The big Coronavirus thread

briantrumpet

Incidentally, having done all the bits of paperwork I was told I needed for France, only the vaccination status was checked, at Bristol Airport, by Easyjet staff. The 'attestation d'honneur' of health status, the EU passenger locator form, nor my vaccination record were checked anywhere in France. Everyone was wearing masks (as required) on the TGV (as required, though a few people were obviously pushing the boundaries), but virtually no-one was wearing a mask at the outdoor market.

morstar

briantrumpet said:

Incidentally, having done all the bits of paperwork I was told I needed for France, only the vaccination status was checked, at Bristol Airport, by Easyjet staff. The 'attestation d'honneur' of health status, the EU passenger locator form, nor my vaccination record were checked anywhere in France. Everyone was wearing masks (as required) on the TGV (as required, though a few people were obviously pushing the boundaries), but virtually no-one was wearing a mask at the outdoor market.

Interesting.

I still carry a mask with me but haven’t worn it since it was no longer required.
Bizarrely, went shopping Thursday night and I would say just over half the customers were wearing masks. Highest I’ve seen it in weeks.

I have no problem with that but was genuinely surprised.

My boss and a couple of people on the project I am involved with tested positive last week so it’s still very much about.

Dorset_Boy

briantrumpet said:

Incidentally, having done all the bits of paperwork I was told I needed for France, only the vaccination status was checked, at Bristol Airport, by Easyjet staff. The 'attestation d'honneur' of health status, the EU passenger locator form, nor my vaccination record were checked anywhere in France. Everyone was wearing masks (as required) on the TGV (as required, though a few people were obviously pushing the boundaries), but virtually no-one was wearing a mask at the outdoor market.

Nothing checked at French passport control?
Where did you fly into?

briantrumpet

Dorset_Boy said:

briantrumpet said:

Incidentally, having done all the bits of paperwork I was told I needed for France, only the vaccination status was checked, at Bristol Airport, by Easyjet staff. The 'attestation d'honneur' of health status, the EU passenger locator form, nor my vaccination record were checked anywhere in France. Everyone was wearing masks (as required) on the TGV (as required, though a few people were obviously pushing the boundaries), but virtually no-one was wearing a mask at the outdoor market.

Nothing checked at French passport control?
Where did you fly into?

No, indeed not. I was surprised.

Paris Orly - first time I've flown into there, and didn't seem anything like as busy as Charles de Gaulle - only chose it as it was a third of the price of the later Easyjet flight to CdG, and was early morning, so I could get to my house in the day, via bus-train-train.

Having been avoiding crowds since covid arrived, this journey was at the other end of the scale: rammed at Bristol airport (at 5.30am), the plane was pretty full, and so was the TGV to Valence. For whatever reason, I *think* I've got away with it.

mrb123

Her Majesty now got it.

kingstongraham

mrb123 said:

Her Majesty now got it.

That's bad luck when it's all over already.

Pross

Do we get more days off for national mourning or a jubilee?

pblakeney

Pross said:

Do we get more days off for national mourning or a jubilee?

Mourning.
Cos you'll also get the coronation.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Pross said:

Do we get more days off for national mourning or a jubilee?

Why not have both? gif

kingstonian

briantrumpet said:

Dorset_Boy said:

briantrumpet said:

Incidentally, having done all the bits of paperwork I was told I needed for France, only the vaccination status was checked, at Bristol Airport, by Easyjet staff. The 'attestation d'honneur' of health status, the EU passenger locator form, nor my vaccination record were checked anywhere in France. Everyone was wearing masks (as required) on the TGV (as required, though a few people were obviously pushing the boundaries), but virtually no-one was wearing a mask at the outdoor market.

Nothing checked at French passport control?
Where did you fly into?

No, indeed not. I was surprised.

Paris Orly - first time I've flown into there, and didn't seem anything like as busy as Charles de Gaulle - only chose it as it was a third of the price of the later Easyjet flight to CdG, and was early morning, so I could get to my house in the day, via bus-train-train.

Having been avoiding crowds since covid arrived, this journey was at the other end of the scale: rammed at Bristol airport (at 5.30am), the plane was pretty full, and so was the TGV to Valence. For whatever reason, I *think* I've got away with it.

They work on the basis that the travel operator (airline, Eurostar/Eurotunnel, ferry company etc) have checked everything is in place prior to travel. If they haven’t, they incur the cost of returning the problem to their place or origination so I guess it is in their interests to make sure everything is in place.

rick_chasey

briantrumpet said:

darkhairedlord said:

this is probably more relevant, if you can't get a bed in the first place you won't get to ICU:
OECD Chart: Hospital beds, Total, Per 1 000 inhabitants, Annual, 2020

"But Sweden!"

Surprised to see them below the UK. There was an article in the Telegraph a couple of days ago still saying they thought they had "got it right" over covid restrictions.

The anti lockdown lot have short memories and don’t seem to understand that the logic is different now that the vast majority is vaccinated.

Seem to think now that most people are relaxed that that proves lockdowns should never have happened.

briantrumpet

rick_chasey said:

briantrumpet said:

darkhairedlord said:

this is probably more relevant, if you can't get a bed in the first place you won't get to ICU:
OECD Chart: Hospital beds, Total, Per 1 000 inhabitants, Annual, 2020

"But Sweden!"

Surprised to see them below the UK. There was an article in the Telegraph a couple of days ago still saying they thought they had "got it right" over covid restrictions.

The anti lockdown lot have short memories and don’t seem to understand that the logic is different now that the vast majority is vaccinated.

Seem to think now that most people are relaxed that that proves lockdowns should never have happened.

They'll just forget all the pesky facts, and keep using 'Sweden' as a dog whistle. Andrew Neil got caught with his trousers dow over his selective reporting of the data as it happened.

blazing_saddles

Sweden haven’t come out of things quite as badly as folks predicted, whichever way one looks at things.

briantrumpet

blazing_saddles said:

Sweden haven’t come out of things quite as badly as folks predicted, whichever way one looks at things.

I'm not sure who was predicting 'bad things'... but I don't think I'd be holding Sweden up as an example to follow in a pandemic.

blazing_saddles

briantrumpet said:

blazing_saddles said:

Sweden haven’t come out of things quite as badly as folks predicted, whichever way one looks at things.

I'm not sure who was predicting 'bad things'... but I don't think I'd be holding Sweden up as an example to follow in a pandemic.

I didn't say that they were an example to follow.
If you look simply in terms of deaths and at just their near neighbours then sure, they will look pretty bad. I would hazard a guess that they have two of the "best" death rates in the world?
Finland and Norway have done remarkably well, under any comparison.

briantrumpet

blazing_saddles said:

briantrumpet said:

blazing_saddles said:

Sweden haven’t come out of things quite as badly as folks predicted, whichever way one looks at things.

I'm not sure who was predicting 'bad things'... but I don't think I'd be holding Sweden up as an example to follow in a pandemic.

I didn't say that they were an example to follow.
If you look simply in terms of deaths and at just their near neighbours then sure, they will look pretty bad. I would hazard a guess that they have two of the "best" death rates in the world?
Finland and Norway have done remarkably well, under any comparison.

But that should be the comparison. And that's forgetting our being told frequently that the Swedish public trusted their government and didn't need to be compelled, and all the jokes about how 2m social distancing was less than they normally practise.

I just don't remember anyone predicting things going really badly in Sweden (certainly not in comparison with the UK & Europe), but, OTOH, there was justified criticism of their laissez-faire/herd immunity policy.

I've got no idea why the Tory right wing want to hold them up as a shining example. Have they heard of this stuff called 'data', I wonder?

TheBigBean

I thought there was a significant difference in the care home structure between Norway and Sweden.

briantrumpet

TheBigBean said:

I thought there was a significant difference in the care home structure between Norway and Sweden.

Well, if there is, their strategies should have been based on that. My impression is that they really could beat the trend, and it didn't work out as hoped.

blazing_saddles

TheBigBean said:

I thought there was a significant difference in the care home structure between Norway and Sweden.

My simplistic way of looking at lockdown effectiveness is that it can only be based upon case numbers.
Death rates are more a question of quality of treatment and care.
Of course the latter is affected by the former, if numbers overwhelm the system.

rick_chasey

The chief medical officer of Sweden himself said he’d do it differently and probably do some form of lockdown if he did it again

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

The chief medical officer of Sweden himself said he’d do it differently and probably do some form of lockdown if he did it again

Can't imagine any country would do exactly the same again.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

The chief medical officer of Sweden himself said he’d do it differently and probably do some form of lockdown if he did it again

Can't imagine any country would do exactly the same again.

Sure but Sweden is held up as the argument by anti-lockdowners that lockdown was unnecessary.

Pross

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

The chief medical officer of Sweden himself said he’d do it differently and probably do some form of lockdown if he did it again

Can't imagine any country would do exactly the same again.

I suspect a few wouldn't do much different. Not sure what more somewhere like NZ could have done other than being less restrictive and some of the countries in SE Asia have done pretty well.

Stevo_666

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

The chief medical officer of Sweden himself said he’d do it differently and probably do some form of lockdown if he did it again

Can't imagine any country would do exactly the same again.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

The chief medical officer of Sweden himself said he’d do it differently and probably do some form of lockdown if he did it again

Can't imagine any country would do exactly the same again.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

You don't think there will be a next time? This is the the third novel respiratory virus in 20 years.

DeVlaeminck

Hopefully there won't be another that causes this degree of disruption in our lifetimes but yes I guess it's very possible there will be.

Would the last comparable pandemic be Spanish flu ? So 100 years or so - and before that I wouldn't have a clue - but society has changed so much history is probably not much of a guide.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

The chief medical officer of Sweden himself said he’d do it differently and probably do some form of lockdown if he did it again

Can't imagine any country would do exactly the same again.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Are you some sort of extreme post-modernist historian or something?

surrey_commuter

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

The chief medical officer of Sweden himself said he’d do it differently and probably do some form of lockdown if he did it again

Can't imagine any country would do exactly the same again.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Did I miss the gap between it being "too early to tell" and "hindsight"?

rjsterry

DeVlaeminck said:

Hopefully there won't be another that causes this degree of disruption in our lifetimes but yes I guess it's very possible there will be.

Would the last comparable pandemic be Spanish flu ? So 100 years or so - and before that I wouldn't have a clue - but society has changed so much history is probably not much of a guide.

It's fascinating how quickly we have forgotten about TB. We used to have a whole system of separate hospitals for it.

rick_chasey

If the Queen comes through pretty much unscathed without any serious medical intervention then I'd say that's a symbol that we're past the social restrictions period of rona (pending some awful new variant but that seems unlikely)