Edward Colston/Trans rights/Stamp collecting

Pross

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

The point I am making is how people see a name of a road, pub, priory etc and the knee jerk response is to get all offended, usually on behalf of someone else, without knowing the provenance of the name.

Who's offended exactly? You seem to be belittling something that didn't actually happen, which is odd.

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

The point I am making is how people see a name of a road, pub, priory etc and the knee jerk response is to get all offended, usually on behalf of someone else, without knowing the provenance of the name.

Who's offended exactly? You seem to be belittling something that didn't actually happen, which is odd.

Didn't Bally's comment originally stem from someone mentioning Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road? In which case there's

https://www.change.org/p/bristol-city-council-change-the-name-of-whiteladies-road-and-blackboy-hill

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-street-names-susanna-reid-4206774.amp

There are suggestions the names aren't linked to the slave trade at all with Whiteladies Road possibly be linked to the colour of habits worn by Carmelite nuns based there and Blackboy Hill being simply unknown.

pangolin

Think the hill was named after a pub? It was demolished to widen the road. See below. Not sure though.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/2080657598

Also think the white habit thing is a myth. And the Bristol post is as far from a reputable source as you could get!

Pross

pangolin said:

Think the hill was named after a pub? It was demolished to widen the road. See below. Not sure though.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/2080657598

Also think the white habit thing is a myth. And the Bristol post is as far from a reputable source as you could get!

Yeah but it was one of several sources I found saying the same things.

I can remember in my days working in Bristol hearing several calls for the roads to be renamed though.

Does anyone know the background to the Labour in Vain pub signs? I recall there being one near me and thinking it had just been one off bad taste but it seems a common theme for signs on pubs with the same name so I assume there is some historical reference to them. Bizarrely there were still some in use a few years ago.

secretsam

Pross said:

Didn't Bally's comment originally stem from someone mentioning Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road?

It was me, trying to wind up the statue nonces

Pross said:

There are suggestions the names aren't linked to the slave trade at all with Whiteladies Road possibly be linked to the colour of habits worn by Carmelite nuns based there and Blackboy Hill being simply unknown.

TBH, I'm not sure anyone knows. After the whole Colston thing, Bristol's had its occasional bit of bother, and will now go back to being quietly anonymous and lush.

One thing I do wonder, was Muller Rd renamed during the war, given that Muller is a German name?

rjsterry

Pross said:

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

The point I am making is how people see a name of a road, pub, priory etc and the knee jerk response is to get all offended, usually on behalf of someone else, without knowing the provenance of the name.

Who's offended exactly? You seem to be belittling something that didn't actually happen, which is odd.

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

The point I am making is how people see a name of a road, pub, priory etc and the knee jerk response is to get all offended, usually on behalf of someone else, without knowing the provenance of the name.

Who's offended exactly? You seem to be belittling something that didn't actually happen, which is odd.

Didn't Bally's comment originally stem from someone mentioning Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road? In which case there's

https://www.change.org/p/bristol-city-council-change-the-name-of-whiteladies-road-and-blackboy-hill

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-street-names-susanna-reid-4206774.amp

There are suggestions the names aren't linked to the slave trade at all with Whiteladies Road possibly be linked to the colour of habits worn by Carmelite nuns based there and Blackboy Hill being simply unknown.

It was the assumption of offence that I was taking issue with. I don't think it's about being offended but rather people having some say in what is/isn't commemorated in their city and a better understanding of history.

The fuss about Whiteladies Road and Blackboy Hill illustrates how far off people's grasp of history is if they think those two (questionable) examples are the only reference to the slave trade in Bristol.

briantrumpet

secretsam said:

Pross said:

Didn't Bally's comment originally stem from someone mentioning Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road?

It was me, trying to wind up the statue nonces

Pross said:

There are suggestions the names aren't linked to the slave trade at all with Whiteladies Road possibly be linked to the colour of habits worn by Carmelite nuns based there and Blackboy Hill being simply unknown.

TBH, I'm not sure anyone knows. After the whole Colston thing, Bristol's had its occasional bit of bother, and will now go back to being quietly anonymous and lush.

One thing I do wonder, was Muller Rd renamed during the war, given that Muller is a German name?

Which war?

"The New Orphan Houses, Ashley Down, commonly known as the Muller Homes, were an orphanage in the district of Ashley Down, in the north of Bristol. They were built between 1849 and 1870 by the Prussian evangelist George Müller to show the world that God not only heard, but answered, prayer."

rjsterry

Pross said:

pangolin said:

Think the hill was named after a pub? It was demolished to widen the road. See below. Not sure though.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/2080657598

Also think the white habit thing is a myth. And the Bristol post is as far from a reputable source as you could get!

Yeah but it was one of several sources I found saying the same things.

I can remember in my days working in Bristol hearing several calls for the roads to be renamed though.

Does anyone know the background to the Labour in Vain pub signs? I recall there being one near me and thinking it had just been one off bad taste but it seems a common theme for signs on pubs with the same name so I assume there is some historical reference to them. Bizarrely there were still some in use a few years ago.

It's a Quote from the Bible

Psalm 127:

Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

I think the pub signs were a sort of visual 'joke', but the meaning is somewhat lost.

rjsterry

briantrumpet said:

secretsam said:

Pross said:

Didn't Bally's comment originally stem from someone mentioning Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road?

It was me, trying to wind up the statue nonces

Pross said:

There are suggestions the names aren't linked to the slave trade at all with Whiteladies Road possibly be linked to the colour of habits worn by Carmelite nuns based there and Blackboy Hill being simply unknown.

TBH, I'm not sure anyone knows. After the whole Colston thing, Bristol's had its occasional bit of bother, and will now go back to being quietly anonymous and lush.

One thing I do wonder, was Muller Rd renamed during the war, given that Muller is a German name?

Which war?

"The New Orphan Houses, Ashley Down, commonly known as the Muller Homes, were an orphanage in the district of Ashley Down, in the north of Bristol. They were built between 1849 and 1870 by the Prussian evangelist George Müller to show the world that God not only heard, but answered, prayer."

I think that's just a Bristle pronunciation of Müller.

Pross

rjsterry said:

Pross said:

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

The point I am making is how people see a name of a road, pub, priory etc and the knee jerk response is to get all offended, usually on behalf of someone else, without knowing the provenance of the name.

Who's offended exactly? You seem to be belittling something that didn't actually happen, which is odd.

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

The point I am making is how people see a name of a road, pub, priory etc and the knee jerk response is to get all offended, usually on behalf of someone else, without knowing the provenance of the name.

Who's offended exactly? You seem to be belittling something that didn't actually happen, which is odd.

Didn't Bally's comment originally stem from someone mentioning Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road? In which case there's

https://www.change.org/p/bristol-city-council-change-the-name-of-whiteladies-road-and-blackboy-hill

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-street-names-susanna-reid-4206774.amp

There are suggestions the names aren't linked to the slave trade at all with Whiteladies Road possibly be linked to the colour of habits worn by Carmelite nuns based there and Blackboy Hill being simply unknown.

It was the assumption of offence that I was taking issue with. I don't think it's about being offended but rather people having some say in what is/isn't commemorated in their city and a better understanding of history.

The fuss about Whiteladies Road and Blackboy Hill illustrates how far off people's grasp of history is if they think those two (questionable) examples are the only reference to the slave trade in Bristol.

I think the person who started that petition to have them renamed was displaying signs of offence, the same with Reid commenting about her thoughts on them (but she was probably setting Piers up for a rant about "snowflakes").

secretsam

briantrumpet said:

secretsam said:

Pross said:

Didn't Bally's comment originally stem from someone mentioning Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road?

It was me, trying to wind up the statue nonces

Pross said:

There are suggestions the names aren't linked to the slave trade at all with Whiteladies Road possibly be linked to the colour of habits worn by Carmelite nuns based there and Blackboy Hill being simply unknown.

TBH, I'm not sure anyone knows. After the whole Colston thing, Bristol's had its occasional bit of bother, and will now go back to being quietly anonymous and lush.

One thing I do wonder, was Muller Rd renamed during the war, given that Muller is a German name?

Which war?

"The New Orphan Houses, Ashley Down, commonly known as the Muller Homes, were an orphanage in the district of Ashley Down, in the north of Bristol. They were built between 1849 and 1870 by the Prussian evangelist George Müller to show the world that God not only heard, but answered, prayer."

That's today's new thing learned, then! Thanks.

rjsterry

Pross said:

rjsterry said:

Pross said:

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

The point I am making is how people see a name of a road, pub, priory etc and the knee jerk response is to get all offended, usually on behalf of someone else, without knowing the provenance of the name.

Who's offended exactly? You seem to be belittling something that didn't actually happen, which is odd.

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

The point I am making is how people see a name of a road, pub, priory etc and the knee jerk response is to get all offended, usually on behalf of someone else, without knowing the provenance of the name.

Who's offended exactly? You seem to be belittling something that didn't actually happen, which is odd.

Didn't Bally's comment originally stem from someone mentioning Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road? In which case there's

https://www.change.org/p/bristol-city-council-change-the-name-of-whiteladies-road-and-blackboy-hill

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-street-names-susanna-reid-4206774.amp

There are suggestions the names aren't linked to the slave trade at all with Whiteladies Road possibly be linked to the colour of habits worn by Carmelite nuns based there and Blackboy Hill being simply unknown.

It was the assumption of offence that I was taking issue with. I don't think it's about being offended but rather people having some say in what is/isn't commemorated in their city and a better understanding of history.

The fuss about Whiteladies Road and Blackboy Hill illustrates how far off people's grasp of history is if they think those two (questionable) examples are the only reference to the slave trade in Bristol.

I think the person who started that petition to have them renamed was displaying signs of offence, the same with Reid commenting about her thoughts on them (but she was probably setting Piers up for a rant about "snowflakes").

I think Reid and the person who started the petition were just showing their ignorance if they thought those were the only two reminders of the slave trade in a port city like Bristol. Jamaica Street and Guinea Street definitely do owe their names to the slave trade. Where do people think the Wills family got their money from?

DeVlaeminck

Pross said:

pangolin said:

Think the hill was named after a pub? It was demolished to widen the road. See below. Not sure though.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/2080657598

Also think the white habit thing is a myth. And the Bristol post is as far from a reputable source as you could get!

Yeah but it was one of several sources I found saying the same things.

I can remember in my days working in Bristol hearing several calls for the roads to be renamed though.

Does anyone know the background to the Labour in Vain pub signs? I recall there being one near me and thinking it had just been one off bad taste but it seems a common theme for signs on pubs with the same name so I assume there is some historical reference to them. Bizarrely there were still some in use a few years ago.

Yes I saw one somewhere maybe 25 decades ago - some town near Brum I think - even then I was surprised it was still there.

It is odd how that is or was the standard sign for that pub name. I didn't realise until your post and googling it.

Jezyboy

Classic woke left wing cancel culture:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-56447347

Or not.

briantrumpet

Jezyboy said:

Classic woke left wing cancel culture:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-56447347

Or not.

I'm surprised he didn't suggest burning the report. Or maybe he thinks that just shredding history isn't as offensive.

rjsterry

It's like some sort of reverse Basil Fawlty.

"I did mention the slave trade once, but I think I got away with it."

kingstongraham

Outrageous waste of money for Historic England to do a report into the history of England.

rick_chasey

"Of course slavery was awful and of course it was right we abolished it, but I am not sure we need to go through this kind of comprehensive report linking tangentially all kinds of places and buildings to that effort."

Why not?

briantrumpet

kingstongraham said:

Outrageous waste of money for Historic England to do a report into the history of England.

And to think the same money could have cleaned the moats of seven MPs and built a duck house.

elbowloh

kingstongraham said:

Outrageous waste of money for Historic England to do a report into the history of England.

Let it go, it's all in the past...

webboo

Don’t they still have slavery on some of those farms in Lincolnshire what with those gang masters and the like.

orraloon

webboo said:

Don’t they still have slavery on some of those farms in Lincolnshire what with those gang masters and the like.

Ssshhh! Look, look over there, a unicorn...

david37

secretsam said:

david37 said:

rick_chasey said:

I don't get the point you're making. Who has beef with the name?

Secretsam but he's happy to throw names like nonce around ------- does not compute

No one else seems to care. Are you being a snowflake?

no im wondering about the irony of Seretsam calling people nonce and whining about trolling when in fact you are all of those things.

orraloon

Botster. You're pushing it again. How many alter egos have you banked?

And no, wisnae me on the shagflagging

john80

Oh oh. This investigation must be staffed with racists just trying to keep the BAME down. Apologies we should not be using BAME anymore.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56585538

kingstongraham

john80 said:

Oh oh. This investigation must be staffed with racists just trying to keep the BAME down. Apologies we should not be using BAME anymore.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56585538

Consider yourself "news managed".

This is a news report about a report that has not yet been published.

Dorset_Boy

kingstongraham said:

john80 said:

Oh oh. This investigation must be staffed with racists just trying to keep the BAME down. Apologies we should not be using BAME anymore.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56585538

Consider yourself "news managed".

This is a news report about a report that has not yet been published.

But aren't the contents of all such reports leaked to the press ahead of the publiciation these days?
(I've not read the article btw)

kingstongraham

Dorset_Boy said:

kingstongraham said:

john80 said:

Oh oh. This investigation must be staffed with racists just trying to keep the BAME down. Apologies we should not be using BAME anymore.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56585538

Consider yourself "news managed".

This is a news report about a report that has not yet been published.

But aren't the contents of all such reports leaked to the press ahead of the publiciation these days?
(I've not read the article btw)

This wasn't a leak, it was an official precis released yesterday with an embargo on it, so news organisations were not allowed to ask for reactions (to the precis) before this morning.

rjsterry

All so deadeningly predictable. Conservatives know they are generally less trusted than Labour on race issues so commission a report to say 'it's not as bad as all that, and some poor white kids are disadvantaged, too'. This appeals to their core vote who already think its a lot of fuss about nothing, while pushing Labour into denying things have improved over the last few decades, when they patently have. Very little of it is about actually resolving the significant issues which remain. It's just party political point scoring.

DeVlaeminck

Having scanned the precis I'm glad this report has come out - OK it aligns with my existing views so I would be. It's not denying that racism exists, it's not denying that inequalities exist, it does deny that racism is a main driver of those inequalities.

rick_chasey

^^ wot rjs said.