TDF 2019, Stage 18: Embrun > Valloire 25/07/2019 - 208 km *Spoilers*

No_Ta_Doctor

Mørkøv solo attack on the lanterne.

phreak

Richard T. Biscuit wrote:

At some point Ineos are going to have to commit to a leader and use both their guys together so they can fight for 1st rather than just 2nd. At the moment a Thomas attack launching Bernal seems most viable.

I thought he was going to try and pull a Schleck/Sastre thing from 2008 for a minute and just use an attack to disrupt the chase, but he really was just doing a somewhat weak attack.

mididoctors

Rick Chasey wrote:

Bernal is the strongest Ineos rider and now is their best placed on GC.

Can’t see Thomas being faster than him in the next two days so he ought to play second fiddle.

yeah his attack was a bit going nowhere, the net effect was to close the gap to Bernal a bit. Bernal and pinot have attacks on a different level to the rest...maybe landa too

tommasi

Thank god the Sky train is dead.

hypster

tommasi wrote:

Thank god the Sky train is dead.

Not dead, just resting waiting for the proper driver.

dolan_driver

Great ride bu Quintana. A classic Colombian mountain stage win.

DD.

ddraver

https://twitter.com/fmk_RoI/status/1154 ... 80354?s=19

:?

Edit - Video - https://twitter.com/ProCyclingStats/sta ... 78208?s=19

(Roglic got 15 seconds for that on the Giro)

hanshotfirst

tommasi wrote:

Thank god the Sky train is dead.

It'll be back. Just wait till next year when they have a fit Kwia, fit Poels, Bernal and Thomas leading Froomedog up every climb.

richard_t._biscuit

I think Dylan van Baarle riding at the front for so long kept Alaphilippe in touch for just long enough. If someone from outside Ineos took on the pace and dropped DVB earlier they may have dropped JA earlier and more definitively. It was either a sign of weakness from the others or a tactical weakness of falling into the old trap of letting Sky/Ineos take responsibility.

RichN95.

Quintana is less than four minutes down on GC. So that's less than 2.30 down on Bernal. He can still have a big influence on this race

No_Ta_Doctor

Re the Thomas attack...

Presumably, the original tactic was for Bernal to go and Thomas to sit in while Pinot/Kruisjswik chased, dropping Alaphilippe.
That they didn't chase - or didn't chase hard enough - was probably taken as a sign that they didn't have legs, making it worth a shout to attack and gap them, possibly bridge to Bernal. It wasn't only Alaphilippe that could have been put into difficulty. It was a risk, and it eventually meant the GC group did pull time back on Bernal's lead, but it was worth a try I reckon. Had it come off you might have seen Ineos in 1st and 2nd this evening.

ddraver

It was a good idea, attack but make sure you get a gap. He should have just stopped dead when they brought him back through. Absolutely in the middle of the road.

hypster

No tA Doctor wrote:

Re the Thomas attack...

Presumably, the original tactic was for Bernal to go and Thomas to sit in while Pinot/Kruisjswik chased, dropping Alaphilippe.
That they didn't chase - or didn't chase hard enough - was probably taken as a sign that they didn't have legs, making it worth a shout to attack and gap them, possibly bridge to Bernal. It wasn't only Alaphilippe that could have been put into difficulty. It was a risk, and it eventually meant the GC group did pull time back on Bernal's lead, but it was worth a try I reckon. Had it come off you might have seen Ineos in 1st and 2nd this evening.

I think Thomas needs to go with Bernal and let the others chase if they can and crack Alaphilippe. Twice now Thomas has let Bernal go up the road only to drag Alaphilippe along rather than distancing him earlier and getting a bigger gap. If Thomas and Bernal had been together today they could have co-operated and maybe put time into all the contenders and even more into Alaphilippe. What Ineos are doing is not really working and they need to have a rethink.

I didn't understand DvB being in the break today either. If he'd have been there on the Izoard they might just have cracked Alaphilippe when Movistar upped the pace and whittled the group down. As it was Ineos only had Thomas, Bernal and Pouls struggling to stay with the group until the pace slowed and Castroviejo got back on.

Pross

Wasted opportunity to ditch JA today but I think they've now seen he is ready to crack and will go after him on a summit finish. Even with the downhill Bernal managed to take quite a chunk in a fairly short time. They've got 2 chances left now to take this from him but are there too many who will be happy for a podium instead? You'd have to think Geraint, as a previous winner, isn't going to settle for second or third.

Pross

No tA Doctor wrote:

Re the Thomas attack...

Presumably, the original tactic was for Bernal to go and Thomas to sit in while Pinot/Kruisjswik chased, dropping Alaphilippe.
That they didn't chase - or didn't chase hard enough - was probably taken as a sign that they didn't have legs, making it worth a shout to attack and gap them, possibly bridge to Bernal. It wasn't only Alaphilippe that could have been put into difficulty. It was a risk, and it eventually meant the GC group did pull time back on Bernal's lead, but it was worth a try I reckon. Had it come off you might have seen Ineos in 1st and 2nd this evening.

I agree with this, just felt they needed to make the move a bit earlier.

hypster

Pross wrote:

Wasted opportunity to ditch JA today but I think they've now seen he is ready to crack and will go after him on a summit finish. Even with the downhill Bernal managed to take quite a chunk in a fairly short time. They've got 2 chances left now to take this from him but are there too many who will be happy for a podium instead? You'd have to think Geraint, as a previous winner, isn't going to settle for second or third.

I agree. They need to unhitch JA on at least the Col de l'Iseran tomorrow otherwise he'll hang on like a limpet on the Tignes climb. Too many riders happy to settle for a shot at a top 5 finish rather than risk it for the big one. Personally it would be shit or bust for me. Who remembers anyone who finished second in a GT? (Apart from Laurent Fignon of course!!)

blazing_saddles

RichN95 wrote:

Quintana is less than four minutes down on GC. So that's less than 2.30 down on Bernal. He can still have a big influence on this race

He most certainly will, just as long as he doesn't pay for today's big effort.

blazing_saddles

Pross wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

Re the Thomas attack...

Presumably, the original tactic was for Bernal to go and Thomas to sit in while Pinot/Kruisjswik chased, dropping Alaphilippe.
That they didn't chase - or didn't chase hard enough - was probably taken as a sign that they didn't have legs, making it worth a shout to attack and gap them, possibly bridge to Bernal. It wasn't only Alaphilippe that could have been put into difficulty. It was a risk, and it eventually meant the GC group did pull time back on Bernal's lead, but it was worth a try I reckon. Had it come off you might have seen Ineos in 1st and 2nd this evening.

I agree with this, just felt they needed to make the move a bit earlier.

It paid off for both of them, though, as Alaphilippe didn't start the descent with G and the GC.
Could have been a different story if he had.

No_Ta_Doctor

hypster wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

Re the Thomas attack...

Presumably, the original tactic was for Bernal to go and Thomas to sit in while Pinot/Kruisjswik chased, dropping Alaphilippe.
That they didn't chase - or didn't chase hard enough - was probably taken as a sign that they didn't have legs, making it worth a shout to attack and gap them, possibly bridge to Bernal. It wasn't only Alaphilippe that could have been put into difficulty. It was a risk, and it eventually meant the GC group did pull time back on Bernal's lead, but it was worth a try I reckon. Had it come off you might have seen Ineos in 1st and 2nd this evening.

I think Thomas needs to go with Bernal and let the others chase if they can and crack Alaphilippe. Twice now Thomas has let Bernal go up the road only to drag Alaphilippe along rather than distancing him earlier and getting a bigger gap. If Thomas and Bernal had been together today they could have co-operated and maybe put time into all the contenders and even more into Alaphilippe. What Ineos are doing is not really working and they need to have a rethink.

I didn't understand DvB being in the break today either. If he'd have been there on the Izoard they might just have cracked Alaphilippe when Movistar upped the pace and whittled the group down. As it was Ineos only had Thomas, Bernal and Pouls struggling to stay with the group until the pace slowed and Castroviejo got back on.

Van Barle in the break was intended to be used later, on the Galibier descent. He was unlikely to have been able to force a high enough pace to do damage on the climb anyway. Ineos probably expected more from FDJ and Lotto-Jumbo, but didn't get it. Kwia and Castrovejo were both dropped on Izoard without going to the front - nothing says Van Barle would have held on there.

I don't think they got their tactics spot on, but they made a reasonable fist of it and took some chances where others didn't.

I also doubt there will be any real tension between Bernal and Thomas about the day's racing. They know Alaphilippe can be cracked on an MTF and they have two chances to do so. They also know that both Pinot and Kruijswijk are going well but not unbeatably so. They're now in prime position to crack Alaphilippe and make sure at least one of them doesn't lose time to an attack from below.

gsk82

The problem with this race is that theres only 1 winner in contention. He happens to be the weakest rider at this stage in the race. The rest aren't winners, just good riders

No_Ta_Doctor

hypster wrote:

Pross wrote:

Wasted opportunity to ditch JA today but I think they've now seen he is ready to crack and will go after him on a summit finish. Even with the downhill Bernal managed to take quite a chunk in a fairly short time. They've got 2 chances left now to take this from him but are there too many who will be happy for a podium instead? You'd have to think Geraint, as a previous winner, isn't going to settle for second or third.

I agree. They need to unhitch JA on at least the Col de l'Iseran tomorrow otherwise he'll hang on like a limpet on the Tignes climb. Too many riders happy to settle for a shot at a top 5 finish rather than risk it for the big one. Personally it would be shoot or bust for me. Who remembers anyone who finished second in a GT? (Apart from Laurent Fignon of course!!)

Problem is, which team will want to burn off their doms and make it GC riders only to do so? There's plenty of valley to ride after l'Iseran.

There is a time bonus at the top though.

I don't think they'll worry about it, they'll race the last half of Tignes, possibly with a quick run-in. They can probably drop Alahilippe for half a minute there and then break him for good on Val Thorens on Saturday.

KnightOfTheLongTights

Blazing Saddles wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Quintana is less than four minutes down on GC. So that's less than 2.30 down on Bernal. He can still have a big influence on this race

He most certainly will, just as long as he doesn't pay for today's big effort.

Yeah he might have blown his own legs off for the stage win knowing that he hasn't got the form for the GC (or he's been riding himself into some serious form the last two weeks).

hypster

No tA Doctor wrote:

I don't think they'll worry about it, they'll race the last half of Tignes, possibly with a quick run-in. They can probably drop Alahilippe for half a minute there and then break him for good on Val Thorens on Saturday.

Will they want to leave it that late though? The smart money seems to think despatch JA on Friday, win the race on Saturday. Trying to achieve both in one day could come unstuck.

No_Ta_Doctor

hypster wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

I don't think they'll worry about it, they'll race the last half of Tignes, possibly with a quick run-in. They can probably drop Alahilippe for half a minute there and then break him for good on Val Thorens on Saturday.

Will they want to leave it that late though? The smart money seems to think despatch JA on Friday, win the race on Saturday. Trying to achieve both in one day could come unstuck.

Not as risky as blowing hard in the valley after l'Iseran with nobody to help though. I think they'll ride it hard enough to shed his domestiques (he doesn't have a great deal of mountain support, we know already) and keep a couple of their own.

They'll take another nibble out of his time tomorrow and leave him knackered with a 33km ascent to altitude to save his jersey on Saturday. They're more worried Pinot could do them real damage on a climb. He didn't chase Bernal today but that could be calculated. He was better than Bernal in the Pyrenees.

hypster

I'm not sure what valley you're alluding to never having ridden that area but looking at the profile of the route it pretty much looks downhill all the way from the top of l'Iseran to the foot of the Tignes climb.

The gradients of that final climb don't look to me like they will trouble Alaphilippe in the mood he's in so they need to distance him well before that.

blazing_saddles

gsk82 wrote:

The problem with this race is that theres only 1 winner in contention. He happens to be the weakest rider at this stage in the race. The rest aren't winners, just good riders

Yohan Offredo?

No obviously you mean Geraint.
Can't see how you figure he was the weakest today, given he was the only other rider to mount any sort of an attack.

mididoctors

hypster wrote:

tommasi wrote:

Thank god the Sky train is dead.

Not dead, just resting waiting for the proper driver.

basically

mididoctors

RichN95 wrote:

Quintana is less than four minutes down on GC. So that's less than 2.30 down on Bernal. He can still have a big influence on this race

i think Movistar will go big on Saturday

mididoctors

ddraver wrote:

https://twitter.com/fmk_RoI/status/1154419525326180354?s=19

:?

Edit - Video - https://twitter.com/ProCyclingStats/sta ... 78208?s=19

(Roglic got 15 seconds for that on the Giro)

team helper as well..lol... roglic got a mega push thou.....:)

ddraver

Hefty fine but not time penalty apparently.

French conspiracy all over again...