Freeman Medical Practitioner Tribunal .Manchester
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So you prefer the opinion of the person with a similar view to you over the view of a person who has a different perspective. Standard internet debate then!
eerrr what?
That is sufficient evidence for those keen to find wrongdoing but obviously not for the various official bodies who have investigated and understand the processes better than us.[/quote]
what? read below0 -
just for those who have gone off like a deflating balloon maybe its worth reading the original post (below) (standard internet practice . The allegations by the GMC are set out and Dr Freeman must address them and provide satisfactory answers otherwise he will more thanlikely lose his licence to practice ? All the other embellishments you are making about journalists and fire and smoke god knows what else is pointless
The tribunal will inquire into the allegation that, on 16 May 2011, Dr Richard Freeman ordered for delivery from Fit4Sport Limited to the Manchester Velodrome 30 sachets of Testogel. It is further alleged that, at the time of the order, Testogel was (and remains) prohibited on the World Anti-Doping Agency List of Prohibited Substances and Methods. It is further alleged that on 18 May 2011, Dr Freeman made untrue statements, in that he denied making the order and advised that it had been made in error.
The tribunal will further inquire into the allegation that, on a date in October 2011, Dr Freeman contacted an individual at Fit4Sport Limited requesting written confirmation that the order had been sent in error, returned and would be destroyed by Fit4Sport Limited, knowing that this had not taken place. It is further alleged that, on a date in October 2011, Dr Freeman showed the email to others knowing that its content was untrue.
The tribunal will further inquire into the allegation that during an interview with UK Anti-Doping on 17 February 2017, Dr Freeman made untrue statements in that he stated that Testogel had been ordered for a non-athlete member of staff and had been returned to Fit4Sport Limited.
It is alleged that Dr Freeman’s conduct as set out above was dishonest. It is further alleged that his motive for placing the Order was to obtain Testogel to administer to an athlete to improve their athletic performance. It is further alleged Dr Freeman’s motive for his actions, in respect of the untrue statements and communications with Fit4Sport Limited, were to conceal his motive for placing the order.
The tribunal will further inquire into the allegation that, when Team Doctor for athletes at British Cycling Federation and Tour Racing / Team Sky, Dr Freeman inappropriately provided medical treatment that did not constitute first aid to non –athlete members of staff. It is further alleged that Dr Freeman failed to inform three patients’ GPs of medication prescribed and reasons for prescribing.
The tribunal will further inquire into the allegation that, in his role as Team Doctor for athletes at British Cycling Federation and Tour Racing / Team Sky, Dr Freeman failed to maintain an adequate record management system. It is further alleged that his management of prescription-only medication (‘POM’) was inappropriate.
The tribunal will further inquire into the allegation that Dr Freeman failed to ensure that the records on a laptop, which was stolen from him on the evening of 27 / 28 August 2014, could be retrieved.0 -
You're presenting allegations, themselves presented by journalists.
The allegations are all from a very short window of time - May/June 2011 - not 2012 when Wiggins actually won. Why is that?
Now here's a different story. I have no evidence for this bar piecing it together from things that are in the public domain.
2011 and Freeman is a doctor for both BC and Sky, but he has a spare day when he runs a private clinic. This involves sports people from different sports and Sky/BC staff.
One of those staff is a man in his 50s who is divorced and living in a crap flat. He wants to get back in the dating game but he has 50 year old men's problems and asks the doc for help. Doc gets in the testogel - standard treatment for such things.
Then Steve Peters finds out and asks whats going on. The doc, who fears said staff member, lies about it. Peters doesn't believe him and after investigation, cuts off communication between staff member and doc - hence no stories after 2011. Freeman covers his own arse by eventually getting an e-mail from the supplier.
Fast forward five years and the staff member is involved in a scandal of his own. Wanting revenge against those that didn't back him (or give him a Range Rover), and even opposed him - he puts around a story about a package. There are no takers. The Fancy Bear leak comes along and the Mail see an opportunity. Link that package to the Fancy Bear leak, enough so we can run a story and attack the Sirs, and we will switch the BC scandal focus away from you onto a 'culture of fear'.
Meanwhile, the staff member marries his much younger girlfriend and ironically goes off and has a baby in his late 50s.
Freeman seems fairly disorganised, that I won't dispute. And if the GMC sees that as cause for censure, fair enough.
Of course, it's quite possible that a cycling team would order illegal drugs to their home address - but barely enough to make any difference.
It's all about which story you prefer.Twitter: @RichN950 -
It's a process. We can't really say much about it until its finished I reckon. Everything else is speculation and probably not worth much.0
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Ha yes maybe. Time will tell. It's fallen on him heavy and it won't go away. Let's come back to it
Meanwhile back to the racing
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Many people on social media like citing Occam's Razor - oversimplified as the explanation which needs the least speculation is most likely the correct one.SpecialGuestStar wrote:Ha yes maybe. Time will tell. It's fallen on him heavy and it won't go away. Let's come back to it
Meanwhile back to the racing
I present Rich's Razor - the least interesting/salacious explanation is the most likely.
But as you say - on to the racing. Opposing each other again, your focus will be in France, mine in Colombia.Twitter: @RichN950 -
SpecialGuestStar wrote:The tribunal will further inquire into the allegation that, when Team Doctor for athletes at British Cycling Federation and Tour Racing / Team Sky, Dr Freeman inappropriately provided medical treatment that did not constitute first aid to non –athlete members of staff. It is further alleged that Dr Freeman failed to inform three patients’ GPs of medication prescribed and reasons for prescribing.
Take a look at that again beyond the bit you highlighted in huge bold text. The allegation relates to inappropriate treatment of non-athlete staff. That's hardly a huge smoking gun that he may have been doping athletes is it? This is about a Doctor allegedly behaving inappropriately, the fact he was employed in cycling was incidental. OK you can argue if he was dodgy in his day to day work who knows what he was prepared to do with the cyclists in his charge but nothing in the stuff you posted suggests doping.0 -
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sk ... qus_thread
Stinks to high heaven.
I do hope ‘Big Dave’ fails in his quest to find a new bunch of sponsors. Sky has run its course. Some of the riders will be welcomed into other teams....some still have a cloud of suspicion over them.0 -
"Sky remain silent" the headline says. Maybe that's because they are not actually involved in the tribunal.Shipley wrote:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-remain-silent-on-freeman-tribunal-adjournment/#disqus_thread
Stinks to high heaven.
I do hope ‘Big Dave’ fails in his quest to find a new bunch of sponsors. Sky has run its course. Some of the riders will be welcomed into other teams....some still have a cloud of suspicion over them.Twitter: @RichN950 -
And when in a hole it’s bst to stop digging.RichN95 wrote:
"Sky remain silent" the headline says. Maybe that's because they are not actually involved in the tribunal.Shipley wrote:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-remain-silent-on-freeman-tribunal-adjournment/#disqus_thread
Stinks to high heaven.
I do hope ‘Big Dave’ fails in his quest to find a new bunch of sponsors. Sky has run its course. Some of the riders will be welcomed into other teams....some still have a cloud of suspicion over them.0 -
Shipley wrote:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-remain-silent-on-freeman-tribunal-adjournment/#disqus_thread
Stinks to high heaven.
I do hope ‘Big Dave’ fails in his quest to find a new bunch of sponsors. Sky has run its course. Some of the riders will be welcomed into other teams....some still have a cloud of suspicion over them.
And a number of folks will lost their jobs, regardless of whether their termination gives you a warm glow or not.
If 'Big Dave' finds a new sponsor, Sky will have also run it's course.
The adjournment is nowt to do with Sky. Blame the General Medical Tribunal process and the lawyers who have a far greater understanding of it, than you or I.Alejandrosdog wrote:And when in a hole it’s bst to stop digging.
Are Sky involved in the GMT, then?
If not, please explain who is digging in said hole?"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:Shipley wrote:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-remain-silent-on-freeman-tribunal-adjournment/#disqus_thread
Stinks to high heaven.
I do hope ‘Big Dave’ fails in his quest to find a new bunch of sponsors. Sky has run its course. Some of the riders will be welcomed into other teams....some still have a cloud of suspicion over them.
And a number of folks will lost their jobs, regardless of whether their termination gives you a warm glow or not.
If 'Big Dave' finds a new sponsor, Sky will have also run it's course.
The adjournment is nowt to do with Sky. Blame the General Medical Tribunal process and the lawyers who have a far greater understanding of it, than you or I.Alejandrosdog wrote:And when in a hole it’s bst to stop digging.
Are Sky involved in the GMT, then?
If not, please explain who is digging in said hole?
Yes theyre involved wether you want it to or not. I will explain but before I do I will make a comment for the soft of brain to consider before bowling in. (that wasnt aimed at you)
1. I hope Brailsford gets a new headline sponsor. My personal views about wiggins, jiffy bags and doping aside I believe all the teams in the WT add to cycling and Sky as a "British" squad has provided a pathway for talented young people that might otherwise have not exisited. I believe Skys exploits on the road have motivated some people to get up and go, this is a good thing and it would be a shame if that stopped.
2, whilst i might wish a slow and painful death on terrorists that bomb little girls on a night out, i certainley dont wish unemployment on anyone in sky.
And now are sky involved in this BMC hearing?
Absoloutley yes since the allegations concern their Dr (or if you want to be weasley a doctor working with them) and his alleged dishonesty around the purchase, disposal and supply of PED. they concern allegations that around his subsequent attempts to coerce a pharmaceutical supplier into falsifying records inorder for the Dr to hide what he has done.
Of course all this could just be coincidence and bad record keeping and nothing to do with sky. I could believe that is possible, except this is the same Dr who had his laptop "stolen" that contained the only record of medical treatments given to athletes, might just be coincidence, except this is the same Dr who was too poorly to testify about the contents of Wiggins jiffy bag so no more could be done there either. It could just be coincidence and nothing to do with sky.
Of course even if you have closed your mind to all of this, Sky are still implicated as the alledged offences took place in and around their organisation and concern their employees and riders.
Sky are well advised not to comment and mire the water.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:Alejandrosdog wrote:And when in a hole it’s bst to stop digging.
Are Sky involved in the GMT, then?
If not, please explain who is digging in said hole?Alejandrosdog wrote:Yes theyre involved wether you want it to or not. I will explain but before I do I will make a comment for the soft of brain to consider before bowling in. (that wasnt aimed at you)
And now are sky involved in this BMC hearing?
Absoloutley yes since the allegations concern their Dr (or if you want to be weasley a doctor working with them) and his alleged dishonesty around the purchase, disposal and supply of PED. they concern allegations that around his subsequent attempts to coerce a pharmaceutical supplier into falsifying records inorder for the Dr to hide what he has done.
Of course all this could just be coincidence and bad record keeping and nothing to do with sky. I could believe that is possible, except this is the same Dr who had his laptop "stolen" that contained the only record of medical treatments given to athletes, might just be coincidence, except this is the same Dr who was too poorly to testify about the contents of Wiggins jiffy bag so no more could be done there either. It could just be coincidence and nothing to do with sky.
Of course even if you have closed your mind to all of this, Sky are still implicated as the alledged offences took place in and around their organisation and concern their employees and riders.
Sky are well advised not to comment and mire the water.
Yes, sorry, perhaps I wasn't being clear.
I was referring to Sky being somehow physically involved in steering the GMT panel towards this adjournment, rather than in terms of being involved, evidence wise, since this was where I took Rich's response to the article title to be aimed.
It would be very easy for Sky to make all the right noises about the delay, but really, why bother when there is no need, since it's third parties causing the ajournment?
Especially as anything they do say is bound to be re-spun and used to generate another negative piece of click bait?"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Or, in this case, anything they don't say...Blazing Saddles wrote:Especially as anything they do say is bound to be re-spun and used to generate another negative piece of click bait?
Not really sure that headline "Team Sky remain silent on Freeman tribunal adjournment" is anything other than negative click bait. The article contains no new information.0 -
Bob and blazing yes and yes
I’ve started to view pro cycling as a soap opera surrounding some great sport.0 -
What’s interesting is that those who would say it’s not about sky or cycling have posted this here when perhaps it should be in cake stop.
A little tell there in the denial moooo ha ha ha0 -
Is that just a personal gripe though? I doubt Sky we’re directly implicated in anything you think is dirty, and whoever was will just move on. As an aside I’ve said all along I expect Dave B to be back with a bigger sponsor than Sky.Shipley wrote:I do hope ‘Big Dave’ fails in his quest to find a new bunch of sponsors. Sky has run its course. Some of the riders will be welcomed into other teams....some still have a cloud of suspicion over them.0 -
inseine wrote:
Is that just a personal gripe though? I doubt Sky we’re directly implicated in anything you think is dirty, and whoever was will just move on. As an aside I’ve said all along I expect Dave B to be back with a bigger sponsor than Sky.Shipley wrote:I do hope ‘Big Dave’ fails in his quest to find a new bunch of sponsors. Sky has run its course. Some of the riders will be welcomed into other teams....some still have a cloud of suspicion over them.
Sky the tv company or sky the cycling team?0 -
If you doubt, that's hardly a ringing endorsement of Skys innocence therefore it would be unfair to be too critical of others who may hold a slightly stronger view.inseine wrote:
Is that just a personal gripe though? I doubt Sky we’re directly implicated in anything you think is dirty, and whoever was will just move on. As an aside I’ve said all along I expect Dave B to be back with a bigger sponsor than Sky.Shipley wrote:I do hope ‘Big Dave’ fails in his quest to find a new bunch of sponsors. Sky has run its course. Some of the riders will be welcomed into other teams....some still have a cloud of suspicion over them.
For the record, Sky have been directly implicated in stuff that would be considered 'dirty'. However, either through reasons of maladministration, misfortune or skill, call it whatever you like, the evidence was insufficient to say with any certainty. Consequently, due to their own ineptitude/good tactics, it will be a difficult reputation to shake off.0 -
When I mentioned Sky I was talking about the company bit the team.
As far as the team go, whatever they’re called in the future, I think it’s generally a good thing. Got people cycling and watching the sport, probably lead to the boom in cycle sport in Yorkshire in particular ( and associated boost to the economy).
If you want to find dirt you can do that with any team, it’s the nature of the sport.0 -
TV companyAlejandrosdog wrote:inseine wrote:
Is that just a personal gripe though? I doubt Sky we’re directly implicated in anything you think is dirty, and whoever was will just move on. As an aside I’ve said all along I expect Dave B to be back with a bigger sponsor than Sky.Shipley wrote:I do hope ‘Big Dave’ fails in his quest to find a new bunch of sponsors. Sky has run its course. Some of the riders will be welcomed into other teams....some still have a cloud of suspicion over them.
Sky the tv company or sky the cycling team?0 -
How long is the long grass?0
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Is Dr Freeman still ill and unable to submit evidence to the tribunal?0
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jimmythecuckoo wrote:Is Dr Freeman still ill and unable to submit evidence to the tribunal?
Has Dr Freeman ever been ill, other than by his own diagnosis?0 -
Franco di Banco wrote:jimmythecuckoo wrote:Is Dr Freeman still ill and unable to submit evidence to the tribunal?
Has Dr Freeman ever been ill, other than by his own diagnosis?
I bet he's suffering from stress though.....0 -
Worse than that. He reminded somebody. It's been scheduled for 28th October.Alejandrosdog wrote:0 -
DeadCalm wrote:
Worse than that. He reminded somebody. It's been scheduled for 28th October.Alejandrosdog wrote:
Excellent. 0
