Edward Colston/Trans rights/Stamp collecting

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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    rjsterry said:

    ballysmate said:

    The point I am making is how people see a name of a road, pub, priory etc and the knee jerk response is to get all offended, usually on behalf of someone else, without knowing the provenance of the name.

    Who's offended exactly? You seem to be belittling something that didn't actually happen, which is odd.
    rjsterry said:

    ballysmate said:

    The point I am making is how people see a name of a road, pub, priory etc and the knee jerk response is to get all offended, usually on behalf of someone else, without knowing the provenance of the name.

    Who's offended exactly? You seem to be belittling something that didn't actually happen, which is odd.
    Didn't Bally's comment originally stem from someone mentioning Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road? In which case there's

    https://www.change.org/p/bristol-city-council-change-the-name-of-whiteladies-road-and-blackboy-hill

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-street-names-susanna-reid-4206774.amp

    There are suggestions the names aren't linked to the slave trade at all with Whiteladies Road possibly be linked to the colour of habits worn by Carmelite nuns based there and Blackboy Hill being simply unknown.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648
    Think the hill was named after a pub? It was demolished to widen the road. See below. Not sure though.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/2080657598

    Also think the white habit thing is a myth. And the Bristol post is as far from a reputable source as you could get!
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    pangolin said:

    Think the hill was named after a pub? It was demolished to widen the road. See below. Not sure though.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/2080657598

    Also think the white habit thing is a myth. And the Bristol post is as far from a reputable source as you could get!

    Yeah but it was one of several sources I found saying the same things.

    I can remember in my days working in Bristol hearing several calls for the roads to be renamed though.

    Does anyone know the background to the Labour in Vain pub signs? I recall there being one near me and thinking it had just been one off bad taste but it seems a common theme for signs on pubs with the same name so I assume there is some historical reference to them. Bizarrely there were still some in use a few years ago.

  • secretsam
    secretsam Posts: 5,120
    Pross said:

    Didn't Bally's comment originally stem from someone mentioning Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road?

    It was me, trying to wind up the statue nonces
    Pross said:

    There are suggestions the names aren't linked to the slave trade at all with Whiteladies Road possibly be linked to the colour of habits worn by Carmelite nuns based there and Blackboy Hill being simply unknown.

    TBH, I'm not sure anyone knows. After the whole Colston thing, Bristol's had its occasional bit of bother, and will now go back to being quietly anonymous and lush.

    One thing I do wonder, was Muller Rd renamed during the war, given that Muller is a German name?

    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,553
    edited March 2021
    Pross said:

    rjsterry said:

    ballysmate said:

    The point I am making is how people see a name of a road, pub, priory etc and the knee jerk response is to get all offended, usually on behalf of someone else, without knowing the provenance of the name.

    Who's offended exactly? You seem to be belittling something that didn't actually happen, which is odd.
    rjsterry said:

    ballysmate said:

    The point I am making is how people see a name of a road, pub, priory etc and the knee jerk response is to get all offended, usually on behalf of someone else, without knowing the provenance of the name.

    Who's offended exactly? You seem to be belittling something that didn't actually happen, which is odd.
    Didn't Bally's comment originally stem from someone mentioning Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road? In which case there's

    https://www.change.org/p/bristol-city-council-change-the-name-of-whiteladies-road-and-blackboy-hill

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-street-names-susanna-reid-4206774.amp

    There are suggestions the names aren't linked to the slave trade at all with Whiteladies Road possibly be linked to the colour of habits worn by Carmelite nuns based there and Blackboy Hill being simply unknown.
    It was the assumption of offence that I was taking issue with. I don't think it's about being offended but rather people having some say in what is/isn't commemorated in their city and a better understanding of history.

    The fuss about Whiteladies Road and Blackboy Hill illustrates how far off people's grasp of history is if they think those two (questionable) examples are the only reference to the slave trade in Bristol.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    secretsam said:

    Pross said:

    Didn't Bally's comment originally stem from someone mentioning Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road?

    It was me, trying to wind up the statue nonces
    Pross said:

    There are suggestions the names aren't linked to the slave trade at all with Whiteladies Road possibly be linked to the colour of habits worn by Carmelite nuns based there and Blackboy Hill being simply unknown.

    TBH, I'm not sure anyone knows. After the whole Colston thing, Bristol's had its occasional bit of bother, and will now go back to being quietly anonymous and lush.

    One thing I do wonder, was Muller Rd renamed during the war, given that Muller is a German name?


    Which war?

    "The New Orphan Houses, Ashley Down, commonly known as the Muller Homes, were an orphanage in the district of Ashley Down, in the north of Bristol. They were built between 1849 and 1870 by the Prussian evangelist George Müller to show the world that God not only heard, but answered, prayer."
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,553
    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Think the hill was named after a pub? It was demolished to widen the road. See below. Not sure though.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/2080657598

    Also think the white habit thing is a myth. And the Bristol post is as far from a reputable source as you could get!

    Yeah but it was one of several sources I found saying the same things.

    I can remember in my days working in Bristol hearing several calls for the roads to be renamed though.

    Does anyone know the background to the Labour in Vain pub signs? I recall there being one near me and thinking it had just been one off bad taste but it seems a common theme for signs on pubs with the same name so I assume there is some historical reference to them. Bizarrely there were still some in use a few years ago.

    It's a Quote from the Bible

    Psalm 127:

    Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

    I think the pub signs were a sort of visual 'joke', but the meaning is somewhat lost.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,553
    briantrumpet said:

    secretsam said:

    Pross said:

    Didn't Bally's comment originally stem from someone mentioning Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road?

    It was me, trying to wind up the statue nonces
    Pross said:

    There are suggestions the names aren't linked to the slave trade at all with Whiteladies Road possibly be linked to the colour of habits worn by Carmelite nuns based there and Blackboy Hill being simply unknown.

    TBH, I'm not sure anyone knows. After the whole Colston thing, Bristol's had its occasional bit of bother, and will now go back to being quietly anonymous and lush.

    One thing I do wonder, was Muller Rd renamed during the war, given that Muller is a German name?


    Which war?

    "The New Orphan Houses, Ashley Down, commonly known as the Muller Homes, were an orphanage in the district of Ashley Down, in the north of Bristol. They were built between 1849 and 1870 by the Prussian evangelist George Müller to show the world that God not only heard, but answered, prayer."
    I think that's just a Bristle pronunciation of Müller.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    rjsterry said:

    Pross said:

    rjsterry said:

    ballysmate said:

    The point I am making is how people see a name of a road, pub, priory etc and the knee jerk response is to get all offended, usually on behalf of someone else, without knowing the provenance of the name.

    Who's offended exactly? You seem to be belittling something that didn't actually happen, which is odd.
    rjsterry said:

    ballysmate said:

    The point I am making is how people see a name of a road, pub, priory etc and the knee jerk response is to get all offended, usually on behalf of someone else, without knowing the provenance of the name.

    Who's offended exactly? You seem to be belittling something that didn't actually happen, which is odd.
    Didn't Bally's comment originally stem from someone mentioning Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road? In which case there's

    https://www.change.org/p/bristol-city-council-change-the-name-of-whiteladies-road-and-blackboy-hill

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-street-names-susanna-reid-4206774.amp

    There are suggestions the names aren't linked to the slave trade at all with Whiteladies Road possibly be linked to the colour of habits worn by Carmelite nuns based there and Blackboy Hill being simply unknown.
    It was the assumption of offence that I was taking issue with. I don't think it's about being offended but rather people having some say in what is/isn't commemorated in their city and a better understanding of history.

    The fuss about Whiteladies Road and Blackboy Hill illustrates how far off people's grasp of history is if they think those two (questionable) examples are the only reference to the slave trade in Bristol.
    I think the person who started that petition to have them renamed was displaying signs of offence, the same with Reid commenting about her thoughts on them (but she was probably setting Piers up for a rant about "snowflakes").
  • secretsam
    secretsam Posts: 5,120
    briantrumpet said:

    secretsam said:

    Pross said:

    Didn't Bally's comment originally stem from someone mentioning Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road?

    It was me, trying to wind up the statue nonces
    Pross said:

    There are suggestions the names aren't linked to the slave trade at all with Whiteladies Road possibly be linked to the colour of habits worn by Carmelite nuns based there and Blackboy Hill being simply unknown.

    TBH, I'm not sure anyone knows. After the whole Colston thing, Bristol's had its occasional bit of bother, and will now go back to being quietly anonymous and lush.

    One thing I do wonder, was Muller Rd renamed during the war, given that Muller is a German name?


    Which war?

    "The New Orphan Houses, Ashley Down, commonly known as the Muller Homes, were an orphanage in the district of Ashley Down, in the north of Bristol. They were built between 1849 and 1870 by the Prussian evangelist George Müller to show the world that God not only heard, but answered, prayer."
    That's today's new thing learned, then! Thanks.
    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,553
    Pross said:

    rjsterry said:

    Pross said:

    rjsterry said:

    ballysmate said:

    The point I am making is how people see a name of a road, pub, priory etc and the knee jerk response is to get all offended, usually on behalf of someone else, without knowing the provenance of the name.

    Who's offended exactly? You seem to be belittling something that didn't actually happen, which is odd.
    rjsterry said:

    ballysmate said:

    The point I am making is how people see a name of a road, pub, priory etc and the knee jerk response is to get all offended, usually on behalf of someone else, without knowing the provenance of the name.

    Who's offended exactly? You seem to be belittling something that didn't actually happen, which is odd.
    Didn't Bally's comment originally stem from someone mentioning Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road? In which case there's

    https://www.change.org/p/bristol-city-council-change-the-name-of-whiteladies-road-and-blackboy-hill

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-street-names-susanna-reid-4206774.amp

    There are suggestions the names aren't linked to the slave trade at all with Whiteladies Road possibly be linked to the colour of habits worn by Carmelite nuns based there and Blackboy Hill being simply unknown.
    It was the assumption of offence that I was taking issue with. I don't think it's about being offended but rather people having some say in what is/isn't commemorated in their city and a better understanding of history.

    The fuss about Whiteladies Road and Blackboy Hill illustrates how far off people's grasp of history is if they think those two (questionable) examples are the only reference to the slave trade in Bristol.
    I think the person who started that petition to have them renamed was displaying signs of offence, the same with Reid commenting about her thoughts on them (but she was probably setting Piers up for a rant about "snowflakes").
    I think Reid and the person who started the petition were just showing their ignorance if they thought those were the only two reminders of the slave trade in a port city like Bristol. Jamaica Street and Guinea Street definitely do owe their names to the slave trade. Where do people think the Wills family got their money from?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Think the hill was named after a pub? It was demolished to widen the road. See below. Not sure though.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/2080657598

    Also think the white habit thing is a myth. And the Bristol post is as far from a reputable source as you could get!

    Yeah but it was one of several sources I found saying the same things.

    I can remember in my days working in Bristol hearing several calls for the roads to be renamed though.

    Does anyone know the background to the Labour in Vain pub signs? I recall there being one near me and thinking it had just been one off bad taste but it seems a common theme for signs on pubs with the same name so I assume there is some historical reference to them. Bizarrely there were still some in use a few years ago.

    Yes I saw one somewhere maybe 25 decades ago - some town near Brum I think - even then I was surprised it was still there.

    It is odd how that is or was the standard sign for that pub name. I didn't realise until your post and googling it.



    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,605
    Classic woke left wing cancel culture:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-56447347

    Or not.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    Jezyboy said:

    Classic woke left wing cancel culture:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-56447347

    Or not.


    I'm surprised he didn't suggest burning the report. Or maybe he thinks that just shredding history isn't as offensive.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,553
    It's like some sort of reverse Basil Fawlty.

    "I did mention the slave trade once, but I think I got away with it."
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Outrageous waste of money for Historic England to do a report into the history of England.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    "Of course slavery was awful and of course it was right we abolished it, but I am not sure we need to go through this kind of comprehensive report linking tangentially all kinds of places and buildings to that effort."

    Why not?
    _
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    kingstongraham said:

    Outrageous waste of money for Historic England to do a report into the history of England.


    And to think the same money could have cleaned the moats of seven MPs and built a duck house.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    kingstongraham said:

    Outrageous waste of money for Historic England to do a report into the history of England.

    Let it go, it's all in the past...
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    Don’t they still have slavery on some of those farms in Lincolnshire what with those gang masters and the like.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,227
    webboo said:

    Don’t they still have slavery on some of those farms in Lincolnshire what with those gang masters and the like.

    Ssshhh! Look, look over there, a unicorn...
  • david37
    david37 Posts: 1,313
    secretsam said:

    david37 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    I don't get the point you're making. Who has beef with the name?

    Secretsam but he's happy to throw names like nonce around ------- does not compute
    No one else seems to care. Are you being a snowflake?
    no im wondering about the irony of Seretsam calling people nonce and whining about trolling when in fact you are all of those things.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,227
    Botster. You're pushing it again. How many alter egos have you banked?

    And no, wisnae me on the shagflagging
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    Oh oh. This investigation must be staffed with racists just trying to keep the BAME down. Apologies we should not be using BAME anymore.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56585538
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    john80 said:

    Oh oh. This investigation must be staffed with racists just trying to keep the BAME down. Apologies we should not be using BAME anymore.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56585538

    Consider yourself "news managed".

    This is a news report about a report that has not yet been published.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,559
    kingstongraham said:

    john80 said:

    Oh oh. This investigation must be staffed with racists just trying to keep the BAME down. Apologies we should not be using BAME anymore.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56585538

    Consider yourself "news managed".

    This is a news report about a report that has not yet been published.
    But aren't the contents of all such reports leaked to the press ahead of the publiciation these days?
    (I've not read the article btw)
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Dorset_Boy said:

    kingstongraham said:

    john80 said:

    Oh oh. This investigation must be staffed with racists just trying to keep the BAME down. Apologies we should not be using BAME anymore.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56585538

    Consider yourself "news managed".

    This is a news report about a report that has not yet been published.
    But aren't the contents of all such reports leaked to the press ahead of the publiciation these days?
    (I've not read the article btw)
    This wasn't a leak, it was an official precis released yesterday with an embargo on it, so news organisations were not allowed to ask for reactions (to the precis) before this morning.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,553
    All so deadeningly predictable. Conservatives know they are generally less trusted than Labour on race issues so commission a report to say 'it's not as bad as all that, and some poor white kids are disadvantaged, too'. This appeals to their core vote who already think its a lot of fuss about nothing, while pushing Labour into denying things have improved over the last few decades, when they patently have. Very little of it is about actually resolving the significant issues which remain. It's just party political point scoring.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    Having scanned the precis I'm glad this report has come out - OK it aligns with my existing views so I would be. It's not denying that racism exists, it's not denying that inequalities exist, it does deny that racism is a main driver of those inequalities.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    ^^ wot rjs said.
    _

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