The big Coronavirus thread
Comments
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You think that buying that much unusable equipment is fine?Stevo_666 said:
Many of the people moaning about this were probably moaning about the lack of PPE back in 2020.Pross said:
I'm inclined to give them some leeway on this, it's easy to forget the massive pressure they were under to get PPE by any means possible back then.kingstongraham said:
I'm much less concerned about overpaying (but that's a lot), but buying stuff that's not useable is worse than not buying it at all in every way imaginable.TheBigBean said:
Presumably bought in April to May 2020.kingstongraham said:
25% not up to scratch?TheBigBean said:
Not that bad all things considered.kingstongraham said:£12.1 bn spent on PPE in 2020/21. Year end accounts estimate a loss of value of £8.7 bn - of which over £3 bn was PPE bought of a standard that the health service can't use, and £4.7 bn was a write down in value of inventory at year end.
The price paid is what it was - this was back when vaccines were expected to be at least two years away so it was reasonable to expect shortages.
Wonder what France paid to replace the billion n95 facemasks they burnt in 2019?0 -
No, the unusable equipment is obviously an issue but was always going to be the case in the scramble for PPE. Dealing with the Far East is not the easiest in terms of QC and you have to remember at that time I think most would have thought anything was better then nothing.kingstongraham said:
You think that buying that much unusable equipment is fine?Stevo_666 said:
Many of the people moaning about this were probably moaning about the lack of PPE back in 2020.Pross said:
I'm inclined to give them some leeway on this, it's easy to forget the massive pressure they were under to get PPE by any means possible back then.kingstongraham said:
I'm much less concerned about overpaying (but that's a lot), but buying stuff that's not useable is worse than not buying it at all in every way imaginable.TheBigBean said:
Presumably bought in April to May 2020.kingstongraham said:
25% not up to scratch?TheBigBean said:
Not that bad all things considered.kingstongraham said:£12.1 bn spent on PPE in 2020/21. Year end accounts estimate a loss of value of £8.7 bn - of which over £3 bn was PPE bought of a standard that the health service can't use, and £4.7 bn was a write down in value of inventory at year end.
The price paid is what it was - this was back when vaccines were expected to be at least two years away so it was reasonable to expect shortages.
Wonder what France paid to replace the billion n95 facemasks they burnt in 2019?
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As our logistics expert what about the stuff that never got shipped, is that to be expected in the circumstances or a problem caused by pub landlords not having efficient global supply chains?skyblueamateur said:
No, the unusable equipment is obviously an issue but was always going to be the case in the scramble for PPE. Dealing with the Far East is not the easiest in terms of QC and you have to remember at that time I think most would have thought anything was better then nothing.kingstongraham said:
You think that buying that much unusable equipment is fine?Stevo_666 said:
Many of the people moaning about this were probably moaning about the lack of PPE back in 2020.Pross said:
I'm inclined to give them some leeway on this, it's easy to forget the massive pressure they were under to get PPE by any means possible back then.kingstongraham said:
I'm much less concerned about overpaying (but that's a lot), but buying stuff that's not useable is worse than not buying it at all in every way imaginable.TheBigBean said:
Presumably bought in April to May 2020.kingstongraham said:
25% not up to scratch?TheBigBean said:
Not that bad all things considered.kingstongraham said:£12.1 bn spent on PPE in 2020/21. Year end accounts estimate a loss of value of £8.7 bn - of which over £3 bn was PPE bought of a standard that the health service can't use, and £4.7 bn was a write down in value of inventory at year end.
The price paid is what it was - this was back when vaccines were expected to be at least two years away so it was reasonable to expect shortages.
Wonder what France paid to replace the billion n95 facemasks they burnt in 2019?0 -
They're not mutually exclusive. To have bought that much unusable kit and still had shortages suggests at least a lack of preparedness - especially as we'd had a dress rehearsal with SARs.Stevo_666 said:
Many of the people moaning about this were probably moaning about the lack of PPE back in 2020.Pross said:
I'm inclined to give them some leeway on this, it's easy to forget the massive pressure they were under to get PPE by any means possible back then.kingstongraham said:
I'm much less concerned about overpaying (but that's a lot), but buying stuff that's not useable is worse than not buying it at all in every way imaginable.TheBigBean said:
Presumably bought in April to May 2020.kingstongraham said:
25% not up to scratch?TheBigBean said:
Not that bad all things considered.kingstongraham said:£12.1 bn spent on PPE in 2020/21. Year end accounts estimate a loss of value of £8.7 bn - of which over £3 bn was PPE bought of a standard that the health service can't use, and £4.7 bn was a write down in value of inventory at year end.
Just because some wastage would be acceptable doesn't mean we should just give it a free pass.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Leeway perhaps. But I don't think the "some action is better than nothing" argument that some make is helpful.Pross said:
I'm inclined to give them some leeway on this, it's easy to forget the massive pressure they were under to get PPE by any means possible back then.kingstongraham said:
I'm much less concerned about overpaying (but that's a lot), but buying stuff that's not useable is worse than not buying it at all in every way imaginable.TheBigBean said:
Presumably bought in April to May 2020.kingstongraham said:
25% not up to scratch?TheBigBean said:
Not that bad all things considered.kingstongraham said:£12.1 bn spent on PPE in 2020/21. Year end accounts estimate a loss of value of £8.7 bn - of which over £3 bn was PPE bought of a standard that the health service can't use, and £4.7 bn was a write down in value of inventory at year end.
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They're writing down 25% of the total cost because it was unusable. Only 5% because it was defective, the rest because it was the wrong stuff for health and social care use.0
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You would expect us not to have stockpiles of PPE for a pandemic the likes of which had not been seen since well into the last century. Crystal balls are in short supply these days - probably down to Brexitrjsterry said:
They're not mutually exclusive. To have bought that much unusable kit and still had shortages suggests at least a lack of preparedness - especially as we'd had a dress rehearsal with SARs.Stevo_666 said:
Many of the people moaning about this were probably moaning about the lack of PPE back in 2020.Pross said:
I'm inclined to give them some leeway on this, it's easy to forget the massive pressure they were under to get PPE by any means possible back then.kingstongraham said:
I'm much less concerned about overpaying (but that's a lot), but buying stuff that's not useable is worse than not buying it at all in every way imaginable.TheBigBean said:
Presumably bought in April to May 2020.kingstongraham said:
25% not up to scratch?TheBigBean said:
Not that bad all things considered.kingstongraham said:£12.1 bn spent on PPE in 2020/21. Year end accounts estimate a loss of value of £8.7 bn - of which over £3 bn was PPE bought of a standard that the health service can't use, and £4.7 bn was a write down in value of inventory at year end.
Just because some wastage would be acceptable doesn't mean we should just give it a free pass.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
There's some shockers no doubt but it was procurement on an unprecedented level.surrey_commuter said:
As our logistics expert what about the stuff that never got shipped, is that to be expected in the circumstances or a problem caused by pub landlords not having efficient global supply chains?skyblueamateur said:
No, the unusable equipment is obviously an issue but was always going to be the case in the scramble for PPE. Dealing with the Far East is not the easiest in terms of QC and you have to remember at that time I think most would have thought anything was better then nothing.kingstongraham said:
You think that buying that much unusable equipment is fine?Stevo_666 said:
Many of the people moaning about this were probably moaning about the lack of PPE back in 2020.Pross said:
I'm inclined to give them some leeway on this, it's easy to forget the massive pressure they were under to get PPE by any means possible back then.kingstongraham said:
I'm much less concerned about overpaying (but that's a lot), but buying stuff that's not useable is worse than not buying it at all in every way imaginable.TheBigBean said:
Presumably bought in April to May 2020.kingstongraham said:
25% not up to scratch?TheBigBean said:
Not that bad all things considered.kingstongraham said:£12.1 bn spent on PPE in 2020/21. Year end accounts estimate a loss of value of £8.7 bn - of which over £3 bn was PPE bought of a standard that the health service can't use, and £4.7 bn was a write down in value of inventory at year end.
The price paid is what it was - this was back when vaccines were expected to be at least two years away so it was reasonable to expect shortages.
Wonder what France paid to replace the billion n95 facemasks they burnt in 2019?
I was unaware of stuff not getting shipped? There was huge issues with getting them through customs at one point and I believe there are still container loads at Felixstowe. I air-freighted some in to donate to our local NHS trust as I knew people who worked there and they literally had nothing. It took the best part of a month to get them cleared through customs which was a nonsense.
I've been highly critical with a lot of the handling and there were undoubtedly some very, very dodgy contracts handed out but it was a massive, massive scramble at that time.0 -
skyblueamateur said:
There's some shockers no doubt but it was procurement on an unprecedented level.surrey_commuter said:
As our logistics expert what about the stuff that never got shipped, is that to be expected in the circumstances or a problem caused by pub landlords not having efficient global supply chains?skyblueamateur said:
No, the unusable equipment is obviously an issue but was always going to be the case in the scramble for PPE. Dealing with the Far East is not the easiest in terms of QC and you have to remember at that time I think most would have thought anything was better then nothing.kingstongraham said:
You think that buying that much unusable equipment is fine?Stevo_666 said:
Many of the people moaning about this were probably moaning about the lack of PPE back in 2020.Pross said:
I'm inclined to give them some leeway on this, it's easy to forget the massive pressure they were under to get PPE by any means possible back then.kingstongraham said:
I'm much less concerned about overpaying (but that's a lot), but buying stuff that's not useable is worse than not buying it at all in every way imaginable.TheBigBean said:
Presumably bought in April to May 2020.kingstongraham said:
25% not up to scratch?TheBigBean said:
Not that bad all things considered.kingstongraham said:£12.1 bn spent on PPE in 2020/21. Year end accounts estimate a loss of value of £8.7 bn - of which over £3 bn was PPE bought of a standard that the health service can't use, and £4.7 bn was a write down in value of inventory at year end.
The price paid is what it was - this was back when vaccines were expected to be at least two years away so it was reasonable to expect shortages.
Wonder what France paid to replace the billion n95 facemasks they burnt in 2019?
I was unaware of stuff not getting shipped? There was huge issues with getting them through customs at one point and I believe there are still container loads at Felixstowe. I air-freighted some in to donate to our local NHS trust as I knew people who worked there and they literally had nothing. It took the best part of a month to get them cleared through customs which was a nonsense.
I've been highly critical with a lot of the handling and there were undoubtedly some very, very dodgy contracts handed out but it was a massive, massive scramble at that time.
Nobody knows. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1051381/DHSC-Annual-Report-and-Accounts-2020-21.pdfThe weaknesses in its inventory records, combined with significant volumes of inventory being locked in containers at ports, other temporary locations or in storage in China, meant the Department was unable to complete its physical stock-counts at the year-end to verify the quantity and quality of the inventory it held. The Department’s records show that as at 31 March 2021, it held 7.5 billion items in 16,000 containers at UK ports plus a further 1.6 billion of items in storage in China; however, because it did not complete its year end stock counts it is unable to confirm this.0 -
We *did* expect a pandemic. Look up Exercise Cygnus. No crystal ball necessary - we had a specific exercise to deal with a pandemic in 2016. The need to retain sufficient stockpiles of PPE was specifically identified in the preceding Influenza Preparedness Strategy from 2011.Stevo_666 said:
You would expect us not to have stockpiles of PPE for a pandemic the likes of which had not been seen since well into the last century. Crystal balls are in short supply these days - probably down to Brexitrjsterry said:
They're not mutually exclusive. To have bought that much unusable kit and still had shortages suggests at least a lack of preparedness - especially as we'd had a dress rehearsal with SARs.Stevo_666 said:
Many of the people moaning about this were probably moaning about the lack of PPE back in 2020.Pross said:
I'm inclined to give them some leeway on this, it's easy to forget the massive pressure they were under to get PPE by any means possible back then.kingstongraham said:
I'm much less concerned about overpaying (but that's a lot), but buying stuff that's not useable is worse than not buying it at all in every way imaginable.TheBigBean said:
Presumably bought in April to May 2020.kingstongraham said:
25% not up to scratch?TheBigBean said:
Not that bad all things considered.kingstongraham said:£12.1 bn spent on PPE in 2020/21. Year end accounts estimate a loss of value of £8.7 bn - of which over £3 bn was PPE bought of a standard that the health service can't use, and £4.7 bn was a write down in value of inventory at year end.
Just because some wastage would be acceptable doesn't mean we should just give it a free pass.
'Nobody could have predicted...' is just factually incorrect. We did predict and identify the needs... and then didn't stockpile enough PPE. We did however get the advance purchasing of vaccines right.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-pandemic-preparedness/uk-pandemic-preparedness1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
helps explain the delays at ports and shortage of shipping containers though. All full of stuff no one wants...kingstongraham said:skyblueamateur said:
There's some shockers no doubt but it was procurement on an unprecedented level.surrey_commuter said:
As our logistics expert what about the stuff that never got shipped, is that to be expected in the circumstances or a problem caused by pub landlords not having efficient global supply chains?skyblueamateur said:
No, the unusable equipment is obviously an issue but was always going to be the case in the scramble for PPE. Dealing with the Far East is not the easiest in terms of QC and you have to remember at that time I think most would have thought anything was better then nothing.kingstongraham said:
You think that buying that much unusable equipment is fine?Stevo_666 said:
Many of the people moaning about this were probably moaning about the lack of PPE back in 2020.Pross said:
I'm inclined to give them some leeway on this, it's easy to forget the massive pressure they were under to get PPE by any means possible back then.kingstongraham said:
I'm much less concerned about overpaying (but that's a lot), but buying stuff that's not useable is worse than not buying it at all in every way imaginable.TheBigBean said:
Presumably bought in April to May 2020.kingstongraham said:
25% not up to scratch?TheBigBean said:
Not that bad all things considered.kingstongraham said:£12.1 bn spent on PPE in 2020/21. Year end accounts estimate a loss of value of £8.7 bn - of which over £3 bn was PPE bought of a standard that the health service can't use, and £4.7 bn was a write down in value of inventory at year end.
The price paid is what it was - this was back when vaccines were expected to be at least two years away so it was reasonable to expect shortages.
Wonder what France paid to replace the billion n95 facemasks they burnt in 2019?
I was unaware of stuff not getting shipped? There was huge issues with getting them through customs at one point and I believe there are still container loads at Felixstowe. I air-freighted some in to donate to our local NHS trust as I knew people who worked there and they literally had nothing. It took the best part of a month to get them cleared through customs which was a nonsense.
I've been highly critical with a lot of the handling and there were undoubtedly some very, very dodgy contracts handed out but it was a massive, massive scramble at that time.
Nobody knows. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1051381/DHSC-Annual-Report-and-Accounts-2020-21.pdfThe weaknesses in its inventory records, combined with significant volumes of inventory being locked in containers at ports, other temporary locations or in storage in China, meant the Department was unable to complete its physical stock-counts at the year-end to verify the quantity and quality of the inventory it held. The Department’s records show that as at 31 March 2021, it held 7.5 billion items in 16,000 containers at UK ports plus a further 1.6 billion of items in storage in China; however, because it did not complete its year end stock counts it is unable to confirm this.0 -
I'm aware there was some general pandemic planning but it was not just a case of having any old PPE - it was a case of having what was needed specifically for Covid. So clearly we couldn't know what to stockpile until Covid came along...rjsterry said:
We *did* expect a pandemic. Look up Exercise Cygnus. No crystal ball necessary - we had a specific exercise to deal with a pandemic in 2016. The need to retain sufficient stockpiles of PPE was specifically identified in the preceding Influenza Preparedness Strategy from 2011.Stevo_666 said:
You would expect us not to have stockpiles of PPE for a pandemic the likes of which had not been seen since well into the last century. Crystal balls are in short supply these days - probably down to Brexitrjsterry said:
They're not mutually exclusive. To have bought that much unusable kit and still had shortages suggests at least a lack of preparedness - especially as we'd had a dress rehearsal with SARs.Stevo_666 said:
Many of the people moaning about this were probably moaning about the lack of PPE back in 2020.Pross said:
I'm inclined to give them some leeway on this, it's easy to forget the massive pressure they were under to get PPE by any means possible back then.kingstongraham said:
I'm much less concerned about overpaying (but that's a lot), but buying stuff that's not useable is worse than not buying it at all in every way imaginable.TheBigBean said:
Presumably bought in April to May 2020.kingstongraham said:
25% not up to scratch?TheBigBean said:
Not that bad all things considered.kingstongraham said:£12.1 bn spent on PPE in 2020/21. Year end accounts estimate a loss of value of £8.7 bn - of which over £3 bn was PPE bought of a standard that the health service can't use, and £4.7 bn was a write down in value of inventory at year end.
Just because some wastage would be acceptable doesn't mean we should just give it a free pass.
'Nobody could have predicted...' is just factually incorrect. We did predict and identify the needs... and then didn't stockpile enough PPE. We did however get the advance purchasing of vaccines right.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-pandemic-preparedness/uk-pandemic-preparedness"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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Price and quantity.rick_chasey said:What's different between flu PPE and Covid PPE?
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The planning was specifically for an influenza pandemic. The shortages were in basics like aprons, overalls, masks. These were/are not Covid-specific but apply generally to infectious disease. I'm not saying we should have got absolutely everything right, but we should have had the basics covered and we didn't. As I said, we did get other bits of the preparation right, so it was not that this was unexpected. If we start pretending that these things cannot be planned for then we will get caught again. I think we can probably agree that PPE bought in an orderly fashion to maintain a stockpile is more cost effective than panic buying along with the rest of the world. The trouble is, it is cheaper in the short term to not maintain a stockpile at all.Stevo_666 said:
I'm aware there was some general pandemic planning but it was not just a case of having any old PPE - it was a case of having what was needed specifically for Covid. So clearly we couldn't know what to stockpile until Covid came along...rjsterry said:
We *did* expect a pandemic. Look up Exercise Cygnus. No crystal ball necessary - we had a specific exercise to deal with a pandemic in 2016. The need to retain sufficient stockpiles of PPE was specifically identified in the preceding Influenza Preparedness Strategy from 2011.Stevo_666 said:
You would expect us not to have stockpiles of PPE for a pandemic the likes of which had not been seen since well into the last century. Crystal balls are in short supply these days - probably down to Brexitrjsterry said:
They're not mutually exclusive. To have bought that much unusable kit and still had shortages suggests at least a lack of preparedness - especially as we'd had a dress rehearsal with SARs.Stevo_666 said:
Many of the people moaning about this were probably moaning about the lack of PPE back in 2020.Pross said:
I'm inclined to give them some leeway on this, it's easy to forget the massive pressure they were under to get PPE by any means possible back then.kingstongraham said:
I'm much less concerned about overpaying (but that's a lot), but buying stuff that's not useable is worse than not buying it at all in every way imaginable.TheBigBean said:
Presumably bought in April to May 2020.kingstongraham said:
25% not up to scratch?TheBigBean said:
Not that bad all things considered.kingstongraham said:£12.1 bn spent on PPE in 2020/21. Year end accounts estimate a loss of value of £8.7 bn - of which over £3 bn was PPE bought of a standard that the health service can't use, and £4.7 bn was a write down in value of inventory at year end.
Just because some wastage would be acceptable doesn't mean we should just give it a free pass.
'Nobody could have predicted...' is just factually incorrect. We did predict and identify the needs... and then didn't stockpile enough PPE. We did however get the advance purchasing of vaccines right.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-pandemic-preparedness/uk-pandemic-preparedness1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
Expiry dates would be more of an issue, if you have a load of stuff in stock 'just in case' some will need to be thrown away if the event the pandemic doesn't happen.rick_chasey said:What's different between flu PPE and Covid PPE?
From memory no-one really knew what kit was effective and what wasn't at the start.0 -
Exactly. So the specifics for covid could not have been pre-stockpiled. Not sure how else you could prep for an unknown infection.rjsterry said:
The planning was specifically for an influenza pandemic. The shortages were in basics like aprons, overalls, masks. These were/are not Covid-specific but apply generally to infectious disease. I'm not saying we should have got absolutely everything right, but we should have had the basics covered and we didn't. As I said, we did get other bits of the preparation right, so it was not that this was unexpected. If we start pretending that these things cannot be planned for then we will get caught again. I think we can probably agree that PPE bought in an orderly fashion to maintain a stockpile is more cost effective than panic buying along with the rest of the world. The trouble is, it is cheaper in the short term to not maintain a stockpile at all.Stevo_666 said:
I'm aware there was some general pandemic planning but it was not just a case of having any old PPE - it was a case of having what was needed specifically for Covid. So clearly we couldn't know what to stockpile until Covid came along...rjsterry said:
We *did* expect a pandemic. Look up Exercise Cygnus. No crystal ball necessary - we had a specific exercise to deal with a pandemic in 2016. The need to retain sufficient stockpiles of PPE was specifically identified in the preceding Influenza Preparedness Strategy from 2011.Stevo_666 said:
You would expect us not to have stockpiles of PPE for a pandemic the likes of which had not been seen since well into the last century. Crystal balls are in short supply these days - probably down to Brexitrjsterry said:
They're not mutually exclusive. To have bought that much unusable kit and still had shortages suggests at least a lack of preparedness - especially as we'd had a dress rehearsal with SARs.Stevo_666 said:
Many of the people moaning about this were probably moaning about the lack of PPE back in 2020.Pross said:
I'm inclined to give them some leeway on this, it's easy to forget the massive pressure they were under to get PPE by any means possible back then.kingstongraham said:
I'm much less concerned about overpaying (but that's a lot), but buying stuff that's not useable is worse than not buying it at all in every way imaginable.TheBigBean said:
Presumably bought in April to May 2020.kingstongraham said:
25% not up to scratch?TheBigBean said:
Not that bad all things considered.kingstongraham said:£12.1 bn spent on PPE in 2020/21. Year end accounts estimate a loss of value of £8.7 bn - of which over £3 bn was PPE bought of a standard that the health service can't use, and £4.7 bn was a write down in value of inventory at year end.
Just because some wastage would be acceptable doesn't mean we should just give it a free pass.
'Nobody could have predicted...' is just factually incorrect. We did predict and identify the needs... and then didn't stockpile enough PPE. We did however get the advance purchasing of vaccines right.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-pandemic-preparedness/uk-pandemic-preparedness"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
See info here:rick_chasey said:What's different between flu PPE and Covid PPE?
https://independentnurse.co.uk/news/ppe-stockpiles-proved-inadequate-for-covid-19-pandemic/232502/"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It's a pity that Johnboy (and Stevo ) never post in cakestop.0
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The bits we ran out of were the stuff that you use for any infectious disease: aprons, overalls and masks. There were some shortages which were more specific, which is excusable, but we should have had the basics as your link confirms.Stevo_666 said:
Exactly. So the specifics for covid could not have been pre-stockpiled. Not sure how else you could prep for an unknown infection.rjsterry said:
The planning was specifically for an influenza pandemic. The shortages were in basics like aprons, overalls, masks. These were/are not Covid-specific but apply generally to infectious disease. I'm not saying we should have got absolutely everything right, but we should have had the basics covered and we didn't. As I said, we did get other bits of the preparation right, so it was not that this was unexpected. If we start pretending that these things cannot be planned for then we will get caught again. I think we can probably agree that PPE bought in an orderly fashion to maintain a stockpile is more cost effective than panic buying along with the rest of the world. The trouble is, it is cheaper in the short term to not maintain a stockpile at all.Stevo_666 said:
I'm aware there was some general pandemic planning but it was not just a case of having any old PPE - it was a case of having what was needed specifically for Covid. So clearly we couldn't know what to stockpile until Covid came along...rjsterry said:
We *did* expect a pandemic. Look up Exercise Cygnus. No crystal ball necessary - we had a specific exercise to deal with a pandemic in 2016. The need to retain sufficient stockpiles of PPE was specifically identified in the preceding Influenza Preparedness Strategy from 2011.Stevo_666 said:
You would expect us not to have stockpiles of PPE for a pandemic the likes of which had not been seen since well into the last century. Crystal balls are in short supply these days - probably down to Brexitrjsterry said:
They're not mutually exclusive. To have bought that much unusable kit and still had shortages suggests at least a lack of preparedness - especially as we'd had a dress rehearsal with SARs.Stevo_666 said:
Many of the people moaning about this were probably moaning about the lack of PPE back in 2020.Pross said:
I'm inclined to give them some leeway on this, it's easy to forget the massive pressure they were under to get PPE by any means possible back then.kingstongraham said:
I'm much less concerned about overpaying (but that's a lot), but buying stuff that's not useable is worse than not buying it at all in every way imaginable.TheBigBean said:
Presumably bought in April to May 2020.kingstongraham said:
25% not up to scratch?TheBigBean said:
Not that bad all things considered.kingstongraham said:£12.1 bn spent on PPE in 2020/21. Year end accounts estimate a loss of value of £8.7 bn - of which over £3 bn was PPE bought of a standard that the health service can't use, and £4.7 bn was a write down in value of inventory at year end.
Just because some wastage would be acceptable doesn't mean we should just give it a free pass.
'Nobody could have predicted...' is just factually incorrect. We did predict and identify the needs... and then didn't stockpile enough PPE. We did however get the advance purchasing of vaccines right.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-pandemic-preparedness/uk-pandemic-preparedness
Edit.
Here's a link to the National Audit Office report on the PPE shortage.
https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/The-supply-of-personal-protective-equipment-PPE-during-the-COVID-19-pandemic.pdf
A lack of gowns in the PIPP stockpile is noted, but bigger issues seem to be the change in procurement in 2018, which prioritised cost over resilience; and confusion over what was stockpiled where leading to distribution problems.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
rick_chasey said:
See, I told you PE was worth supporting...0 -
As Ian Hislop said the other day. They have been reporting on the procurement scandal for weeks with no traction with voters. Then the party scandal comes along and gets them interested. One is a scandal of corruption and back handers and one is a scandal of stupidity. I am more worried about the former than the latter.0
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The company I work for are obviously fed up with people getting sick and have just announced measures* that go back to lockdown. Wonder if others will follow.
*WFW Essential work only. Meetings by Teams, masks while moving, 2m minimum, cleaning, 2 tests per week minimum with evidenced positive for sick leave and negative to get into the office.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
Under reporting in 1999 is relevant? 🤔rjsterry said:@First.Aspect
I think you might 'enjoy' this.
Robin's expression says it all.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I thought he was remarkably polite.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Nice but dim. 😉rjsterry said:I thought he was remarkably polite.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Is appealing that you have a philosophy degree, not in itself an argument from authority.
Have to admit that I'm one of the people who got side effects and didn't use the yellow card system.
Mainly because feeling like shit for a day is better than endless lockdowns or a completely fuucked NHS.
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No, I meant Robin was remarkably polite. To be told by some guy who has an entirely irrelevant qualification and has looked some stuff up on Google that you don't really know what you are doing is a bit much.pblakeney said:
Nice but dim. 😉rjsterry said:I thought he was remarkably polite.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0
