Trek Emonda 2021

k3vinjam3s

I was looking at the new treks but lack of rim braked versions really frustrated me. I dont have a disc braked bike and want to stay with rim brakes as to not have to buy more wheelelsets. And for the record im a 100kg rider thats never had a problem with rim brakes.

Settled on a cannondale supersix evo 2020 in the rim braked variety.

Its quite unsettling that if this pregression to discs continue ill be struggling for new wheels or brakes in a few years.

Ugo, you can call me fat all you like also.

ugo.santalucia

k3vinjam3s said:

I was looking at the new treks but lack of rim braked versions really frustrated me. I dont have a disc braked bike and want to stay with rim brakes as to not have to buy more wheelelsets. And for the record im a 100kg rider thats never had a problem with rim brakes.

Settled on a cannondale supersix evo 2020 in the rim braked variety.

Its quite unsettling that if this pregression to discs continue ill be struggling for new wheels or brakes in a few years.

Ugo, you can call me fat all you like also.

Same boat... once the pandemic is past, if I still have a job, I could be on the market with a budget of 2-2.5 grand for something a little racier and lighter than my current Dolan, which with average components weighs around 8 kg. The options are frankly depressing

siddy1972

The thing I don’t really get about this is that there’s obviously quite a few of us that really don’t want discs, as we (rightly or wrongly) just don’t perceive a benefit, actually the opposite.
You’d think the big manufacturers would have detected this by now and thought that sticking with both options may be a good idea.
Or is it that they don’t want our hard earned money anymore?
What am I missing here?

bobmcstuff

I'm 70kg... never had a problem stopping on rim brakes either but it is annoying having to replace wheels/rims because the rim has worn out. And I prefer the wet weather performance of discs (although having ridden rim brake bikes in the wet for years I do appreciate it's not essential).

I think if I'd spent several thousand pounds on some fancy carbon rims I would be pretty keen to not have to junk them. Unless they were just for racing I guess.

I think you'll be able to get spares for rim brakes for some time yet. 9speed spares are still available.

zest28

Besides rim brakes wearing out expensive carbon wheels, rim brakes is out dated and it is limiting the bike. Take a gravel bike for example. I have the following setups for my gravel bike:
- 25mm road tyres
- 40mm gravel tyres
- MTB tyres.

This is impossible with with rim brakes.

The new Trek Domane can fit up to 38mm tyres thanks to disc brakes so it will be very good in races such as Paris Roubaix, far superior to rim brake bikes with skinny tyres (in some sections of this race, even a MTB is faster than a road bike).

mrb123

siddy1972 said:

The thing I don’t really get about this is that there’s obviously quite a few of us that really don’t want discs, as we (rightly or wrongly) just don’t perceive a benefit, actually the opposite.
You’d think the big manufacturers would have detected this by now and thought that sticking with both options may be a good idea.
Or is it that they don’t want our hard earned money anymore?
What am I missing here?

Because you've all already got decent rim braked bikes so the only way they can sell you another one is to render them obsolete and convince you there is something better to be had.

shortfall

zest28 said:

Besides rim brakes wearing out expensive carbon wheels, rim brakes is out dated and it is limiting the bike. Take a gravel bike for example. I have the following setups for my gravel bike:
- 25mm road tyres
- 40mm gravel tyres
- MTB tyres.

This is impossible with with rim brakes.

The new Trek Domane can fit up to 38mm tyres thanks to disc brakes so it will be very good in races such as Paris Roubaix, far superior to rim brake bikes with skinny tyres (in some sections of this race, even a MTB is faster than a road bike).

So what you're saying is that disc brakes are the right solution for some people in certain circumstances? I don't see anyone disagreeing with that. What I see is people who don't want or need disc brakes being slowly forced down the route of buying increasingly expensive bikes and being faced with a lack of more affordable choices that meet their needs perfectly well because it appears that big manufacturers owned by venture capitalists want to gouge us.

ugo.santalucia

zest28 said:

Besides rim brakes wearing out expensive carbon wheels, rim brakes is out dated and it is limiting the bike. Take a gravel bike for example. I have the following setups for my gravel bike:
- 25mm road tyres
- 40mm gravel tyres
- MTB tyres.

This is impossible with with rim brakes.

The new Trek Domane can fit up to 38mm tyres thanks to disc brakes so it will be very good in races such as Paris Roubaix, far superior to rim brake bikes with skinny tyres (in some sections of this race, even a MTB is faster than a road bike).

Yeahbbut we are talking about the Emonda, which is not a gravel bike. You can't fit 40 mm tyres regardless.
As for Paris Roubaix, nobody use 38 mm tyres, because it's a good way to lose the race.
Anecdotally, I've done the "cyclo" version twice, same route... first time on 28 mm road tyres, second time on 33 mm cycocross tyres tubeless (Vittoria XN)... there isn't a lot of difference and whilst the latter had marginally more grip, it's also true that it's with the latter that I ended up hitting the deck on a sector shortly after Arenberg.

yellowv2

Why is it that advocates of disc brakes find the need to constantly justify them?
Maybe because they just have to buy the latest thing and then convince themselves that it really is everything the marketing promised?

Ben6899

ugo.santalucia said:

zest28 said:

Besides rim brakes wearing out expensive carbon wheels, rim brakes is out dated and it is limiting the bike. Take a gravel bike for example. I have the following setups for my gravel bike:
- 25mm road tyres
- 40mm gravel tyres
- MTB tyres.

This is impossible with with rim brakes.

The new Trek Domane can fit up to 38mm tyres thanks to disc brakes so it will be very good in races such as Paris Roubaix, far superior to rim brake bikes with skinny tyres (in some sections of this race, even a MTB is faster than a road bike).

Yeahbbut we are talking about the Emonda, which is not a gravel bike. You can't fit 40 mm tyres regardless.
As for Paris Roubaix, nobody use 38 mm tyres, because it's a good way to lose the race.
Anecdotally, I've done the "cyclo" version twice, same route... first time on 28 mm road tyres, second time on 33 mm cycocross tyres tubeless (Vittoria XN)... there isn't a lot of difference and whilst the latter had marginally more grip, it's also true that it's with the latter that I ended up hitting the deck on a sector shortly after Arenberg.

I reckon I could fit 40s on my Gios.

siddy1972

mrb123 said:

siddy1972 said:

The thing I don’t really get about this is that there’s obviously quite a few of us that really don’t want discs, as we (rightly or wrongly) just don’t perceive a benefit, actually the opposite.
You’d think the big manufacturers would have detected this by now and thought that sticking with both options may be a good idea.
Or is it that they don’t want our hard earned money anymore?
What am I missing here?

Because you've all already got decent rim braked bikes so the only way they can sell you another one is to render them obsolete and convince you there is something better to be had.

This hadn’t occurred to me. Whatever happened to ‘the customer is always right’?
I guess we live in a cynical marketing driven world in our little cycling bubble these days.
Makes me feel a bit sad...

bendertherobot

It does seem a misstep that manufacturers can't just offer one rim brake bike in their range, something at Ultegra level. The demand should still be there enough to justify the R&D. But hey ho.

In other news I've bagged the last of last years SL6's on C2W scheme. Ultegra. And in my size just under 7.5kg. Which is nice.

ugo.santalucia

Had a look at the Dauphinee today and I would say 40% of teams (based on counting riders in breakaways) are on rim brakes, yet the market is probably offering 80% disc. To me that says that given the chance, teams would rather ride rim brakes.

mrb123

ugo.santalucia said:

Had a look at the Dauphinee today and I would say 40% of teams (based on counting riders in breakaways) are on rim brakes, yet the market is probably offering 80% disc. To me that says that given the chance, teams would rather ride rim brakes.

The numbers on rim brakes would be considerably higher IMO in the absence of commercial pressures, manufacturers who have dropped rim brakes from their ranges and if the UCI weight limit was scrapped.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Don't worry too much, the Emonda 2023 might come with 27.5" wheels, as bike manufacturers once again try to break backwards compatibility with our existing stock.

zest28

mrb123 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Had a look at the Dauphinee today and I would say 40% of teams (based on counting riders in breakaways) are on rim brakes, yet the market is probably offering 80% disc. To me that says that given the chance, teams would rather ride rim brakes.

The numbers on rim brakes would be considerably higher IMO in the absence of commercial pressures, manufacturers who have dropped rim brakes from their ranges and if the UCI weight limit was scrapped.

Trek, Canyon, Specialized, and so on .... develop their bikes based on feedback from the pro-s.

You realize that Trek has won the world championship with the Trek Madone and the Tour Down Under 2020 with the 6.8kg Trek Emonda.

Now if you guys feel that bikes like the Trek Emonda, Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Ultimate CF, and so on .... which all weigh less than 6.8kg with disc brakes are terrible despite winning Tours, world championships and stage races, go buy a Pinarello F12 Dogma with rim brakes.

Don't forget to get the Team Sky or Ineos paint job on your Pinarello F12.

mrb123

zest28 said:

mrb123 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Had a look at the Dauphinee today and I would say 40% of teams (based on counting riders in breakaways) are on rim brakes, yet the market is probably offering 80% disc. To me that says that given the chance, teams would rather ride rim brakes.

The numbers on rim brakes would be considerably higher IMO in the absence of commercial pressures, manufacturers who have dropped rim brakes from their ranges and if the UCI weight limit was scrapped.

Trek, Canyon, Specialized, and so on .... develop their bikes based on feedback from the pro-s.

You realize that Trek has won the world championship with the Trek Madone and the Tour Down Under 2020 with the 6.8kg Trek Emonda.

Now if you guys feel that bikes like the Trek Emonda, Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Ultimate CF, and so on .... which all weigh less than 6.8kg with disc brakes are terrible despite winning Tours, world championships and stage races, go buy a Pinarello F12 Dogma with rim brakes.

Don't forget to get the Team Sky or Ineos paint job on your Pinarello F12.

OK, so let's have a look at Canyon as you mention them.

The Ultimate CF SLX model with Dura Ace di2 on the website is quoted as 7.1kg for the disc model, 6.5kg for the equivalent rim brake bike.

I guess in pro level spec with tubs those weights would be a bit less.

So given a free choice, if there was no UCI weight limit, which would the pros choose?

ugo.santalucia

... well, basically the UCI weight limit, which initially was a hassle for manufacturers who wanted to come out with lighter bikes, is now being used to add more and more technology at an ever increasing price, yet retaining the 6.8 kg figure for the higher end models, which now cost about 10 grand... it was about 3-4 grand before the advent of disc brakes.
My friends who live at the foot of the Alps don't care much for aero or disc brakes, so they tend to stick to rim brakes and the lightest possible frames and wheels. Bianchi is therefore increasingly popular, over brands like Trek and Specialized that simply don't offer what they want.
Obviously most recreational cyclists don't live at the foot of the Alps, so the obsession for low weight is not a priority.

Horses for courses

zest28

Well, if you live at the Alps and don’t care about racing, definetly do not buy these bikes. Better do a DIY weight weenie build. Also cut off some components if you really want to go extreme. You can even drill holes in the frame and components to save some extra weight.

These bikes are for pro racing. For example, the philosophy of the Specialized Tarmac was that teams always had to choose between the aero bike (Venge) or the climbing bike (Tarmac). Now the Tarmac is an aero bike + climbing bike so that the pro teams do not need to worry about which bike to choose. The only need 1 bike now (which is the Tarmac). The Specialized Venge is no also not being sold for this very reason.

Seems that the Trek Emonda went the same direction (however Trek still has a dedicated aero bike)

The UCI 6.8kg weigth limit is for safety reasons rather than commercial reasons. The lighter the bikes, the weaker it becomes. Now there have been some noises about lower the UCI weight limit. But that remains to be seen.

thegreatdivide

zest28 said:

Well, if you live at the Alps and don’t care about racing, definetly do not buy these bikes. Better do a DIY weight weenie build. Also cut off some components if you really want to go extreme. You can even drill holes in the frame and components to save some extra weight.

These bikes are for pro racing. For example, the philosophy of the Specialized Tarmac was that teams always had to choose between the aero bike (Venge) or the climbing bike (Tarmac). Now the Tarmac is an aero bike + climbing bike so that the pro teams do not need to worry about which bike to choose. The only need 1 bike now (which is the Tarmac). The Specialized Venge is no also not being sold for this very reason.

Seems that the Trek Emonda went the same direction (however Trek still has a dedicated aero bike)

The UCI 6.8kg weigth limit is for safety reasons rather than commercial reasons. The lighter the bikes, the weaker it becomes. Now there have been some noises about lower the UCI weight limit. But that remains to be seen.

The Venge is still being produced and sold as frame only option for the 2021 season. Why? Because the Venge plus the new Rapide CX wheels is way more aero than the new SL7. Specialized have been very quiet about this. Take away the new Rapide CX wheels from the SL7, stick in some 30mm rims (like the lower models) and it’s a frame that’s marginally more aero than the SL6. It’s marketing spin in its purest form from Spec.

zest28

thegreatdivide said:

zest28 said:

Well, if you live at the Alps and don’t care about racing, definetly do not buy these bikes. Better do a DIY weight weenie build. Also cut off some components if you really want to go extreme. You can even drill holes in the frame and components to save some extra weight.

These bikes are for pro racing. For example, the philosophy of the Specialized Tarmac was that teams always had to choose between the aero bike (Venge) or the climbing bike (Tarmac). Now the Tarmac is an aero bike + climbing bike so that the pro teams do not need to worry about which bike to choose. The only need 1 bike now (which is the Tarmac). The Specialized Venge is no also not being sold for this very reason.

Seems that the Trek Emonda went the same direction (however Trek still has a dedicated aero bike)

The UCI 6.8kg weigth limit is for safety reasons rather than commercial reasons. The lighter the bikes, the weaker it becomes. Now there have been some noises about lower the UCI weight limit. But that remains to be seen.

The Venge is still being produced and sold as frame only option for the 2021 season. Why? Because the Venge plus the new Rapide CX wheels is way more aero than the new SL7. Specialized have been very quiet about this. Take away the new Rapide CX wheels from the SL7, stick in some 30mm rims (like the lower models) and it’s a frame that’s marginally more aero than the SL6. It’s marketing spin in its purest form from Spec.

I see. Thanks for clearing that up. First I thought Specialized did some voodoo that they created a climbing bike that is more aero than their dedicated aero bike. But this explains it

yellowv2

It’s marketing hype and all about increasing bike sales. If we can convince people they need disc brakes we can sell more new bikes. It’s nothing to do with feedback from pro riders, mostly they ride what they are given and probably don’t want discs if truth be told.

ugo.santalucia

zest28 said:

The UCI 6.8kg weigth limit is for safety reasons rather than commercial reasons. The lighter the bikes, the weaker it becomes. Now there have been some noises about lower the UCI weight limit. But that remains to be seen.

It was 20 years ago, but now you can build a rim braked bike well under 6kg which doesn't cut any safety corner.
There is no longer pressure from manufacturers to lower this mass, because they have found a way to add technology. Just like cars never got any lighter, they just get packed with more and more stuff.

If you drive your car 95% of the times alone, why would you want to pay a fortune to have 20 air bags?

fenix

zest28 said:

mrb123 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Had a look at the Dauphinee today and I would say 40% of teams (based on counting riders in breakaways) are on rim brakes, yet the market is probably offering 80% disc. To me that says that given the chance, teams would rather ride rim brakes.

The numbers on rim brakes would be considerably higher IMO in the absence of commercial pressures, manufacturers who have dropped rim brakes from their ranges and if the UCI weight limit was scrapped.

Trek, Canyon, Specialized, and so on .... develop their bikes based on feedback from the pro-s.

You realize that Trek has won the world championship with the Trek Madone and the Tour Down Under 2020 with the 6.8kg Trek Emonda.

Now if you guys feel that bikes like the Trek Emonda, Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Ultimate CF, and so on .... which all weigh less than 6.8kg with disc brakes are terrible despite winning Tours, world championships and stage races, go buy a Pinarello F12 Dogma with rim brakes.

Don't forget to get the Team Sky or Ineos paint job on your Pinarello F12.

Nobody's saying they're terrible. Those same riders would have won no matter what braking system or frame design.

Manufacturers have to convince us that discs are better to sell more bikes. Proving that a bike is x% more aero than the last one is meaningless.

ugo.santalucia

fenix said:

Manufacturers have to convince us that discs are better to sell more bikes. Proving that a bike is x% more aero than the last one is meaningless.

I raced a TT at Mallory park this morning. I kept passing a guy on full TT kit on the fast part of the course and kept being passed again by him on the slower part of the course (matter of wind direction and very slight gradient)... I was doing 43-45 km/h on the fast part and 32-33 on the slow part.
One would think it should be the other way round...

Anyway, looking at the power figures from Strava and the official times, some people on TT bikes and aero helmets are wasting their money...
Equally others ride 3 feet off the ground and do a 21 minute 10 miler with 250 Watt... it's really all about learning to use that kit, not just swiping a credit card for it

brenr6

What all this rim v disc bs got to do with the new emonda. I have a rim brake emonda and I have a disc brake version on order. Things change, get over it.

yellowv2

I would ask why if you already have a rim brake Emonda, are you buying a disc brake version? Sounds like just the market they are aiming at!

brenr6

Because I want one, it’s not a crime! 😀

yellowv2

Indeed not, it's your money, spend it as you like.
Just curious why you would want two bikes the same but for braking systems?

brenr6

The one I have is an ALR