Arts Quiz

briantrumpet

Right, as a diversion from politics 'n' stuff...

I visited somewhere today, and was delighted by what I saw. I like trying to make judgements about things I see, then finding out how right or wrong I was later.

So, your little quiz: tell us what you think of the artistry on display in these two faces, what the influences might have been, and what sort of date they were done.

rjsterry

briantrumpet wrote:

Right, as a diversion from politics 'n' stuff...

I visited somewhere today, and was delighted by what I saw. I like trying to make judgements about things I see, then finding out how right or wrong I was later.

So, your little quiz: tell us what you think of the artistry on display in these two faces, what the influences might have been, and what sort of date they were done.

There's definitely some medieval influences but I would guess they are much more recent - possibly mid 20th century

robert88

OK, I'll have a go!

Both are carved in oak, a tough wood to use being stringy and hard. Maybe the lower one is carved using green oak making it slightly easier but more likely to split, which it has done.

Both carvings share decorative features: the stamped, stippled square and the capital H shaped repetition. Suggests that despite the differences, the carvings are from the same culture and the features might have some meaning.

The top one is a very skilled production from a technical aspect, the carving is very well performed and must have taken a great deal longer to produce. The face is very masculine.

The lower one has required much less effort and the face is feminine. Both carvers have captured a facial expression well.

I'd hazard a guess the upper one is German, 18th or 19th century, whereas the lower one might be French and much older.

Now tell me I am barking totally up the wrong tree. :oops:

briantrumpet

Both interesting answers! I'll reveal all later tonight if/when others have had a go.

Stevo_666

A nice change from the political stuff Brian. I'll have a stab even though I'm likely to be way off the mark as my knowledge in this area is pretty poor.

I am guessing the theme is something around death and hell/purgatory - common theme for those times which I reckon is 15th or 16th century. The first pic shows the face part 'submerged' in the wood and in the second pic the way the eyes look suggest she could be dead or dying?

I'll have another guess and say it's Dutch as the hat of the female figure in the second pic looks like part of those traditional Dutch outfits.

sungod

clearly the liar johnson burning in a hell of his own making while saint may looks on with a smug 'told you so'

but as it was supposed to be non-political, soz

briantrumpet

Keep 'em coming... perceptive answers still. Here's one more (sorry about the quality of the photo)... you can revisit your answers if this changes your view...

rjsterry

briantrumpet wrote:

Keep 'em coming... perceptive answers still. Here's one more (sorry about the quality of the photo)... you can revisit your answers if this changes your view...

Yes, I think that last one may have changed my view. Some of the 20th century carving was influenced by earlier 'folk art' and I thought I might be seeing some of that in the second image. But the woman's dress looks earlier than 20th century: late 18th or 19th century, but not 15th or 16th century.

Stevo_666

Given where your overseas base is Brian, I'm going to say 19th century French.

briantrumpet

Answers at about 9pm, if anyone else wants to chip in before the big reveal...

orraloon

About zis I 'ave no clue. Interested in the reveal though.

rjsterry

Hang on; that woman in the third image appears to have a moustache :?

webboo

rjsterry wrote:

Hang on; that woman in the third image appears to have a moustache :?

Are you sure it’s not snot.

briantrumpet

rjsterry wrote:

Hang on; that woman in the third image appears to have a moustache :?

I wondered if you'd notice...

briantrumpet

orraloon wrote:

About zis I 'ave no clue. Interested in the reveal though.

The thing is, you don't need to be an expert for this game... it's like me with looking at Devon churches, I've learnt a lot by using first principles ("How old does that look compared with that?" "Does that remind me of anywhere else?" etc.), then looking stuff up later, and seeing how stupid my hunches were. Actually, it doesn't take long to get a bit of a handle.

So, I'm always thinking "Is there anything anywhere in my experience I can refer to?" to come up with hunches. It's a fun game, even if you only find out how little you know.

orraloon

There is a faint chime of a bell with the 2nd picture. Have not yet worked out from where, what, when...

briantrumpet

Right, the moment you've been waiting for...

Oh, Stevo, you were doing so well (apart from the Dutch bit), and then a last-minute swerve!

They are just three of an astonishing collection (nearly 50) of early 16th century bench ends at East Budleigh Church (the one with the Raleigh coat of arms is dated). https://briantrumpet.wordpress.com/2019 ... ench-ends/

They are just so vivid, and so crazy, they actually reminded me of Dali-esque surrealism, and could so easily have been early 20th century, not least as some of the carving is as crisp as the day it was done. The characterisation is extraordinary in the many faces (and lots of non-Western faces too). (You can barely see the '(wo)man with the moustache', as it's tucked away in a corner.) And they are just sitting there, where they have been for 500 years, in a humble parish church, open to the public. You just have to go in, marvel, and touch them. It's really quite moving, even for a person without a religious bone in his body.

rjsterry wrote:

But the woman's dress looks earlier than 20th century: late 18th or 19th century, but not 15th or 16th century.

Sorry, the third face was a sneaky trick. But it does look very Dali.

Stevo_666

Nice one Brian, I suppose there were clues in your post but those carvings are pretty unique. I also like some of the historical stuff in churches and cathedrals - nothing religious, but how our ancestors lived is pretty fascinating.

Are you going to do another one?

briantrumpet

Stevo 666 wrote:

Nice one Brian, I suppose there were clues in your post but those carvings are pretty unique. I also like some of the historical stuff in churches and cathedrals - nothing religious, but how our ancestors lived is pretty fascinating.

Are you going to do another one?

If I get something suitably interesting, yes, sure (but don't hold your breath). I might get one or two interesting things in France this summer. It would be nice, too, if anyone else felt like giving us a poser.

But these struck me as so interesting, as I couldn't really believe they were so old - just goes to show: human imagination has always been a rich source of fantasy and invention.

rjsterry

briantrumpet wrote:

Right, the moment you've been waiting for...

Oh, Stevo, you were doing so well (apart from the Dutch bit), and then a last-minute swerve!

They are just three of an astonishing collection (nearly 50) of early 16th century bench ends at East Budleigh Church (the one with the Raleigh coat of arms is dated). https://briantrumpet.wordpress.com/2019 ... ench-ends/

They are just so vivid, and so crazy, they actually reminded me of Dali-esque surrealism, and could so easily have been early 20th century, not least as some of the carving is as crisp as the day it was done. The characterisation is extraordinary in the many faces (and lots of non-Western faces too). (You can barely see the '(wo)man with the moustache', as it's tucked away in a corner.) And they are just sitting there, where they have been for 500 years, in a humble parish church, open to the public. You just have to go in, marvel, and touch them. It's really quite moving, even for a person without a religious bone in his body.

rjsterry wrote:

But the woman's dress looks earlier than 20th century: late 18th or 19th century, but not 15th or 16th century.

Sorry, the third face was a sneaky trick. But it does look very Dali.

Should have realised when virtually all the carved oak panels you can view online are 16th century, and they do all have a vigour and confidence that the more 'correct' stuff lacks. And not even featured in Simon Jenkins 1000 Best Churches book. Will have to have a nose when I'm down that way next.

pinno

I was going to say Tudor due to the frilly neck line garment on the 3rd pic and tea cosy head dress on the 2nd picture :roll:
Other than that, a wild guess. My pre 1900 historical knowledge is poor.

briantrumpet

rjsterry wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

Right, the moment you've been waiting for...

Oh, Stevo, you were doing so well (apart from the Dutch bit), and then a last-minute swerve!

They are just three of an astonishing collection (nearly 50) of early 16th century bench ends at East Budleigh Church (the one with the Raleigh coat of arms is dated). https://briantrumpet.wordpress.com/2019 ... ench-ends/

They are just so vivid, and so crazy, they actually reminded me of Dali-esque surrealism, and could so easily have been early 20th century, not least as some of the carving is as crisp as the day it was done. The characterisation is extraordinary in the many faces (and lots of non-Western faces too). (You can barely see the '(wo)man with the moustache', as it's tucked away in a corner.) And they are just sitting there, where they have been for 500 years, in a humble parish church, open to the public. You just have to go in, marvel, and touch them. It's really quite moving, even for a person without a religious bone in his body.

rjsterry wrote:

But the woman's dress looks earlier than 20th century: late 18th or 19th century, but not 15th or 16th century.

Sorry, the third face was a sneaky trick. But it does look very Dali.

Should have realised when virtually all the carved oak panels you can view online are 16th century, and they do all have a vigour and confidence that the more 'correct' stuff lacks. And not even featured in Simon Jenkins 1000 Best Churches book. Will have to have a nose when I'm down that way next.

If you are down, and are interested, not far away is Plymtree, which also has some superb carved bench ends (though in a somewhat distressed state, and not quite of the same range or interest), as well as an amazing medieval screen.

briantrumpet

Pinno wrote:

I was going to say Tudor due to the frilly neck line garment on the 3rd pic and tea cosy head dress on the 2nd picture :roll:
Other than that, a wild guess. My pre 1900 historical knowledge is poor.

I like wild guesses based on whatever you happen to know - even with just one or two reference points it's sometimes surprising with what you can come up with.

rjsterry

briantrumpet wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

Right, the moment you've been waiting for...

Oh, Stevo, you were doing so well (apart from the Dutch bit), and then a last-minute swerve!

They are just three of an astonishing collection (nearly 50) of early 16th century bench ends at East Budleigh Church (the one with the Raleigh coat of arms is dated). https://briantrumpet.wordpress.com/2019 ... ench-ends/

They are just so vivid, and so crazy, they actually reminded me of Dali-esque surrealism, and could so easily have been early 20th century, not least as some of the carving is as crisp as the day it was done. The characterisation is extraordinary in the many faces (and lots of non-Western faces too). (You can barely see the '(wo)man with the moustache', as it's tucked away in a corner.) And they are just sitting there, where they have been for 500 years, in a humble parish church, open to the public. You just have to go in, marvel, and touch them. It's really quite moving, even for a person without a religious bone in his body.

rjsterry wrote:

But the woman's dress looks earlier than 20th century: late 18th or 19th century, but not 15th or 16th century.

Sorry, the third face was a sneaky trick. But it does look very Dali.

Should have realised when virtually all the carved oak panels you can view online are 16th century, and they do all have a vigour and confidence that the more 'correct' stuff lacks. And not even featured in Simon Jenkins 1000 Best Churches book. Will have to have a nose when I'm down that way next.

If you are down, and are interested, not far away is Plymtree, which also has some superb carved bench ends (though in a somewhat distressed state, and not quite of the same range or interest), as well as an amazing medieval screen.

Thanks. I'll have to work out a cunning plan to drag the family round.

rjsterry

Right. Here's my offering.

briantrumpet

rjsterry wrote:

Right. Here's my offering.

My turn to feel inadequate - not sure of any points of reference. Must be pretty recent. I'm guessing it's of someone in particular, but I've no idea who.

briantrumpet

rjsterry wrote:

Thanks. I'll have to work out a cunning plan to drag the family round.

Both are open through the day, BTW.

If you're into churches, these two feature in Todd Gray's 'Devon Fifty Best Churches' - he focuses on interiors and contents, rather than the buildings/structures. Extremely interesting for me, as up till now I've been much more into their exteriors.

rjsterry

briantrumpet wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Thanks. I'll have to work out a cunning plan to drag the family round.

Both are open through the day, BTW.

If you're into churches, these two feature in Todd Gray's 'Devon Fifty Best Churches' - he focuses on interiors and contents, rather than the buildings/structures. Extremely interesting for me, as up till now I've been much more into their exteriors.

Thanks again. I'll look out for that. The Simon Jenkins book is good, but of necessity a bit brief on each entry.

briantrumpet

rjsterry wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Thanks. I'll have to work out a cunning plan to drag the family round.

Both are open through the day, BTW.

If you're into churches, these two feature in Todd Gray's 'Devon Fifty Best Churches' - he focuses on interiors and contents, rather than the buildings/structures. Extremely interesting for me, as up till now I've been much more into their exteriors.

Thanks again. I'll look out for that. The Simon Jenkins book is good, but of necessity a bit brief on each entry.

Just ordered a 2nd-hand copy - thanks... will be handy if elsewhere in the UK, and need a little guidance where's good.

twotoebenny

rjsterry wrote:

Right. Here's my offering.

This one is easy... it's clearly Voldemort

pinno

rjsterry wrote:

Right. Here's my offering.

Can't see the image RJST