TDF 2019: Stage 8, Mâcon > Saint-Étienne 13/07/2019 - 200 km *Spoilers*

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Comments

  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,868
    why did trek chase so hard early on?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • surfercyclist
    surfercyclist Posts: 894
    mididoctors wrote:
    TDG was fantastic

    This.

    He almost always is though going in the break but today he was exceptional and I'm so glad he held on to win.
  • bm5
    bm5 Posts: 530
    So happy that TDG won.
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,470
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Gif of the crash, here.
    As I thought at the time, Thomas was the one who came down hard on his back.

    https://twitter.com/pimentanuno/status/ ... 2742680577

    D_YhvsqWwAAHZYk.jpg

    No one touched him. He shit the bed and grabbed a whole load of front brake
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,816
    gsk82 wrote:
    No one touched him. He shoot the bed and grabbed a whole load of front brake

    You a right.
    Definitely should have been able to avoid that crash. After all, he had almost a whole wheel length and probably a quarter of a second.

    More about the motor pacing moans.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riders- ... to-yellow/


    I also noticed that Ineos were sharing the same hotel as Lotto last night. :P
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,744
    The motorbikes didn't look to be offering up any more advantage than they ever do - they have a job to do and inevitably riders who attack like that will get a little bit of assistance that is just part of the sport - I didn't see anything unusual. The bit about getting an advantage by looking at the brake lights of the motos is just silly.

    As for Thomas avoiding that crash- I agree with you there is no way in the world he's avoiding that - on a straight road he'd have a chance but banked into a corner at speed you can't just change line.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    Have said it before, TdG has gt overall talent in his legs but not in his head.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Have said it before, TdG has gt overall talent in his legs but not in his head.

    This actually annoys me enough that I don’t really enjoy his wins.
    _
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,868
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Have said it before, TdG has gt overall talent in his legs but not in his head.

    This actually annoys me enough that I don’t really enjoy his wins.

    why?

    does the sport need another GC contender or a TDG?

    the latter I say.


    which one of the GC contenders has the know-how/talent to do what he does? froomes giro attack was super sensational and brilliant but required a detailed plan and an army of sky road side staff to put into operation. this ride was tactically astute in the moment with various race decisions being assessed on the road in response to an evolving situation.... it all came together. one of the greatest rides ever. one for the ages...

    take it to the bank.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    gsk82 wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Gif of the crash, here.
    As I thought at the time, Thomas was the one who came down hard on his back.

    https://twitter.com/pimentanuno/status/ ... 2742680577

    D_YhvsqWwAAHZYk.jpg

    No one touched him. He shoot the bed and grabbed a whole load of front brake


    Errr are you suggesting that the upright Ineos in this photo with white glasses is Thomas?

    It's Castroviejo.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    mididoctors wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Have said it before, TdG has gt overall talent in his legs but not in his head.

    This actually annoys me enough that I don’t really enjoy his wins.

    why?

    does the sport need another GC contender or a TDG?

    the latter I say.


    which one of the GC contenders has the know-how/talent to do what he does? froomes giro attack was super sensational and brilliant but required a detailed plan and an army of sky road side staff to put into operation. this ride was tactically astute in the moment with various race decisions being assessed on the road in response to an evolving situation.... it all came together. one of the greatest rides ever. one for the ages...

    take it to the bank.

    No it’s not rational, and you’re right.

    I just feel it’s not a fair fight. It obviously is but in my mind your talents mean you ought to compete at your talent level.
    _
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,941
    Nibali losing 4 1/2 minutes was odd,no?
    He would need to be half an hour down before ever being allowed in a break
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,868
    edited July 2019
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Have said it before, TdG has gt overall talent in his legs but not in his head.

    This actually annoys me enough that I don’t really enjoy his wins.

    why?

    does the sport need another GC contender or a TDG?

    the latter I say.


    which one of the GC contenders has the know-how/talent to do what he does? froomes giro attack was super sensational and brilliant but required a detailed plan and an army of sky road side staff to put into operation. this ride was tactically astute in the moment with various race decisions being assessed on the road in response to an evolving situation.... it all came together. one of the greatest rides ever. one for the ages...

    take it to the bank.

    No it’s not rational, and you’re right.

    I just feel it’s not a fair fight. It obviously is but in my mind your talents mean you ought to compete at your talent level.


    he doesn't always win from the break.

    its not like terpstra and de Marchi ...not to mention king are donkeys or that the entire GC focused squads of the entire peloton were chasing him down... maybe he should ride with panniers full of lead shot to even it up a bit...?

    if the argument is he has wasted his potential ...then thank god he did.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    edited July 2019
    mididoctors wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Have said it before, TdG has gt overall talent in his legs but not in his head.

    This actually annoys me enough that I don’t really enjoy his wins.

    why?

    does the sport need another GC contender or a TDG?

    the latter I say.


    which one of the GC contenders has the know-how/talent to do what he does? froomes giro attack was super sensational and brilliant but required a detailed plan and an army of sky road side staff to put into operation. this ride was tactically astute in the moment with various race decisions being assessed on the road in response to an evolving situation.... it all came together. one of the greatest rides ever. one for the ages...

    take it to the bank.

    No it’s not rational, and you’re right.

    I just feel it’s not a fair fight. It obviously is but in my mind your talents mean you ought to compete at your talent level.


    he doesn't always win from the break.

    its not like terpstra and de Marchi ...not to mention king are donkeys or that the entire GC focused squads of the entire peloton were chasing him down... maybe he should ride with panniers full of lead shot to even it up a bit...?

    if its a case the argument is he has wasted his potential ...then thank god he did.

    I also think his talents are less useful in the current era.

    Not an argument just another point.

    He’s definitely wasted potential.
    _
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,816
    Brian Smith just said that in his opinion, that stage was up there with Froome's Giro stage 19 effort.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,941
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Nibali losing 4 1/2 minutes was odd,no?
    He would need to be half an hour down before ever being allowed in a break

    The only way it makes sense is if he's trying to win from a late attack from the GC group where he's let go - and trying to stay in the top ten.
    That seems like a lot of finessing.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,868
    Rick Chasey wrote:

    I also think his talents are less useful in the current era.

    Not an argument just another point.

    He’s definitely wasted potential.

    learn to love the TDG Rick.... you can do it.... breath in .. breathe out

    now say

    TDG is one of greatest riders of his or any other generation.



    feel better?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,744
    TailWindHome wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Nibali losing 4 1/2 minutes was odd,no?
    He would need to be half an hour down before ever being allowed in a break

    The only way it makes sense is if he's trying to win from a late attack from the GC group where he's let go - and trying to stay in the top ten.
    That seems like a lot of finessing.

    I'm assuming he actually blew - like you say if he wanted to ship some time then do it properly and it did show him pressing on after the climb as if he made at least a half hearted attempt to recatch the favourites or at least limit his losses.

    Maybe his head just wasn't in the GC - he decided to sit up and the team weren't happy - anything in the press today?
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    mididoctors wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:

    I also think his talents are less useful in the current era.

    Not an argument just another point.

    He’s definitely wasted potential.

    learn to love the TDG Rick.... you can do it.... breath in .. breathe out

    now say

    TDG is one of greatest riders of his or any other generation.



    feel better?

    Haha if he was his palmares would be better
    _
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,868
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:

    I also think his talents are less useful in the current era.

    Not an argument just another point.

    He’s definitely wasted potential.

    learn to love the TDG Rick.... you can do it.... breath in .. breathe out

    now say

    TDG is one of greatest riders of his or any other generation.



    feel better?

    Haha if he was his palmares would be better

    just goes to show how difficult it is to do...

    now try again...... deep breathes :wink:
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,470
    Above The Cows wrote:
    gsk82 wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Gif of the crash, here.
    As I thought at the time, Thomas was the one who came down hard on his back.

    https://twitter.com/pimentanuno/status/ ... 2742680577

    D_YhvsqWwAAHZYk.jpg

    No one touched him. He shoot the bed and grabbed a whole load of front brake


    Errr are you suggesting that the upright Ineos in this photo with white glasses is Thomas?

    It's Castroviejo.

    If you click the link it's a gif of a loaf of photos. Its a really good clip. Thomas didn't actually hit anyone. Not that I'm saying he should've avoided it. He had no chance
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • hypster
    hypster Posts: 1,229
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Brian Smith just said that in his opinion, that stage was up there with Froome's Giro stage 19 effort.

    As great as TDG's ride was yesterday there's absolutely no comparison between a known breakaway specialist surviving to take a stage and a GC favourite being able to ride away from the field to win a GT.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:

    I also think his talents are less useful in the current era.

    Not an argument just another point.

    He’s definitely wasted potential.

    learn to love the TDG Rick.... you can do it.... breath in .. breathe out

    now say

    TDG is one of greatest riders of his or any other generation.



    feel better?

    Haha if he was his palmares would be better

    I don't think its wasted potential really, unless you think he could be a GT winner or multiple GT winner (I don't, really - that 3rd in the Giro is probably his top level)

    Surely it is better to be the most renowned breakaway specialist of his generation than another mediocre GC rider - we've got enough Portes, Ladygardens etc already. But there's only one Thomas de Gendt!
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Have said it before, TdG has gt overall talent in his legs but not in his head.

    This actually annoys me enough that I don’t really enjoy his wins.

    why?

    does the sport need another GC contender or a TDG?

    the latter I say.


    which one of the GC contenders has the know-how/talent to do what he does? froomes giro attack was super sensational and brilliant but required a detailed plan and an army of sky road side staff to put into operation. this ride was tactically astute in the moment with various race decisions being assessed on the road in response to an evolving situation.... it all came together. one of the greatest rides ever. one for the ages...

    take it to the bank.

    No it’s not rational, and you’re right.

    I just feel it’s not a fair fight. It obviously is but in my mind your talents mean you ought to compete at your talent level.

    By your earlier statement he already is competing at his level. A GT rider needs to be the full package.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    Alejandrosdog wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Have said it before, TdG has gt overall talent in his legs but not in his head.

    This actually annoys me enough that I don’t really enjoy his wins.

    why?

    does the sport need another GC contender or a TDG?

    the latter I say.


    which one of the GC contenders has the know-how/talent to do what he does? froomes giro attack was super sensational and brilliant but required a detailed plan and an army of sky road side staff to put into operation. this ride was tactically astute in the moment with various race decisions being assessed on the road in response to an evolving situation.... it all came together. one of the greatest rides ever. one for the ages...

    take it to the bank.

    No it’s not rational, and you’re right.

    I just feel it’s not a fair fight. It obviously is but in my mind your talents mean you ought to compete at your talent level.

    By your earlier statement he already is competing at his level. A GT rider needs to be the full package.

    Physiologically he is.
    _
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,343
    Can he TT?
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    M.R.M. wrote:
    Can he TT?

    Yes
    _
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    He needs the whole thing not just the physical attributes.
  • drhaggis
    drhaggis Posts: 1,150
    The thing is, are TdG's numbers any better than, say, Rui Costa? Mind you, a WC, with World Tour 1 week GC wins. Or van Garderen? And look at how "little" van Garderen has won.

    Rick has a point, in that de Gendt is good enough all-around to be a potential GC rider. His ride on strava has an average 350W for 5h, for Christ's sake. However, I don't think he climbs good enough, or TT's well enough, to be a real, regular podium contender. He's mentioned focusing on GC's in the past, after his podium in the Giro, but not really working out. As it is, he has seemingly found his own niche, and is the sort of rider appreciated by cycling fans all around the world. It's not clear to me how that's any worse than struggling between 7th and 13th in GC's (and these are all outliers)
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    DrHaggis wrote:
    The thing is, are TdG's numbers any better than, say, Rui Costa? Mind you, a WC, with World Tour 1 week GC wins. Or van Garderen? And look at how "little" van Garderen has won.

    Rick has a point, in that de Gendt is good enough all-around to be a potential GC rider. His ride on strava has an average 350W for 5h, for Christ's sake. However, I don't think he climbs good enough, or TT's well enough, to be a real, regular podium contender. He's mentioned focusing on GC's in the past, after his podium in the Giro, but not really working out. As it is, he has seemingly found his own niche, and is the sort of rider appreciated by cycling fans all around the world. It's not clear to me how that's any worse than struggling between 7th and 13th in GC's (and these are all outliers)
    This is just what I said further up - surely he's best off being the most renowned breakaway rider of his generation than being more GC padding material.

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