If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

rolf_f

Surrey Commuter wrote:

The trade deal mutterings are a figleaf hiding a red herring. If you cared about exports the last thing you would do is campaign to leave the EU, in fact you would do a Maggie and aggressively try and deepen and expand the SM.

You know we shouldn't worry. Apparently we made 1.67m cars in 2017 and exported 1.34 million of them. So we bought 0.33m of them ourselves.

New car registrations were 2.54m in 2017. However, since Brexiters are patriotic and will all buy British without exception, they alone should be responsible for ensuring that at least 52% of the cars sold in the UK are British made in future (as the unpatriotic remainers will all be buying Euro crap).

So, we should be selling at least 1.27m British made cars to Brexiteers next year so we'd only need 0.7m confused Remainers to accidentally buy British when they thought they were buying Euro and we'd be no worse off!

It's looking very positive indeed!

Longshot

Surrey Commuter wrote:

I am guessing when you mean economic benefits of leaving. If so then Farage, Gove and co have never claimed any.

Actually, any benefits... economic or otherwise.

veronese68

Rolf F wrote:

However, since Brexiters are patriotic and will all buy British without exception...

Whilst I know it's a tongue in cheek comment, I must add you are massively underestimating the levels of hypocrisy. Just look at Coopster and his Canyon. Not only did he buy a German bike, he bought direct so not even a plucky British shopkeeper got to see any of his cash. :roll:

NitrousOxide wrote:

Having only just seen this thread and having not looked at other replies, I'll be surprised if I'm the only one who regrets voting leave in 2016, not taking the time to look up the claims by both sides prior to voting and being suckered in by bits like that ****** lying bus.

You're a rare beast admitting you've changed your mind, and I thank you for saying so. I know of a couple of others that have said similar, the majority seem to be getting more extreme unfortunately.

surrey_commuter

Longshot wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

I am guessing when you mean economic benefits of leaving. If so then Farage, Gove and co have never claimed any.

Actually, any benefits... economic or otherwise.

That only leaves sovereignity

rolf_f

Veronese68 wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

However, since Brexiters are patriotic and will all buy British without exception...

Whilst I know it's a tongue in cheek comment, I must add you are massively underestimating the levels of hypocrisy. Just look at Coopster and his Canyon. Not only did he buy a German bike, he bought direct so not even a plucky British shopkeeper got to see any of his cash. :roll:

I have thought of that precise example myself. Despite being an ardent remainer, I have tried where possible to buy British and failing that European. Hard often to succeed these days but you have to do your flawed best (bit like the EU). I didn't buy a Canyon - I bought a Ribble (and a Look which at least wasn't made in the Far East). My previous washing machine was UK made as is my vacuum cleaner. I don't always succeed but I do try. I suspect our beloved Coopster didn't give it a moments thought. Thinking about consequences, benefits to Blighty etc being not what you'd expect most brexiters to do cause Patriotism is all about waving flags and errrr, in practical terms I still have no idea!

Actually, what is it about? Not immigration, not the economy, not being unable to make our own rules (cos we all know that in the EU we make the rules and outside of it we follow them). What is the point of this? Really......

rolf_f

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Longshot wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

I am guessing when you mean economic benefits of leaving. If so then Farage, Gove and co have never claimed any.

Actually, any benefits... economic or otherwise.

That only leaves sovereignity

What? That person that our Brexiter in chief lied to last week?

elbowloh

What does sovereignty even mean anymore?

Are our lying politicians better or worse than the ones in Brussels or does it not matter, because at least they're ours?

Within the EU, we always had a say in the legislation it passed, a pretty major one at that, and we had a veto also. I've still not been able to get any real examples of where EU law has been really bad for us, not ones that haven't been disproved anyway. Most EU laws have been put in place to raise standards, particularly when it comes to human / employee rights.

pblakeney

elbowloh wrote:

...Most EU laws have been put in place to raise standards, particularly when it comes to human / employee rights.

Careful now. You nearly gave away the real reason behind all this.

secretsam

Ian_d wrote:

Remoaners speak so much crap

Was reading this thread with interest, intelligent discussion and then, out comes the sane voice of moderate Leavers.
Twat.
Edit: last word should be t-w-a-t

secretsam

rjsterry wrote:

I also don't believe that remainers all voted that way for solely rational reasons, however much we tell ourselves that was the case.

Absolutely.
I know that like any political system or body, the EU is deeply flawed.
But I also knew I didn't want the kind of people who believe what's written in the Daily Heil to win.
Plus, I like being "European".

rolf_f

HaydenM wrote:

The fact that both sides think they are on the rational side and the other side is full of total mentalists probably tells us that both sides are wrong. I know plenty of rational people on both sides and would be prepared to change my mind if the balance of risk changed.

Missed this one. This is the sort of worrying pseudo sanity that sounds like balanced pragmatism but isn't.

Going back to the bus analogy, if you have the driver screaming "let me drive this thing off the cliff" and someone up front screaming "no, no, no" and fighting to keep the bus on the road, you probably shouldn't take the line that because both sides think they are on the rational side that both sides are wrong.

It is actually possible that if both sides think that the other side is insane, that only one of them is right.

I have met rational people who want to leave but I have never once heard a rational reason to leave. Their rationality does not extend to Brexit because they never have any rational reasons for what they want.