'm more bothered about my times up popular local climbs than my overall average speed, except for a couple of flat fast routes I do sometimes.

    For example I assume Ugo is normally much more interested in his time over some particular 3-5 minute intervals than in his average speed over a 2 hour ride.

    Anyway, in the end you will be able to get higher average speeds on your fast rides if you spend some rides doing proper intervals than if you spend every ride in sweetspot - that's pretty much the definition of junk miles. Unless you don't really care about training or being as fast as possible, in which case there's not really any such thing as junk miles, which is totally valid.
  • I was joking, sort of
  • joe2019joe2019 Posts: 969

    I was joking, sort of

    :) I've seen plenty of riders dramatically change their routes from hilly moorland rides to flat A road rides since the advent of Strava.
  • Attempting a Basecamp challenge on Tuesday... 24 ascents of Saintbury Hill in the Cotswolds for a total of 4424 mt of ascent...
    Perfect time of the year, innit... :s
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,736

    Attempting a Basecamp challenge on Tuesday... 24 ascents of Saintbury Hill in the Cotswolds for a total of 4424 mt of ascent...
    Perfect time of the year, innit... :s

    Well a man has to have a hobby :p;)
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • joe2019joe2019 Posts: 969

    Attempting a Basecamp challenge on Tuesday... 24 ascents of Saintbury Hill in the Cotswolds for a total of 4424 mt of ascent...
    Perfect time of the year, innit... :s


    I can recall you being very dismissive of the 'Everesting' thing not so long ago. :)
  • joe2019 said:

    Attempting a Basecamp challenge on Tuesday... 24 ascents of Saintbury Hill in the Cotswolds for a total of 4424 mt of ascent...
    Perfect time of the year, innit... :s


    I can recall you being very dismissive of the 'Everesting' thing not so long ago. :)
    Yes, it's a stupid idea and a ridiculous thing to do... haven't changed my mind

    I can't think of any other challenge right now and I need one... don't want to cycle too far during a pandemic... what's left to do?
  • joe2019joe2019 Posts: 969
    :)
  • AND gives me an excuse to eat SPAM sandwiches... this time with green pepper mustard... what a connoisseur... ;)
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,736

    AND gives me an excuse to eat SPAM sandwiches... this time with green pepper mustard... what a connoisseur... ;)

    I've not had real spam (not the email type) since my primary school days and i clearly remember it being amazing, spam fritters yummy or were they ...?
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • webboowebboo Posts: 3,038
    joe2019 said:

    Attempting a Basecamp challenge on Tuesday... 24 ascents of Saintbury Hill in the Cotswolds for a total of 4424 mt of ascent...
    Perfect time of the year, innit... :s


    I can recall you being very dismissive of the 'Everesting' thing not so long ago. :)
    How dismissive of half Everesting was he. ;)
  • Yes, SPAM is surprisingly nice... and as junk food goes, is not too bad either... 8 ingredients in all, compare with the 50+ in a packaged sandwich
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,736

    Yes, SPAM is surprisingly nice... and as junk food goes, is not too bad either... 8 ingredients in all, compare with the 50+ in a packaged sandwich

    their website it packed fully of recipes i've put a couple of tins on the shopping list
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • Has nobody suggested doing your Rapha 500 on Sainsbury Hill yet? ;)
    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • Has nobody suggested doing your Rapha 500 on Sainsbury Hill yet? ;)

    You are the first...
  • Failed... had to settle for a 1/3 of an Everest. I was a couple of minutes too slow per lap, meaning I would have run out of light... I tried to inject some pace between ascent 7 and 12, but I became slower after that... the idea of finishing in the dark, coming down a slippy road without being able to see the dry patches, good for braking was not appealing... besides, I think I lost motivation after the 12th ascent, as I began to get slower and slower

    Really a cretin thing to do... :D

    https://www.strava.com/activities/4475094635
  • joe2019joe2019 Posts: 969
    Anything less than an Everest is a cop out anyway. Why bother?
  • Does every hill you go up end in an everesting?
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