TDF 2019, Stage 18: Embrun > Valloire 25/07/2019 - 208 km *Spoilers*
Comments
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TimothyW wrote:If I could open a can of worms, if JA does manage to do this, is there an argument that disc brakes are what helped him do it?
We know he went outstandingly in the TT on a technical course, with disc brakes.....
He's just ridden back to his rivals on the descent... with disc brakes.
Confident descending has certainly helped him maintain his position and gain time.
Discuss. I think it's been a factor (albeit a small one!)
He managed to catch back to a group which left Pinot, a poor descender at the front.
Quintana and Bernal both did just fine with rim brakes.0 -
Most of the big names are so concerned with not losing that they are handing it to Alaphillipe. They need to attack earlier and drop him rather than letting him sit on.0
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"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0
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alanparsons wrote:mididoctors wrote:ineos are in a good position. alaphillpe is bleeding time and they inherit by default.
pinot has to do damage tomorrow
Bleeding time to who??
He has basically lost 5 seconds today.
bernal ineos have to go all-in for him. if G can follow the chasers he follows hoping to counter"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
He lost time to Bernal but didn't lose much time to 2nd place so in effect he's no worse off than he was.
I think the pressure's on Pinot really, as David Brailsford was saying the other day there's two races - crack JA and then win the race. If JA does crack Pinot still needs to do something to dislodge Ineos to secure what's probably going to be his best chance of a GC win.0 -
I doubt if we'll see Quintana again though. Great ride obviously but was lucky to be allowed to be in the breakaway. That won't happen again.0
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I don't know why none of the other teams were so passive today. JA was on the ropes and it wouldn't have taken much from Pinot or Kruijswijk to have seen him lose a big gap over the Galibier. Instead they just sat in and lost out to Bernal. Ineos often get accused of being boring, but time after time when it's time for other teams to step up they wilt. Chapeau to JA though, that was gutsy.0
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G interviewed on ES, not overly bothered by the situation.0
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alanparsons wrote:mididoctors wrote:ineos are in a good position. alaphillpe is bleeding time and they inherit by default.
pinot has to do damage tomorrow
Bleeding time to who??
He has basically lost 5 seconds today.
I was thinking about G's attack just before the summit. My guess. The plan was to send Bernal up the road, have Thomas bridge to him, them they work together on the descent keeping JA at bay. Which didn't quite work.
Another facet of the attack though was to see what JA's legs are like on the ascents. And the answer is that he's not in a much better shape than he was on the last day in the Pyrenees. Now they know that they can crack him tomorrow quite convincingly - which makes this JA's last day in yellow.
The last 10k on Saturday should be interesting. Winner takes all.
ETA:jam1e wrote:He lost time to Bernal but didn't lose much time to 2nd place so in effect he's no worse off than he was.
I think the pressure's on Pinot really, as David Brailsford was saying the other day there's two races - crack JA and then win the race. If JA does crack Pinot still needs to do something to dislodge Ineos to secure what's probably going to be his best chance of a GC win.
^This. Tomorrow is crack JA. Saturday is win the race. Now they know tomorrow they can break JA so the focus is on how to beat Pinot on Saturday and who wins. With G 5s behind Bernal, it looks quite tricky for G to win without it being handed to him, or Bernal cracking (which doesn't seem that likely).0 -
G only 5 secs behind Bernal and looking decent. Could take yellow with a stage win tomorrow without even having to attack young Egan?0
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Alejandrosdog wrote:TimothyW wrote:If I could open a can of worms, if JA does manage to do this, is there an argument that disc brakes are what helped him do it?
We know he went outstandingly in the TT on a technical course, with disc brakes.....
He's just ridden back to his rivals on the descent... with disc brakes.
Confident descending has certainly helped him maintain his position and gain time.
Discuss. I think it's been a factor (albeit a small one!)
He got dropped using discs he got back on with discs on. Youre right theyre heavy, ruin the feel of a bike and dont add anything
They certainly don't seem to have hindered him, so they can't be that heavy, or ruin the feel that much... Unless you're saying JA is that good!
I think if I were having to chase on a descent I would prefer to do it with discs, certainly. I wouldn't put up with much extra weight, but with the 6.8kg limit it probably isn't that much difference.0 -
jam1e wrote:He lost time to Bernal but didn't lose much time to 2nd place so in effect he's no worse off than he was.
I think the pressure's on Pinot really, as David Brailsford was saying the other day there's two races - crack JA and then win the race. If JA does crack Pinot still needs to do something to dislodge Ineos to secure what's probably going to be his best chance of a GC win.
basically yeah
pinots problem is he will struggle to drop bernal"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
If they wait for the final 2kms of the Iseran, tomorrow, they are mugs.
The cracks in Alaphilippe are there for all to see. Somebody needs to go 8 on the Richter scale"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Ineos don't look strong enough to crack Alaphillippe... unless one of their leaders sacrifices themself."Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0
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Blazing Saddles wrote:If they wait for the final 2kms of the Iseran, tomorrow, they are mugs.
The cracks in Alaphilippe are there for all to see. Somebody needs to go 8 on the Richter scale
REally hard up the iseran and hell be gone. But who has the train?0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:If they wait for the final 2kms of the Iseran, tomorrow, they are mugs.
The cracks in Alaphilippe are there for all to see. Somebody needs to go 8 on the Richter scale
they are pinned tactically by being close to the other contenders.. their closeness discourages them to be "one"... so its Ineos and pinot basically with Movistar throwing the big wrench"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:alanparsons wrote:mididoctors wrote:ineos are in a good position. alaphillpe is bleeding time and they inherit by default.
pinot has to do damage tomorrow
Bleeding time to who??
He has basically lost 5 seconds today.
I was thinking about G's attack just before the summit. My guess. The plan was to send Bernal up the road, have Thomas bridge to him, them they work together on the descent keeping JA at bay. Which didn't quite work.
Another facet of the attack though was to see what JA's legs are like on the ascents. And the answer is that he's not in a much better shape than he was on the last day in the Pyrenees. Now they know that they can crack him tomorrow quite convincingly - which makes this JA's last day in yellow.
The last 10k on Saturday should be interesting. Winner takes all.
For Thomas' attack I think there was also an element of wanting to get a bit of a buffer on JA before the descent, and also not wanting Bernal to get too far ahead. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if he hadn't attacked.0 -
alaphillipe was seeing sheets of light cresting the galibier"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
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At the risk of angering some people, Allaphillipe is playing the Froome role now, no one (other than the super boring racers Ineos) have the guts to attack because they re worried they'll lose their current position.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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It's a perfect situation for Ineos really, in as much as it can be with JA in the lead.
Whichever of the two attacks, the other waits and watches while the other GC guys have to ride, or surrender the tour.
Hopefully when the other GC guys ride, they crack Alaphilippe again, then whoever didn't attack in the first place attacks.
Advantage Ineos either way. Seems reasonably likely that JA won't survive both the next two stages.0 -
Pinot said he had a bad day (he didn't look great during the race) which is why he couldn't go with Bernal. G isn't as strong as Bernal when it gets hard. If the race had finished on the Col du Galibier Bernal would have taken a minute out of JA and co.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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Alejandrosdog wrote:Blazing Saddles wrote:If they wait for the final 2kms of the Iseran, tomorrow, they are mugs.
The cracks in Alaphilippe are there for all to see. Somebody needs to go 8 on the Richter scale
REally hard up the iseran and hell be gone. But who has the train?
Movistar. If they sack off the "sending riders up the road" plan. But then cracking JA isn't their job. Jumbo Visma looked a bit weak today. Anyone know how bad Bennet's fall was?0 -
TimothyW wrote:
They certainly don't seem to have hindered him, so they can't be that heavy, or ruin the feel that much... Unless you're saying JA is that good!
I think if I were having to chase on a descent I would prefer to do it with discs, certainly. I wouldn't put up with much extra weight, but with the 6.8kg limit it probably isn't that much difference.
I think you are trying to convince yourself but Thomas had no reason to chase down Bernal and Pinot is pants so when JA arrived they let him go on the front and he didn't make inroads into Bernal's lead despite Bernal being a poorer descender.
It is normal for riders to regroup after a col if the gaps are small.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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I find Thomas' tactics a bit strange. Twice now he has held back while Bernal has gone up the road and then attacked too late to really crack Alaphilippe. I don't think he should be concerned that he is pulling Alaphilippe back to Bernal because in effect by waiting, that is exactly what he is doing. If he has the legs he needs to explode the group early and isolate Alaphilippe.
Movistar are a shambles as well. Have they any idea what they are doing or just making it up as they go along?0 -
BigMat wrote:Alejandrosdog wrote:Blazing Saddles wrote:If they wait for the final 2kms of the Iseran, tomorrow, they are mugs.
The cracks in Alaphilippe are there for all to see. Somebody needs to go 8 on the Richter scale
REally hard up the iseran and hell be gone. But who has the train?
Movistar. If they sack off the "sending riders up the road" plan. But then cracking JA isn't their job. Jumbo Visma looked a bit weak today. Anyone know how bad Bennet's fall was?
Lost 5'40" to the group he was with so i guess he just trundled in.0 -
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Quintana smiles on the podium!0
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hypster wrote:Quintana smiles on the podium!
Are those teeth made of wood??0 -
Bernal is the strongest Ineos rider and now is their best placed on GC.
Can’t see Thomas being faster than him in the next two days so he ought to play second fiddle.0 -
At some point Ineos are going to have to commit to a leader and use both their guys together so they can fight for 1st rather than just 2nd. At the moment a Thomas attack launching Bernal seems most viable.0
