Seemingly trivial things that intrigue you

focuszing723

To observe and explore has to be any intelligences interest.

focuszing723

I think I've outstayed my welcome again now haven't I. Phfffff

Live long and prosper fellow cakeists.

Stevo_666

focuszing723 said:

Stevo_666 said:

shirley_basso said:

Stevo_666 said:

The Fermi Paradox is worth a read for those who are interested in this sort of thing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

I love this.

Either - Earth contains the only intelligent life in all of the universe
OR - There is intelligent life out there.

Either way - screws with your head

My theory is that there is intelligent life elsewhere but a combination of the unimaginable distances involved, the difficulties in preserving life while travelling those sorts of distances & speeds and the likely finite lifespan of intelligent species (or maybe any species) means we have not seen any evidence of alien life.

The possibility of finding some form of life elsewhere in the solar system is also really interesting, as if we do it would at least show that life on Earth is not a total freak event.

Earth though, 4.5bn / Universe 13.8bn years and look what we've achieved in a relative blink of an eye.

I mean Christ, we're on the cusp of an AI (intelligent matter) evolution/revolution and then it's going to be incomprehensibly rapid.

We have but our lifespan as a species may well be a relative blink of an eye in cosmological terms. Which may account may account part of the lack of evidence if we don't exist at the same time as alien civilisations. I can see how sending AI out to the stars could work, but still not convinced that its viable for biological life.

shirley_basso

Our lifespan is a relative blink of the eye even in terms of intelligent life on earth!

surrey_commuter

focuszing723 said:

Have any of you watched the trained long serving Naval fighter pilots accounts? I just can't believe there is a wordly explanation and that they'd throw their lives into scrutiny for the hell of it. It takes some guts to go Infront of the media with this.

Oh they're just government stooges...

Other than watching Top Gun how many fighter pilots do you know?

why do you put so much faith in their testimony?

kingstongraham

I just added up the calories in afternoon tea at a posh place - 2,400 calories if you eat one of everything...

First.Aspect

kingstongraham said:

I just added up the calories in afternoon tea at a posh place - 2,400 calories if you eat one of everything...

Not too bad. Go for it.

kingstongraham

First.Aspect said:

kingstongraham said:

I just added up the calories in afternoon tea at a posh place - 2,400 calories if you eat one of everything...

Not too bad. Go for it.

I have before, just less surprised now how I felt after getting through extra scones.

rjsterry

focuszing723 said:

While our ancestors have been around for about six million years, the modern form of humans only evolved about 200,000 years ago. Civilization as we know it is only about 6,000 years old, and industrialization started in the earnest only in the 1800s.

And now we've sent probes to other planets and physically landed on one.

It's a certainty.

The one that is immediately adjacent to us in astronomical terms and that takes 7 months to reach. You haven't got your head around how far away the next star is.

First.Aspect

rjsterry said:

focuszing723 said:

While our ancestors have been around for about six million years, the modern form of humans only evolved about 200,000 years ago. Civilization as we know it is only about 6,000 years old, and industrialization started in the earnest only in the 1800s.

And now we've sent probes to other planets and physically landed on one.

It's a certainty.

The one that is immediately adjacent to us in astronomical terms and that takes 7 months to reach. You haven't got your head around how far away the next star is.

The odds of there being life elsewhere during the history of the universe is high. It is just chemistry.

The odds of it existing at the same time as us is low. The odds of it existing close enough for it to be possible for us to be aware of it during the period that human civilization exists is lower still, because to be aware of it we will need to receive an electromagnetic signal of some sort. Which, if artifical, would be even more diminishing unlikely, and if a spectroscopic signal, quite unlikely to be conclusive. We are quite likely at some point to find somewhere with a promising atmosphere, and calculate roughly the temperature. We may even see absorption bands associated with atmospheric chemical species or a blend, that we consider consistent with life by analogy woth our atmosphere. But almost without exception there would be explanations other than presence of life.

So we are alone, basically. Get used to it.

laurentian

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

focuszing723 said:

While our ancestors have been around for about six million years, the modern form of humans only evolved about 200,000 years ago. Civilization as we know it is only about 6,000 years old, and industrialization started in the earnest only in the 1800s.

And now we've sent probes to other planets and physically landed on one.

It's a certainty.

The one that is immediately adjacent to us in astronomical terms and that takes 7 months to reach. You haven't got your head around how far away the next star is.

The odds of there being life elsewhere during the history of the universe is high. It is just chemistry.

The odds of it existing at the same time as us is low. The odds of it existing close enough for it to be possible for us to be aware of it during the period that human civilization exists is lower still, because to be aware of it we will need to receive an electromagnetic signal of some sort. Which, if artifical, would be even more diminishing unlikely, and if a spectroscopic signal, quite unlikely to be conclusive. We are quite likely at some point to find somewhere with a promising atmosphere, and calculate roughly the temperature. We may even see absorption bands associated with atmospheric chemical species or a blend, that we consider consistent with life by analogy woth our atmosphere. But almost without exception there would be explanations other than presence of life.

So we are alone, basically. Get used to it.

During such discussions, I'm always taken back to this:

https://www.planetary.org/worlds/pale-blue-dot

briantrumpet

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

focuszing723 said:

While our ancestors have been around for about six million years, the modern form of humans only evolved about 200,000 years ago. Civilization as we know it is only about 6,000 years old, and industrialization started in the earnest only in the 1800s.

And now we've sent probes to other planets and physically landed on one.

It's a certainty.

The one that is immediately adjacent to us in astronomical terms and that takes 7 months to reach. You haven't got your head around how far away the next star is.

The odds of there being life elsewhere during the history of the universe is high. It is just chemistry.

The odds of it existing at the same time as us is low. The odds of it existing close enough for it to be possible for us to be aware of it during the period that human civilization exists is lower still, because to be aware of it we will need to receive an electromagnetic signal of some sort. Which, if artifical, would be even more diminishing unlikely, and if a spectroscopic signal, quite unlikely to be conclusive. We are quite likely at some point to find somewhere with a promising atmosphere, and calculate roughly the temperature. We may even see absorption bands associated with atmospheric chemical species or a blend, that we consider consistent with life by analogy woth our atmosphere. But almost without exception there would be explanations other than presence of life.

So we are alone, basically. Get used to it.

When I'm not sure even what "at the same time" implies in such discussions, I'm confortable with my not trying to think about it or consider that we might actually be, in practical terms, the only sentient beings in a universe which I can't even begin to comprehend. So I'll keep blowing raspberries into lumps of metal and riding bikes while I'm lucky enough to be sentient.

focuszing723

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

focuszing723 said:

While our ancestors have been around for about six million years, the modern form of humans only evolved about 200,000 years ago. Civilization as we know it is only about 6,000 years old, and industrialization started in the earnest only in the 1800s.

And now we've sent probes to other planets and physically landed on one.

It's a certainty.

The one that is immediately adjacent to us in astronomical terms and that takes 7 months to reach. You haven't got your head around how far away the next star is.

The odds of there being life elsewhere during the history of the universe is high. It is just chemistry.

The odds of it existing at the same time as us is low. The odds of it existing close enough for it to be possible for us to be aware of it during the period that human civilization exists is lower still, because to be aware of it we will need to receive an electromagnetic signal of some sort. Which, if artifical, would be even more diminishing unlikely, and if a spectroscopic signal, quite unlikely to be conclusive. We are quite likely at some point to find somewhere with a promising atmosphere, and calculate roughly the temperature. We may even see absorption bands associated with atmospheric chemical species or a blend, that we consider consistent with life by analogy woth our atmosphere. But almost without exception there would be explanations other than presence of life.

So we are alone, basically. Get used to it.

You're assumptions are made on your current knowledge, in a hundred, thousand, million, billion years. Would you update your judgement? The answer, damn tootin.

Would you have believed we'd be communicating like this as a kid on wireless devices, answer, no.

Like I've said, I'm right, you're all wrong.

Live long and prosper.

First.Aspect

focuszing723 said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

focuszing723 said:

While our ancestors have been around for about six million years, the modern form of humans only evolved about 200,000 years ago. Civilization as we know it is only about 6,000 years old, and industrialization started in the earnest only in the 1800s.

And now we've sent probes to other planets and physically landed on one.

It's a certainty.

The one that is immediately adjacent to us in astronomical terms and that takes 7 months to reach. You haven't got your head around how far away the next star is.

The odds of there being life elsewhere during the history of the universe is high. It is just chemistry.

The odds of it existing at the same time as us is low. The odds of it existing close enough for it to be possible for us to be aware of it during the period that human civilization exists is lower still, because to be aware of it we will need to receive an electromagnetic signal of some sort. Which, if artifical, would be even more diminishing unlikely, and if a spectroscopic signal, quite unlikely to be conclusive. We are quite likely at some point to find somewhere with a promising atmosphere, and calculate roughly the temperature. We may even see absorption bands associated with atmospheric chemical species or a blend, that we consider consistent with life by analogy woth our atmosphere. But almost without exception there would be explanations other than presence of life.

So we are alone, basically. Get used to it.

You're assumptions are made on your current knowledge, in a hundred, thousand, million, billion years. Would you update your judgement? The answer, damn tootin.

Would you have believed we'd be communicating like this as a kid on wireless devices, answer, no.

Like I've said, I'm right, you're all wrong.

Live long and prosper.

No, it isn't, it's based on things like physics and chemistry.

I think it is quite optimistic to think that we might be able to see signatures of gasses in sunlight filtered through a distant atmosphere that might suggest even the conditions suitable for life. Don't you think that would be amazing?

First.Aspect

briantrumpet said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

focuszing723 said:

While our ancestors have been around for about six million years, the modern form of humans only evolved about 200,000 years ago. Civilization as we know it is only about 6,000 years old, and industrialization started in the earnest only in the 1800s.

And now we've sent probes to other planets and physically landed on one.

It's a certainty.

The one that is immediately adjacent to us in astronomical terms and that takes 7 months to reach. You haven't got your head around how far away the next star is.

The odds of there being life elsewhere during the history of the universe is high. It is just chemistry.

The odds of it existing at the same time as us is low. The odds of it existing close enough for it to be possible for us to be aware of it during the period that human civilization exists is lower still, because to be aware of it we will need to receive an electromagnetic signal of some sort. Which, if artifical, would be even more diminishing unlikely, and if a spectroscopic signal, quite unlikely to be conclusive. We are quite likely at some point to find somewhere with a promising atmosphere, and calculate roughly the temperature. We may even see absorption bands associated with atmospheric chemical species or a blend, that we consider consistent with life by analogy woth our atmosphere. But almost without exception there would be explanations other than presence of life.

So we are alone, basically. Get used to it.

When I'm not sure even what "at the same time" implies in such discussions, I'm confortable with my not trying to think about it or consider that we might actually be, in practical terms, the only sentient beings in a universe which I can't even begin to comprehend. So I'll keep blowing raspberries into lumps of metal and riding bikes while I'm lucky enough to be sentient.

Well, we've existed as a species for a tiny proportion of the age of the universe, and the odds are that sentient life elsewhere (whatever you think that is, or is not) has either come and gone already, or hasn't happened yet. And consider the hypothetical signal detected by Seti - since the light that reaches us from the overwhelming majority of the universe going to have left its source before our species existed or its journey here spanned the time for a few mass extinction events to come and go here, there are pretty good odds that the species sending it no longer exists.

There's a fairly well known equation for this, and the answer always comes out so close to zero you'd be better off entering the national lottery.

Btw, if anyone thinks that faster than light travel, or even faster than light transmission of information other than on a quantum scale or as a mathematical concept, is possible, I regret to disappoint. Physics, see.

rjsterry

First.Aspect said:

briantrumpet said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

focuszing723 said:

While our ancestors have been around for about six million years, the modern form of humans only evolved about 200,000 years ago. Civilization as we know it is only about 6,000 years old, and industrialization started in the earnest only in the 1800s.

And now we've sent probes to other planets and physically landed on one.

It's a certainty.

The one that is immediately adjacent to us in astronomical terms and that takes 7 months to reach. You haven't got your head around how far away the next star is.

The odds of there being life elsewhere during the history of the universe is high. It is just chemistry.

The odds of it existing at the same time as us is low. The odds of it existing close enough for it to be possible for us to be aware of it during the period that human civilization exists is lower still, because to be aware of it we will need to receive an electromagnetic signal of some sort. Which, if artifical, would be even more diminishing unlikely, and if a spectroscopic signal, quite unlikely to be conclusive. We are quite likely at some point to find somewhere with a promising atmosphere, and calculate roughly the temperature. We may even see absorption bands associated with atmospheric chemical species or a blend, that we consider consistent with life by analogy woth our atmosphere. But almost without exception there would be explanations other than presence of life.

So we are alone, basically. Get used to it.

When I'm not sure even what "at the same time" implies in such discussions, I'm confortable with my not trying to think about it or consider that we might actually be, in practical terms, the only sentient beings in a universe which I can't even begin to comprehend. So I'll keep blowing raspberries into lumps of metal and riding bikes while I'm lucky enough to be sentient.

Well, we've existed as a species for a tiny proportion of the age of the universe, and the odds are that sentient life elsewhere (whatever you think that is, or is not) has either come and gone already, or hasn't happened yet. And consider the hypothetical signal detected by Seti - since the light that reaches us from the overwhelming majority of the universe going to have left its source before our species existed or its journey here spanned the time for a few mass extinction events to come and go here, there are pretty good odds that the species sending it no longer exists.

There's a fairly well known equation for this, and the answer always comes out so close to zero you'd be better off entering the national lottery.

Btw, if anyone thinks that faster than light travel, or even faster than light transmission of information other than on a quantum scale or as a mathematical concept, is possible, I regret to disappoint. Physics, see.

In short, if we've heard from them they are already dead and if they're not already dead we won't have heard from them.

Stevo_666

My view is somewhere between FA and FZ. While I am pretty sure the there is/has been/will be intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, the chance of us coming across evidence of it is vanishingly small, mainly due to the mind boggling distances and timescales involved.

So effectively we are alone.

If that sounds a bit profound, this song sums it up quite well.
https://youtu.be/buqtdpuZxvk
"And pray that there's intelligent life out there in space,
'cause there's bugger all down here on Earth"

First.Aspect

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

briantrumpet said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

focuszing723 said:

While our ancestors have been around for about six million years, the modern form of humans only evolved about 200,000 years ago. Civilization as we know it is only about 6,000 years old, and industrialization started in the earnest only in the 1800s.

And now we've sent probes to other planets and physically landed on one.

It's a certainty.

The one that is immediately adjacent to us in astronomical terms and that takes 7 months to reach. You haven't got your head around how far away the next star is.

The odds of there being life elsewhere during the history of the universe is high. It is just chemistry.

The odds of it existing at the same time as us is low. The odds of it existing close enough for it to be possible for us to be aware of it during the period that human civilization exists is lower still, because to be aware of it we will need to receive an electromagnetic signal of some sort. Which, if artifical, would be even more diminishing unlikely, and if a spectroscopic signal, quite unlikely to be conclusive. We are quite likely at some point to find somewhere with a promising atmosphere, and calculate roughly the temperature. We may even see absorption bands associated with atmospheric chemical species or a blend, that we consider consistent with life by analogy woth our atmosphere. But almost without exception there would be explanations other than presence of life.

So we are alone, basically. Get used to it.

When I'm not sure even what "at the same time" implies in such discussions, I'm confortable with my not trying to think about it or consider that we might actually be, in practical terms, the only sentient beings in a universe which I can't even begin to comprehend. So I'll keep blowing raspberries into lumps of metal and riding bikes while I'm lucky enough to be sentient.

Well, we've existed as a species for a tiny proportion of the age of the universe, and the odds are that sentient life elsewhere (whatever you think that is, or is not) has either come and gone already, or hasn't happened yet. And consider the hypothetical signal detected by Seti - since the light that reaches us from the overwhelming majority of the universe going to have left its source before our species existed or its journey here spanned the time for a few mass extinction events to come and go here, there are pretty good odds that the species sending it no longer exists.

There's a fairly well known equation for this, and the answer always comes out so close to zero you'd be better off entering the national lottery.

Btw, if anyone thinks that faster than light travel, or even faster than light transmission of information other than on a quantum scale or as a mathematical concept, is possible, I regret to disappoint. Physics, see.

In short, if we've heard from them they are already dead and if they're not already dead we won't have heard from them.

Carl Sagan couldn't have put it better.

I would add that if they create a signal strong enough to be measured here, they probably also just blew themselves up.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

focuszing723 said:

While our ancestors have been around for about six million years, the modern form of humans only evolved about 200,000 years ago. Civilization as we know it is only about 6,000 years old, and industrialization started in the earnest only in the 1800s.

And now we've sent probes to other planets and physically landed on one.

It's a certainty.

The one that is immediately adjacent to us in astronomical terms and that takes 7 months to reach. You haven't got your head around how far away the next star is.

If Voyager 1 was headed to the nearest star, the Alpha Centauri system, it would take 73,000 years to get there.

morstar

focuszing723 said:

Have any of you watched the trained long serving Naval fighter pilots accounts? I just can't believe there is a wordly explanation and that they'd throw their lives into scrutiny for the hell of it. It takes some guts to go Infront of the media with this.

Oh they're just government stooges...

Finally, you got there with the last sentence.

There is always a connection to the US military in all of these ‘credible’ cases.

That is not some bizarre coincidence.

orraloon

No worries, the Muskrat launched his Tesla into... somewhere... so The Answer will be revealed, to subscribers of course, any time soon. I can hardly wait.

focuszing723

Australian political commentator Caitlin Johnstone pointed out that this resurgence of UFO/UAP coverage is coincident with a renewed U.S. emphasis on weaponizing space: "Is it a coincidence that this new UFO narrative began its rollout in 2017, around the same time as the rollout of the Space Force? Are we being manipulated at mass scale about aliens and UFOs to help grease the wheels for the movement of war machinery into space?"

pblakeney

More to the point, do Star Trek not have a case for plagiarism against Space Force?

Pross

I’ve noticed even the latest RAF recruitment adverts go on about defending space. I assume they are just jumping on the back of all this stuff and maybe playing on those with a liking for gaming or sci-fi

First.Aspect

Pross said:

I’ve noticed even the latest RAF recruitment adverts go on about defending space. I assume they are just jumping on the back of all this stuff and maybe playing on those with a liking for gaming or sci-fi

Or trying to protect things like GPS and the internet?

focuszing723

Can I mention about Elon Musk in this?

orraloon

Just how batshit crazy Neil Oliver has become. Back in the day I enjoyed his Coast programmes on t'telly. Later on with his racist soshul meejah inclinations as 'President' of the National Trust for Scotland I let my membership lapse. I'd been a member since age 20... (now a volunteer so giving them hours rather than £). Thank F he left/got exited.

The numptie is now going on about how reported temperatures in Europe (see Greece / Rhodes / et al) are all false news, no doubt promoted by Gates / 5G / covid vaccines / Jewish Space Lasers et al.

Dementia?

briantrumpet

orraloon said:

Just how batshit crazy Neil Oliver has become. Back in the day I enjoyed his Coast programmes on t'telly. Later on with his racist soshul meejah inclinations as 'President' of the National Trust for Scotland I let my membership lapse. I'd been a member since age 20... (now a volunteer so giving them hours rather than £). Thank F he left/got exited.

The numptie is now going on about how reported temperatures in Europe (see Greece / Rhodes / et al) are all false news, no doubt promoted by Gates / 5G / covid vaccines / Jewish Space Lasers et al.

Dementia?

Unfortunately it's like those mental illnesses that are self-denying, and the mental faculty, instead of seeing the problems with the conspiracy theories they take up, creates more and more batshit theories to stop the whole batshit edifice from collapsing.

I was talking to a mental health professional one time about this nature of paranoid schizophrenia, and he was saying that even with his knowledge and understanding of the condition, he'd had to break off all ties with a friend of his who was suffering from it, as it was impossible for him to support him, as any help he tried to suggest was taken as an attack on him, *and he wasn't at all ill!!!!*.

In other words, it's really hard to turn it around once a delusion has gone that far, whether it's PS or CS. I think CS should be treated in as a mental health problem. It's troublesome that it's become so widespread now.

secretsqirrel

There is loads of his GB News stuff on Youtube. I tried watching out of curiosity, but his delivery is monotonous and repetitive so I can’t stick more than 90 secs. Then there’s the comments section which he probably reads which reinforces the delusion as everybody lauds him for telling the truth.

pblakeney

"The number of people heading out to the shops fell for the first July in 14 years as the UK grappled with one of the wettest months on record."

Weren't we in lockdown during July 2020. Seems spurious.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66384409