Seemingly trivial things that you give absolutely no f's about, but others go apeshít over.

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Comments

  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    rick_chasey said:

    Our own resident Jordan Peterson 😂😂

    Despite his long ramblings, if there are any videos worth watching from him it's the ones on alcohol.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    mrfpb said:

    Why does having a drink have to be a difficult complex experience?

    I could no doubt get a complexity of flavours drinking water from the ditches I pass on my rides, and if I did it often enough, I'm sure I could "acquire the taste" for it. But I'm not going to.

    I appreciate the difference between Bach and Vivaldi, I like them both, but neither of them kill my brain cells.

    I like a glass of wine or cider occasionally, but my life seems to have got better since massively reducing my alcohol intake.

    I remember watching a TV programme where this old guy had been told to stop drinking beer and was drinking sherry instead. He developed 'a taste' for it. It was the alcohol he liked, not the taste.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Our own resident Jordan Peterson 😂😂

    Despite his long ramblings, if there are any videos worth watching from him it's the ones on alcohol.
    CALLED IT
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    I completely disagree with this. If non-alcoholic beer tasted the same as the proper stuff, then I'd drink it as a preference. But the alcohol gives beer a kind of thickness, and really rounds the flavour (if you're not drinking some sh1te like Budweiser).
    That's the alcohol and the endorphins (NB not a neuroscientist) that are released when you drink.
    It's not. If you've never tasted a complex vintage red wine that's like a symphony unfolding on your taste buds with each taste, then that's your loss.
    I think I can deal with that. What do you think a person who's never drunk alcohol would think of that wine? Most likely that it tastes like fruit juice that's gone off (which, although, simplistic) is what alcohol is. I like wine and I like beer but I'm not deluded (not meant as a personal dig) enough to think it's not really about the effect. There are better or worse ways to deliver alcohol to your system, of course.

    In my experience, often the things that appeal instantly are the things that are one-dimensional; the things that don't reveal themselves on first taste/hearing, often because they are complex, are the things that are the most satisfying in the long term.

    If you just like the simple things, fine - but to discount the world of complex flavours in good wine as "fruit juice that's gone off" is rather like dismissing Bach as "Vivaldi that's gone off". I'm fine with people who enjoy Vivaldi and not Bach, but generally they tend not to claim that their limited palate has a scientific basis.
    Music isn't, basically, a poison. I'm not disputing the fact that some wines taste better than others but what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable. I think the science behind what alcohol does is pretty clear.
    This is obviously nonsense.

    The water/alcohol ratio in a drink has a big impact on the flavours that are brought forward and sent back.

    Plus how it interacts with your tongue. It also a big amplifier of certain flavours and characteristics.
    _
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Our own resident Jordan Peterson 😂😂

    Despite his long ramblings, if there are any videos worth watching from him it's the ones on alcohol.
    CALLED IT
    I don't remember him saying anything that I'm saying about this.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    I completely disagree with this. If non-alcoholic beer tasted the same as the proper stuff, then I'd drink it as a preference. But the alcohol gives beer a kind of thickness, and really rounds the flavour (if you're not drinking some sh1te like Budweiser).
    That's the alcohol and the endorphins (NB not a neuroscientist) that are released when you drink.
    It's not. If you've never tasted a complex vintage red wine that's like a symphony unfolding on your taste buds with each taste, then that's your loss.
    I think I can deal with that. What do you think a person who's never drunk alcohol would think of that wine? Most likely that it tastes like fruit juice that's gone off (which, although, simplistic) is what alcohol is. I like wine and I like beer but I'm not deluded (not meant as a personal dig) enough to think it's not really about the effect. There are better or worse ways to deliver alcohol to your system, of course.

    In my experience, often the things that appeal instantly are the things that are one-dimensional; the things that don't reveal themselves on first taste/hearing, often because they are complex, are the things that are the most satisfying in the long term.

    If you just like the simple things, fine - but to discount the world of complex flavours in good wine as "fruit juice that's gone off" is rather like dismissing Bach as "Vivaldi that's gone off". I'm fine with people who enjoy Vivaldi and not Bach, but generally they tend not to claim that their limited palate has a scientific basis.
    Music isn't, basically, a poison. I'm not disputing the fact that some wines taste better than others but what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable. I think the science behind what alcohol does is pretty clear.
    This is obviously nonsense.

    The water/alcohol ratio in a drink has a big impact on the flavours that are brought forward and sent back.

    Plus how it interacts with your tongue. It also a big amplifier of certain flavours and characteristics.
    Only if you're dependent (even mildly dependent) on the alcohol. Look up the science of what alcohol does if you don't believe me. Or keep telling yourself that you're sophisticated because you like certain drinks...

  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,379
    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    I completely disagree with this. If non-alcoholic beer tasted the same as the proper stuff, then I'd drink it as a preference. But the alcohol gives beer a kind of thickness, and really rounds the flavour (if you're not drinking some sh1te like Budweiser).
    That's the alcohol and the endorphins (NB not a neuroscientist) that are released when you drink.
    It's not. If you've never tasted a complex vintage red wine that's like a symphony unfolding on your taste buds with each taste, then that's your loss.
    I think I can deal with that. What do you think a person who's never drunk alcohol would think of that wine? Most likely that it tastes like fruit juice that's gone off (which, although, simplistic) is what alcohol is. I like wine and I like beer but I'm not deluded (not meant as a personal dig) enough to think it's not really about the effect. There are better or worse ways to deliver alcohol to your system, of course.

    In my experience, often the things that appeal instantly are the things that are one-dimensional; the things that don't reveal themselves on first taste/hearing, often because they are complex, are the things that are the most satisfying in the long term.

    If you just like the simple things, fine - but to discount the world of complex flavours in good wine as "fruit juice that's gone off" is rather like dismissing Bach as "Vivaldi that's gone off". I'm fine with people who enjoy Vivaldi and not Bach, but generally they tend not to claim that their limited palate has a scientific basis.
    Music isn't, basically, a poison. I'm not disputing the fact that some wines taste better than others but what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable. I think the science behind what alcohol does is pretty clear.
    This is obviously nonsense.

    The water/alcohol ratio in a drink has a big impact on the flavours that are brought forward and sent back.

    Plus how it interacts with your tongue. It also a big amplifier of certain flavours and characteristics.
    Only if you're dependent (even mildly dependent) on the alcohol. Look up the science of what alcohol does if you don't believe me. Or keep telling yourself that you're sophisticated because you like certain drinks...

    This is a classic forum argument. Person A arguing about one thing, person B saying no, and responding about something completely different.

    The irony with this being on the current thread is that most people don't give a monkey's.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited June 2020
    First.Aspect said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    I completely disagree with this. If non-alcoholic beer tasted the same as the proper stuff, then I'd drink it as a preference. But the alcohol gives beer a kind of thickness, and really rounds the flavour (if you're not drinking some sh1te like Budweiser).
    That's the alcohol and the endorphins (NB not a neuroscientist) that are released when you drink.
    It's not. If you've never tasted a complex vintage red wine that's like a symphony unfolding on your taste buds with each taste, then that's your loss.
    I think I can deal with that. What do you think a person who's never drunk alcohol would think of that wine? Most likely that it tastes like fruit juice that's gone off (which, although, simplistic) is what alcohol is. I like wine and I like beer but I'm not deluded (not meant as a personal dig) enough to think it's not really about the effect. There are better or worse ways to deliver alcohol to your system, of course.

    In my experience, often the things that appeal instantly are the things that are one-dimensional; the things that don't reveal themselves on first taste/hearing, often because they are complex, are the things that are the most satisfying in the long term.

    If you just like the simple things, fine - but to discount the world of complex flavours in good wine as "fruit juice that's gone off" is rather like dismissing Bach as "Vivaldi that's gone off". I'm fine with people who enjoy Vivaldi and not Bach, but generally they tend not to claim that their limited palate has a scientific basis.
    Music isn't, basically, a poison. I'm not disputing the fact that some wines taste better than others but what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable. I think the science behind what alcohol does is pretty clear.
    This is obviously nonsense.

    The water/alcohol ratio in a drink has a big impact on the flavours that are brought forward and sent back.

    Plus how it interacts with your tongue. It also a big amplifier of certain flavours and characteristics.
    Only if you're dependent (even mildly dependent) on the alcohol. Look up the science of what alcohol does if you don't believe me. Or keep telling yourself that you're sophisticated because you like certain drinks...

    This is a classic forum argument. Person A arguing about one thing, person B saying no, and responding about something completely different.

    The irony with this being on the current thread is that most people don't give a monkey's.
    Wehay. Fair, though in fairness to me, I and i like to be fair to myself, Nick did say this

    what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable
    which is obviously not right, and is a comment on the taste and flavour, rather than the effect on your brain.
    _
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,269
    Thought ethanol is essentially tasteless. And the flavour / taste of alcoholic products is all down to process and additives. Mind you been a long time since 1st year undergrad Chemistry class, mainly involving pubs if memory serves.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,811
    edited June 2020
    fatted864 said:

    Theodore Roosevelt
    “Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty… I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well.”

    Given his childhood illness, it's not really a surprising point of view. It's just a sort of post-rationalisation.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • mr_goo
    mr_goo Posts: 3,770
    nickice said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    mr_goo likes Ardbeg single malt.
    You wouldn't drink that for effect: that's all about the taste, which is acquired.
    Plus it's expensive these days.
    You see I've never really bought the idea of an acquired taste either. It seems to happen with substances that contain drugs like caffeine or alcohol. People might think they like the taste but what they actually like is the effect of the alcohol.
    No. I really like the taste. I don't like any other Islay malts as they're what I imagine creosote would taste like. All Islay malts are acquired taste.

    Real Ale is also down to personal taste too.
    Orkney Dark Island
    Andwell Ruddy Darter
    being a couple of my favourites.
    IPA is trendy with real ale lovers but I find many of them palate wreckers.

    Craft beer I don't get as it's supposed to be small batch brewing. Brew Dog still think they're a craft brewer which flies in face of the terminology.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    nickice said:

    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    I completely disagree with this. If non-alcoholic beer tasted the same as the proper stuff, then I'd drink it as a preference. But the alcohol gives beer a kind of thickness, and really rounds the flavour (if you're not drinking some sh1te like Budweiser).
    That's the alcohol and the endorphins (NB not a neuroscientist) that are released when you drink.
    It's not just the neurological effect of alcohol and endorphins; the process of getting a certain weight of alcohol into a drink affects the taste of the drink itself. In a way which appeals to me and others.

    I actually really enjoyed my first drink of alcohol, which was a can of lager camping on a family holiday.
    Ben

    Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    I completely disagree with this. If non-alcoholic beer tasted the same as the proper stuff, then I'd drink it as a preference. But the alcohol gives beer a kind of thickness, and really rounds the flavour (if you're not drinking some sh1te like Budweiser).
    That's the alcohol and the endorphins (NB not a neuroscientist) that are released when you drink.
    It's not. If you've never tasted a complex vintage red wine that's like a symphony unfolding on your taste buds with each taste, then that's your loss.
    I think I can deal with that. What do you think a person who's never drunk alcohol would think of that wine? Most likely that it tastes like fruit juice that's gone off (which, although, simplistic) is what alcohol is. I like wine and I like beer but I'm not deluded (not meant as a personal dig) enough to think it's not really about the effect. There are better or worse ways to deliver alcohol to your system, of course.

    In my experience, often the things that appeal instantly are the things that are one-dimensional; the things that don't reveal themselves on first taste/hearing, often because they are complex, are the things that are the most satisfying in the long term.

    If you just like the simple things, fine - but to discount the world of complex flavours in good wine as "fruit juice that's gone off" is rather like dismissing Bach as "Vivaldi that's gone off". I'm fine with people who enjoy Vivaldi and not Bach, but generally they tend not to claim that their limited palate has a scientific basis.
    Music isn't, basically, a poison. I'm not disputing the fact that some wines taste better than others but what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable. I think the science behind what alcohol does is pretty clear.
    This is obviously nonsense.

    The water/alcohol ratio in a drink has a big impact on the flavours that are brought forward and sent back.

    Plus how it interacts with your tongue. It also a big amplifier of certain flavours and characteristics.
    Only if you're dependent (even mildly dependent) on the alcohol. Look up the science of what alcohol does if you don't believe me. Or keep telling yourself that you're sophisticated because you like certain drinks...

    This is a classic forum argument. Person A arguing about one thing, person B saying no, and responding about something completely different.

    The irony with this being on the current thread is that most people don't give a monkey's.
    Wehay. Fair, though in fairness to me, I and i like to be fair to myself, Nick did say this

    what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable
    which is obviously not right, and is a comment on the taste and flavour, rather than the effect on your brain.
    Isn't the point he's making that the alcohol is there purely for its effect rather than to add anything to the taste? I'm not sure many people really enjoy the taste of straight vodka which is why the vast majority mix it with something and even the vodka itself already has some other flavouring to it.

    The fact that, if I'm driving on a night out, I'll drink a soft drink of some kind rather than a non-alcoholic beer suggests he has a point in my case and whilst I enjoy a single malt and don't drink it to get smashed I don't think it would be a drink I would choose to keep me company on a cold night if it wasn't for the alcoholic effect. The exception might be something like a good wine with a meal, the taste seems to work better with food than a non-alcoholic drink as they tend to be too sweet. Also, having only tried gin for the first time a couple of years ago I would quite happily drink a G&T on a warm summer evening as a non-alcoholic drink as it's a refreshing taste (it could be mainly down to the tonic but having drunk tonic water on its own I don't like it).
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,710
    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    I completely disagree with this. If non-alcoholic beer tasted the same as the proper stuff, then I'd drink it as a preference. But the alcohol gives beer a kind of thickness, and really rounds the flavour (if you're not drinking some sh1te like Budweiser).
    That's the alcohol and the endorphins (NB not a neuroscientist) that are released when you drink.
    It's not. If you've never tasted a complex vintage red wine that's like a symphony unfolding on your taste buds with each taste, then that's your loss.
    I think I can deal with that. What do you think a person who's never drunk alcohol would think of that wine? Most likely that it tastes like fruit juice that's gone off (which, although, simplistic) is what alcohol is. I like wine and I like beer but I'm not deluded (not meant as a personal dig) enough to think it's not really about the effect. There are better or worse ways to deliver alcohol to your system, of course.

    In my experience, often the things that appeal instantly are the things that are one-dimensional; the things that don't reveal themselves on first taste/hearing, often because they are complex, are the things that are the most satisfying in the long term.

    If you just like the simple things, fine - but to discount the world of complex flavours in good wine as "fruit juice that's gone off" is rather like dismissing Bach as "Vivaldi that's gone off". I'm fine with people who enjoy Vivaldi and not Bach, but generally they tend not to claim that their limited palate has a scientific basis.
    Music isn't, basically, a poison. I'm not disputing the fact that some wines taste better than others but what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable. I think the science behind what alcohol does is pretty clear.
    This is obviously nonsense.

    The water/alcohol ratio in a drink has a big impact on the flavours that are brought forward and sent back.

    Plus how it interacts with your tongue. It also a big amplifier of certain flavours and characteristics.
    Only if you're dependent (even mildly dependent) on the alcohol. Look up the science of what alcohol does if you don't believe me. Or keep telling yourself that you're sophisticated because you like certain drinks...

    This is a classic forum argument. Person A arguing about one thing, person B saying no, and responding about something completely different.

    The irony with this being on the current thread is that most people don't give a monkey's.
    Wehay. Fair, though in fairness to me, I and i like to be fair to myself, Nick did say this

    what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable
    which is obviously not right, and is a comment on the taste and flavour, rather than the effect on your brain.
    Isn't the point he's making that the alcohol is there purely for its effect rather than to add anything to the taste? I'm not sure many people really enjoy the taste of straight vodka which is why the vast majority mix it with something and even the vodka itself already has some other flavouring to it.

    The fact that, if I'm driving on a night out, I'll drink a soft drink of some kind rather than a non-alcoholic beer suggests he has a point in my case and whilst I enjoy a single malt and don't drink it to get smashed I don't think it would be a drink I would choose to keep me company on a cold night if it wasn't for the alcoholic effect. The exception might be something like a good wine with a meal, the taste seems to work better with food than a non-alcoholic drink as they tend to be too sweet. Also, having only tried gin for the first time a couple of years ago I would quite happily drink a G&T on a warm summer evening as a non-alcoholic drink as it's a refreshing taste (it could be mainly down to the tonic but having drunk tonic water on its own I don't like it).

    But not all ingredients are pleasant taste by themselves, but when mixed with others, the resulting flavour is what's pleasant (e.g., salt).
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • mr_goo
    mr_goo Posts: 3,770
    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    I completely disagree with this. If non-alcoholic beer tasted the same as the proper stuff, then I'd drink it as a preference. But the alcohol gives beer a kind of thickness, and really rounds the flavour (if you're not drinking some sh1te like Budweiser).
    That's the alcohol and the endorphins (NB not a neuroscientist) that are released when you drink.
    It's not. If you've never tasted a complex vintage red wine that's like a symphony unfolding on your taste buds with each taste, then that's your loss.
    I think I can deal with that. What do you think a person who's never drunk alcohol would think of that wine? Most likely that it tastes like fruit juice that's gone off (which, although, simplistic) is what alcohol is. I like wine and I like beer but I'm not deluded (not meant as a personal dig) enough to think it's not really about the effect. There are better or worse ways to deliver alcohol to your system, of course.

    In my experience, often the things that appeal instantly are the things that are one-dimensional; the things that don't reveal themselves on first taste/hearing, often because they are complex, are the things that are the most satisfying in the long term.

    If you just like the simple things, fine - but to discount the world of complex flavours in good wine as "fruit juice that's gone off" is rather like dismissing Bach as "Vivaldi that's gone off". I'm fine with people who enjoy Vivaldi and not Bach, but generally they tend not to claim that their limited palate has a scientific basis.
    Music isn't, basically, a poison. I'm not disputing the fact that some wines taste better than others but what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable. I think the science behind what alcohol does is pretty clear.
    This is obviously nonsense.

    The water/alcohol ratio in a drink has a big impact on the flavours that are brought forward and sent back.

    Plus how it interacts with your tongue. It also a big amplifier of certain flavours and characteristics.
    Only if you're dependent (even mildly dependent) on the alcohol. Look up the science of what alcohol does if you don't believe me. Or keep telling yourself that you're sophisticated because you like certain drinks...

    This is a classic forum argument. Person A arguing about one thing, person B saying no, and responding about something completely different.

    The irony with this being on the current thread is that most people don't give a monkey's.
    Wehay. Fair, though in fairness to me, I and i like to be fair to myself, Nick did say this

    what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable
    which is obviously not right, and is a comment on the taste and flavour, rather than the effect on your brain.
    Isn't the point he's making that the alcohol is there purely for its effect rather than to add anything to the taste? I'm not sure many people really enjoy the taste of straight vodka which is why the vast majority mix it with something and even the vodka itself already has some other flavouring to it.

    The fact that, if I'm driving on a night out, I'll drink a soft drink of some kind rather than a non-alcoholic beer suggests he has a point in my case and whilst I enjoy a single malt and don't drink it to get smashed I don't think it would be a drink I would choose to keep me company on a cold night if it wasn't for the alcoholic effect. The exception might be something like a good wine with a meal, the taste seems to work better with food than a non-alcoholic drink as they tend to be too sweet. Also, having only tried gin for the first time a couple of years ago I would quite happily drink a G&T on a warm summer evening as a non-alcoholic drink as it's a refreshing taste (it could be mainly down to the tonic but having drunk tonic water on its own I don't like it).
    Smirnoff Black neat from the freezer was quite drinkable. Like alcoholic syrup. Haven't seen the black label for years.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    I completely disagree with this. If non-alcoholic beer tasted the same as the proper stuff, then I'd drink it as a preference. But the alcohol gives beer a kind of thickness, and really rounds the flavour (if you're not drinking some sh1te like Budweiser).
    That's the alcohol and the endorphins (NB not a neuroscientist) that are released when you drink.
    It's not. If you've never tasted a complex vintage red wine that's like a symphony unfolding on your taste buds with each taste, then that's your loss.
    I think I can deal with that. What do you think a person who's never drunk alcohol would think of that wine? Most likely that it tastes like fruit juice that's gone off (which, although, simplistic) is what alcohol is. I like wine and I like beer but I'm not deluded (not meant as a personal dig) enough to think it's not really about the effect. There are better or worse ways to deliver alcohol to your system, of course.

    In my experience, often the things that appeal instantly are the things that are one-dimensional; the things that don't reveal themselves on first taste/hearing, often because they are complex, are the things that are the most satisfying in the long term.

    If you just like the simple things, fine - but to discount the world of complex flavours in good wine as "fruit juice that's gone off" is rather like dismissing Bach as "Vivaldi that's gone off". I'm fine with people who enjoy Vivaldi and not Bach, but generally they tend not to claim that their limited palate has a scientific basis.
    Music isn't, basically, a poison. I'm not disputing the fact that some wines taste better than others but what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable. I think the science behind what alcohol does is pretty clear.
    This is obviously nonsense.

    The water/alcohol ratio in a drink has a big impact on the flavours that are brought forward and sent back.

    Plus how it interacts with your tongue. It also a big amplifier of certain flavours and characteristics.
    Only if you're dependent (even mildly dependent) on the alcohol. Look up the science of what alcohol does if you don't believe me. Or keep telling yourself that you're sophisticated because you like certain drinks...

    This is a classic forum argument. Person A arguing about one thing, person B saying no, and responding about something completely different.

    The irony with this being on the current thread is that most people don't give a monkey's.
    Wehay. Fair, though in fairness to me, I and i like to be fair to myself, Nick did say this

    what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable
    which is obviously not right, and is a comment on the taste and flavour, rather than the effect on your brain.
    Isn't the point he's making that the alcohol is there purely for its effect rather than to add anything to the taste? I'm not sure many people really enjoy the taste of straight vodka which is why the vast majority mix it with something and even the vodka itself already has some other flavouring to it.
    Buy better vodka!

    _
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    Pross said:

    Isn't the point he's making that the alcohol is there purely for its effect rather than to add anything to the taste?

    I think that's what Nick is saying, but I disagree. And so would brewers. Not all double- and triple fermented beer is eye-wateringly strong in alcohol, but you can certainly taste that it's been double- or triple fermented in the brewing process.
    Ben

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  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,227
    briantrumpet said:

    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    I completely disagree with this. If non-alcoholic beer tasted the same as the proper stuff, then I'd drink it as a preference. But the alcohol gives beer a kind of thickness, and really rounds the flavour (if you're not drinking some sh1te like Budweiser).
    That's the alcohol and the endorphins (NB not a neuroscientist) that are released when you drink.
    It's not. If you've never tasted a complex vintage red wine that's like a symphony unfolding on your taste buds with each taste, then that's your loss.
    I think I can deal with that. What do you think a person who's never drunk alcohol would think of that wine? Most likely that it tastes like fruit juice that's gone off (which, although, simplistic) is what alcohol is. I like wine and I like beer but I'm not deluded (not meant as a personal dig) enough to think it's not really about the effect. There are better or worse ways to deliver alcohol to your system, of course.

    In my experience, often the things that appeal instantly are the things that are one-dimensional; the things that don't reveal themselves on first taste/hearing, often because they are complex, are the things that are the most satisfying in the long term.

    If you just like the simple things, fine - but to discount the world of complex flavours in good wine as "fruit juice that's gone off" is rather like dismissing Bach as "Vivaldi that's gone off". I'm fine with people who enjoy Vivaldi and not Bach, but generally they tend not to claim that their limited palate has a scientific basis.
    Music isn't, basically, a poison. I'm not disputing the fact that some wines taste better than others but what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable. I think the science behind what alcohol does is pretty clear.
    This is obviously nonsense.

    The water/alcohol ratio in a drink has a big impact on the flavours that are brought forward and sent back.

    Plus how it interacts with your tongue. It also a big amplifier of certain flavours and characteristics.
    Only if you're dependent (even mildly dependent) on the alcohol. Look up the science of what alcohol does if you don't believe me. Or keep telling yourself that you're sophisticated because you like certain drinks...

    This is a classic forum argument. Person A arguing about one thing, person B saying no, and responding about something completely different.

    The irony with this being on the current thread is that most people don't give a monkey's.
    Wehay. Fair, though in fairness to me, I and i like to be fair to myself, Nick did say this

    what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable
    which is obviously not right, and is a comment on the taste and flavour, rather than the effect on your brain.
    Isn't the point he's making that the alcohol is there purely for its effect rather than to add anything to the taste? I'm not sure many people really enjoy the taste of straight vodka which is why the vast majority mix it with something and even the vodka itself already has some other flavouring to it.

    The fact that, if I'm driving on a night out, I'll drink a soft drink of some kind rather than a non-alcoholic beer suggests he has a point in my case and whilst I enjoy a single malt and don't drink it to get smashed I don't think it would be a drink I would choose to keep me company on a cold night if it wasn't for the alcoholic effect. The exception might be something like a good wine with a meal, the taste seems to work better with food than a non-alcoholic drink as they tend to be too sweet. Also, having only tried gin for the first time a couple of years ago I would quite happily drink a G&T on a warm summer evening as a non-alcoholic drink as it's a refreshing taste (it could be mainly down to the tonic but having drunk tonic water on its own I don't like it).

    But not all ingredients are pleasant taste by themselves, but when mixed with others, the resulting flavour is what's pleasant (e.g., salt).
    Exactly so.

    I wouldn't want to consume any of raw ginger, a lime, angostura bitters or vodka on their own.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,379
    Vodka is an entirely different matter. It is a medicinal intended to assist people to tolerate Siberia. It gets cold there, right?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    First.Aspect said:

    Vodka is an entirely different matter. It is a medicinal intended to assist people to tolerate Siberia. It gets cold there, right?

    You do need it for a lot of great cocktails. But if you get decent enough vodka, you'll be able to enjoy drinking it straight. Like most spirits.
    _
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    I completely disagree with this. If non-alcoholic beer tasted the same as the proper stuff, then I'd drink it as a preference. But the alcohol gives beer a kind of thickness, and really rounds the flavour (if you're not drinking some sh1te like Budweiser).
    That's the alcohol and the endorphins (NB not a neuroscientist) that are released when you drink.
    It's not. If you've never tasted a complex vintage red wine that's like a symphony unfolding on your taste buds with each taste, then that's your loss.
    I think I can deal with that. What do you think a person who's never drunk alcohol would think of that wine? Most likely that it tastes like fruit juice that's gone off (which, although, simplistic) is what alcohol is. I like wine and I like beer but I'm not deluded (not meant as a personal dig) enough to think it's not really about the effect. There are better or worse ways to deliver alcohol to your system, of course.

    In my experience, often the things that appeal instantly are the things that are one-dimensional; the things that don't reveal themselves on first taste/hearing, often because they are complex, are the things that are the most satisfying in the long term.

    If you just like the simple things, fine - but to discount the world of complex flavours in good wine as "fruit juice that's gone off" is rather like dismissing Bach as "Vivaldi that's gone off". I'm fine with people who enjoy Vivaldi and not Bach, but generally they tend not to claim that their limited palate has a scientific basis.
    Music isn't, basically, a poison. I'm not disputing the fact that some wines taste better than others but what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable. I think the science behind what alcohol does is pretty clear.
    Some wines tastes better than others because wine is made from grapes, which amazingly vary greatly in quality.
    So, it's about fruit and nowt to do with making alcohol palatable.

    Red wine in moderation is considered beneficial to health, rather than a poison.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • harry-s
    harry-s Posts: 295
    New to the thread, but I think I’d agree with Nick, and call it “a reluctant truth”.
    After a nasty ‘off’ on the bike quite a few years ago and a TBI, I’m left with no sense of smell or taste. Nothing, not a hint, not a sausage. Oh god, I remember sausages….

    I liked a drink, and a nice pint, glass of wine or single malt was one of life’s pleasures. Now, water tastes like wine, which tastes like vodka, which taste like bleach (probably), in other words it all taste pretty much like distilled water, as I remember it.

    I still like drink, and there can be no other reason for that than for the alcohol buzz. No way would I think of drinking alcohol free beer. My drinking habits have evolved over the years, I used to love a real ale, now if I have a pint, it’s usually Budweiser, something I wouldn’t normally drink even if it was free. I went through a phase of neat spirits, after all it’s a very good delivery system, but now that’s pretty rare, mostly because it’s very easy to drink half a bottle in one go. With no taste, there’s no signals in my head to say “stop”. Obviously there's signals in my knees, eventually.

    Similar story with tea and coffee. Now it's mostly espresso.

    I think if someone had said to me before the injury, ‘would you give up booze if you couldn’t taste it?’, I’d have said yes, it’s all about the taste, obviously. But that hasn’t proven to be the case.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,486
    Seems to be a subject that a lot of people give f's about.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    blazing_saddles said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    I completely disagree with this. If non-alcoholic beer tasted the same as the proper stuff, then I'd drink it as a preference. But the alcohol gives beer a kind of thickness, and really rounds the flavour (if you're not drinking some sh1te like Budweiser).
    That's the alcohol and the endorphins (NB not a neuroscientist) that are released when you drink.
    It's not. If you've never tasted a complex vintage red wine that's like a symphony unfolding on your taste buds with each taste, then that's your loss.
    I think I can deal with that. What do you think a person who's never drunk alcohol would think of that wine? Most likely that it tastes like fruit juice that's gone off (which, although, simplistic) is what alcohol is. I like wine and I like beer but I'm not deluded (not meant as a personal dig) enough to think it's not really about the effect. There are better or worse ways to deliver alcohol to your system, of course.

    In my experience, often the things that appeal instantly are the things that are one-dimensional; the things that don't reveal themselves on first taste/hearing, often because they are complex, are the things that are the most satisfying in the long term.

    If you just like the simple things, fine - but to discount the world of complex flavours in good wine as "fruit juice that's gone off" is rather like dismissing Bach as "Vivaldi that's gone off". I'm fine with people who enjoy Vivaldi and not Bach, but generally they tend not to claim that their limited palate has a scientific basis.
    Music isn't, basically, a poison. I'm not disputing the fact that some wines taste better than others but what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable. I think the science behind what alcohol does is pretty clear.
    Some wines tastes better than others because wine is made from grapes, which amazingly vary greatly in quality.
    So, it's about fruit and nowt to do with making alcohol palatable.

    Red wine in moderation is considered beneficial to health, rather than a poison.

    Wine is made from fermented grapes and fruit can ferment on its own (basically it means the fruit is off). Yes, of course the quality of the grape can change how good the wine tastes IF you already have a taste for alcohol.

    The wine in moderation thing is hotly disputed especially when you consider you can get all the benefits from non-alcoholic drinks and there were questions about funding of some of the studies.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    briantrumpet said:

    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    I completely disagree with this. If non-alcoholic beer tasted the same as the proper stuff, then I'd drink it as a preference. But the alcohol gives beer a kind of thickness, and really rounds the flavour (if you're not drinking some sh1te like Budweiser).
    That's the alcohol and the endorphins (NB not a neuroscientist) that are released when you drink.
    It's not. If you've never tasted a complex vintage red wine that's like a symphony unfolding on your taste buds with each taste, then that's your loss.
    I think I can deal with that. What do you think a person who's never drunk alcohol would think of that wine? Most likely that it tastes like fruit juice that's gone off (which, although, simplistic) is what alcohol is. I like wine and I like beer but I'm not deluded (not meant as a personal dig) enough to think it's not really about the effect. There are better or worse ways to deliver alcohol to your system, of course.

    In my experience, often the things that appeal instantly are the things that are one-dimensional; the things that don't reveal themselves on first taste/hearing, often because they are complex, are the things that are the most satisfying in the long term.

    If you just like the simple things, fine - but to discount the world of complex flavours in good wine as "fruit juice that's gone off" is rather like dismissing Bach as "Vivaldi that's gone off". I'm fine with people who enjoy Vivaldi and not Bach, but generally they tend not to claim that their limited palate has a scientific basis.
    Music isn't, basically, a poison. I'm not disputing the fact that some wines taste better than others but what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable. I think the science behind what alcohol does is pretty clear.
    This is obviously nonsense.

    The water/alcohol ratio in a drink has a big impact on the flavours that are brought forward and sent back.

    Plus how it interacts with your tongue. It also a big amplifier of certain flavours and characteristics.
    Only if you're dependent (even mildly dependent) on the alcohol. Look up the science of what alcohol does if you don't believe me. Or keep telling yourself that you're sophisticated because you like certain drinks...

    This is a classic forum argument. Person A arguing about one thing, person B saying no, and responding about something completely different.

    The irony with this being on the current thread is that most people don't give a monkey's.
    Wehay. Fair, though in fairness to me, I and i like to be fair to myself, Nick did say this

    what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable
    which is obviously not right, and is a comment on the taste and flavour, rather than the effect on your brain.
    Isn't the point he's making that the alcohol is there purely for its effect rather than to add anything to the taste? I'm not sure many people really enjoy the taste of straight vodka which is why the vast majority mix it with something and even the vodka itself already has some other flavouring to it.

    The fact that, if I'm driving on a night out, I'll drink a soft drink of some kind rather than a non-alcoholic beer suggests he has a point in my case and whilst I enjoy a single malt and don't drink it to get smashed I don't think it would be a drink I would choose to keep me company on a cold night if it wasn't for the alcoholic effect. The exception might be something like a good wine with a meal, the taste seems to work better with food than a non-alcoholic drink as they tend to be too sweet. Also, having only tried gin for the first time a couple of years ago I would quite happily drink a G&T on a warm summer evening as a non-alcoholic drink as it's a refreshing taste (it could be mainly down to the tonic but having drunk tonic water on its own I don't like it).

    But not all ingredients are pleasant taste by themselves, but when mixed with others, the resulting flavour is what's pleasant (e.g., salt).
    A small amount of salt on its own tastes OK (especially if your body is short of it).
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    I completely disagree with this. If non-alcoholic beer tasted the same as the proper stuff, then I'd drink it as a preference. But the alcohol gives beer a kind of thickness, and really rounds the flavour (if you're not drinking some sh1te like Budweiser).
    That's the alcohol and the endorphins (NB not a neuroscientist) that are released when you drink.
    It's not. If you've never tasted a complex vintage red wine that's like a symphony unfolding on your taste buds with each taste, then that's your loss.
    I think I can deal with that. What do you think a person who's never drunk alcohol would think of that wine? Most likely that it tastes like fruit juice that's gone off (which, although, simplistic) is what alcohol is. I like wine and I like beer but I'm not deluded (not meant as a personal dig) enough to think it's not really about the effect. There are better or worse ways to deliver alcohol to your system, of course.

    In my experience, often the things that appeal instantly are the things that are one-dimensional; the things that don't reveal themselves on first taste/hearing, often because they are complex, are the things that are the most satisfying in the long term.

    If you just like the simple things, fine - but to discount the world of complex flavours in good wine as "fruit juice that's gone off" is rather like dismissing Bach as "Vivaldi that's gone off". I'm fine with people who enjoy Vivaldi and not Bach, but generally they tend not to claim that their limited palate has a scientific basis.
    Music isn't, basically, a poison. I'm not disputing the fact that some wines taste better than others but what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable. I think the science behind what alcohol does is pretty clear.
    This is obviously nonsense.

    The water/alcohol ratio in a drink has a big impact on the flavours that are brought forward and sent back.

    Plus how it interacts with your tongue. It also a big amplifier of certain flavours and characteristics.
    Only if you're dependent (even mildly dependent) on the alcohol. Look up the science of what alcohol does if you don't believe me. Or keep telling yourself that you're sophisticated because you like certain drinks...

    This is a classic forum argument. Person A arguing about one thing, person B saying no, and responding about something completely different.

    The irony with this being on the current thread is that most people don't give a monkey's.
    Wehay. Fair, though in fairness to me, I and i like to be fair to myself, Nick did say this

    what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable
    which is obviously not right, and is a comment on the taste and flavour, rather than the effect on your brain.
    Obviously not right? Try tasting pure ethanol. It's no accident that, especially with spirits, people add a mixer.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,025
    I sometimes wonder how many wine/food/beer/whatever experts would pass double blind tests. I know the results aren't good for audiophiles.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,227
    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    I completely disagree with this. If non-alcoholic beer tasted the same as the proper stuff, then I'd drink it as a preference. But the alcohol gives beer a kind of thickness, and really rounds the flavour (if you're not drinking some sh1te like Budweiser).
    That's the alcohol and the endorphins (NB not a neuroscientist) that are released when you drink.
    It's not. If you've never tasted a complex vintage red wine that's like a symphony unfolding on your taste buds with each taste, then that's your loss.
    I think I can deal with that. What do you think a person who's never drunk alcohol would think of that wine? Most likely that it tastes like fruit juice that's gone off (which, although, simplistic) is what alcohol is. I like wine and I like beer but I'm not deluded (not meant as a personal dig) enough to think it's not really about the effect. There are better or worse ways to deliver alcohol to your system, of course.

    In my experience, often the things that appeal instantly are the things that are one-dimensional; the things that don't reveal themselves on first taste/hearing, often because they are complex, are the things that are the most satisfying in the long term.

    If you just like the simple things, fine - but to discount the world of complex flavours in good wine as "fruit juice that's gone off" is rather like dismissing Bach as "Vivaldi that's gone off". I'm fine with people who enjoy Vivaldi and not Bach, but generally they tend not to claim that their limited palate has a scientific basis.
    Music isn't, basically, a poison. I'm not disputing the fact that some wines taste better than others but what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable. I think the science behind what alcohol does is pretty clear.
    This is obviously nonsense.

    The water/alcohol ratio in a drink has a big impact on the flavours that are brought forward and sent back.

    Plus how it interacts with your tongue. It also a big amplifier of certain flavours and characteristics.
    Only if you're dependent (even mildly dependent) on the alcohol. Look up the science of what alcohol does if you don't believe me. Or keep telling yourself that you're sophisticated because you like certain drinks...

    This is a classic forum argument. Person A arguing about one thing, person B saying no, and responding about something completely different.

    The irony with this being on the current thread is that most people don't give a monkey's.
    Wehay. Fair, though in fairness to me, I and i like to be fair to myself, Nick did say this

    what I am saying is that alcohol basically tastes horrible and the rest is just trying to make the alcohol palatable
    which is obviously not right, and is a comment on the taste and flavour, rather than the effect on your brain.
    Isn't the point he's making that the alcohol is there purely for its effect rather than to add anything to the taste? I'm not sure many people really enjoy the taste of straight vodka which is why the vast majority mix it with something and even the vodka itself already has some other flavouring to it.

    The fact that, if I'm driving on a night out, I'll drink a soft drink of some kind rather than a non-alcoholic beer suggests he has a point in my case and whilst I enjoy a single malt and don't drink it to get smashed I don't think it would be a drink I would choose to keep me company on a cold night if it wasn't for the alcoholic effect. The exception might be something like a good wine with a meal, the taste seems to work better with food than a non-alcoholic drink as they tend to be too sweet. Also, having only tried gin for the first time a couple of years ago I would quite happily drink a G&T on a warm summer evening as a non-alcoholic drink as it's a refreshing taste (it could be mainly down to the tonic but having drunk tonic water on its own I don't like it).

    But not all ingredients are pleasant taste by themselves, but when mixed with others, the resulting flavour is what's pleasant (e.g., salt).
    A small amount of salt on its own tastes OK (especially if your body is short of it).
    I'm sure you can think of a condiment that the principle works for.
  • shortfall
    shortfall Posts: 3,288
    Alcohol free beer tastes like sh-it though. Becks Blue is tolerable I suppose but so is a root canal, and is there anything better at quenching your thirst than a cold one straight out of the fridge? It's not like you have to have another 6 for the effects in order to enjoy it, although obviously that has it's merits sometimes.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    Ben6899 said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:



    I'm in the 'can't be too fussed about coffee' camp. Have a cup it two of instant with milk every day. .

    Oh mate.

    Appalling behaviour.

    There's not being fussed about coffee and there's outing yourself as someone with appalling taste.
    Coffee tastes bad. The world has deluded itself.
    As does alcohol. I don't think anyone ever thought their first coffee or pint of lager tasted amazing. Much is done to actually disguise the taste (especially with alcohol)
    Ahaha you softie.

    Booze changes the flavour make up of drinks to highlight different flavours over others. It acts like a solvent for smells and flavours.
    It still amazes me that people think they're drinking alcohol for the taste and not the effect. Yes you can enjoy certain drinks but without the effect people would only ever drink the ones where you can't taste the alcohol.
    I completely disagree with this. If non-alcoholic beer tasted the same as the proper stuff, then I'd drink it as a preference. But the alcohol gives beer a kind of thickness, and really rounds the flavour (if you're not drinking some sh1te like Budweiser).
    That's the alcohol and the endorphins (NB not a neuroscientist) that are released when you drink.
    It's not just the neurological effect of alcohol and endorphins; the process of getting a certain weight of alcohol into a drink affects the taste of the drink itself. In a way which appeals to me and others.

    I actually really enjoyed my first drink of alcohol, which was a can of lager camping on a family holiday.
    You don't think that the endorphins trick you into thinking this..

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