Freeman Medical Practitioner Tribunal .Manchester

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Comments

  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    I know. Lot of sensitive people being outraged about this one ??
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    Slowbike wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    However, here folks haven't even bothered to surmise as to possibilities why Freeman didn't turn up, or why there was an adjournment. They chose to go straight to rather tasteless health comments and assumed the worst.
    Or rather - we didn't jump to baseless assumptions or make any sweeping statements regarding the Doctors guilt or innocence - we just wrote a couple of jokes very loosely based around the publicly known points in the case - whether that's tasteless or just a cr4p joke depends on the recipient - personally I just put it in the cr4p joke pile.

    Yep, this.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    FocusZing wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    personally I just put it in the cr4p joke pile.

    Yep, this.
    Are you saying I make cr4p jokes?




    it's true ;)
  • Beatmaker
    Beatmaker Posts: 1,092
    Slowbike wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    However, here folks haven't even bothered to surmise as to possibilities why Freeman didn't turn up, or why there was an adjournment. They chose to go straight to rather tasteless health comments and assumed the worst.
    Or rather - we didn't jump to baseless assumptions or make any sweeping statements regarding the Doctors guilt or innocence - we just wrote a couple of jokes very loosely based around the publicly known points in the case - whether that's tasteless or just a cr4p joke depends on the recipient - personally I just put it in the cr4p joke pile.

    I actually mildy smirked at your jokes.

    I don't see anything remotely tasteless or offensive on the previous page.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    Minus points for the cryptic thread title.

    Spent weeks thinking this was a spam thread. Might as well have been tbh.
    _
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Minus points for the cryptic thread title.

    Spent weeks thinking this was a spam thread. Might as well have been tbh.

    It's Dr Freeman. It's his medical practitioner tribunal. It's in Manchester (eventually) :D
    Not exactly a riddle wrapped in a mystery
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,589
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    Same old same old. Reminds me of the Lance believer's

    And as with Lance even if it eventually leads to evidence of cheating there still won't be a French Tour winner in the foreseeable future. It probably needs them to get beyond the stage of trying to make out that their lack of success in the last 30 odd years is down to cheating foreigners and sort out the structure and attitude that is the real reason
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Minus points for the cryptic thread title.

    Spent weeks thinking this was a spam thread. Might as well have been tbh.

    It's Dr Freeman. It's his medical practitioner tribunal. It's in Manchester (eventually) :D
    Not exactly a riddle wrapped in a mystery

    Rick's not very good at comprehension - it needed "Brexit" in front for him to pay attention to what it was about ... ;)
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Minus points for the cryptic thread title.

    Spent weeks thinking this was a spam thread. Might as well have been tbh.

    It's Dr Freeman. It's his medical practitioner tribunal. It's in Manchester (eventually) :D
    Not exactly a riddle wrapped in a mystery

    The link to cycling is the riddle.

    Didn’t realise knowing who the Drs on teams are was received knowledge.
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,589
    edited February 2019
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Minus points for the cryptic thread title.

    Spent weeks thinking this was a spam thread. Might as well have been tbh.

    It's Dr Freeman. It's his medical practitioner tribunal. It's in Manchester (eventually) :D
    Not exactly a riddle wrapped in a mystery

    The link to cycling is the riddle.

    Didn’t realise knowing who the Drs on teams are was received knowledge.

    It was a big story in cycling last year (mainly due to the usual suspects of Dan Road and Matt Lawton) to be fair so I'm surprised you missed it.
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Minus points for the cryptic thread title.

    Spent weeks thinking this was a spam thread. Might as well have been tbh.

    It's Dr Freeman. It's his medical practitioner tribunal. It's in Manchester (eventually) :D
    Not exactly a riddle wrapped in a mystery

    The link to cycling is the riddle.

    Didn’t realise knowing who the Drs on teams are was received knowledge.


    awww c'mon (nudge)

    The former Team Sky doctor at the centre of the Jiffy bag affair said he had a “major depressive illness” before withdrawing from giving evidence to MPs investigating doping in sport.

    Dr Richard Freeman did not appear at the digital, culture, media and sport (DCMS) committee last year, citing ill health, after being summoned over his involvement in a package given to Sir Bradley Wiggins after the Critérium du Dauphiné in 2011. He replied in writing but did not appear in person before the parliamentary inquiry.

    Former Team Sky doctor Richard Freeman to face charge of ordering testosterone for a rider
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    Pross wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Minus points for the cryptic thread title.

    Spent weeks thinking this was a spam thread. Might as well have been tbh.

    It's Dr Freeman. It's his medical practitioner tribunal. It's in Manchester (eventually) :D
    Not exactly a riddle wrapped in a mystery

    The link to cycling is the riddle.

    Didn’t realise knowing who the Drs on teams are was received knowledge.

    It was a big story in cycling last year (mainly due to the usual suspects of Dan Road and Matt Lawton) to be fair so I'm surprised you missed it.

    I don’t know who those people are without googling them.

    Anyway, I’ll stop derailing the thread. Soz.
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,589
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Minus points for the cryptic thread title.

    Spent weeks thinking this was a spam thread. Might as well have been tbh.

    It's Dr Freeman. It's his medical practitioner tribunal. It's in Manchester (eventually) :D
    Not exactly a riddle wrapped in a mystery

    The link to cycling is the riddle.

    Didn’t realise knowing who the Drs on teams are was received knowledge.

    It was a big story in cycling last year (mainly due to the usual suspects of Dan Road and Matt Lawton) to be fair so I'm surprised you missed it.

    I don’t know who those people are without googling them.

    Anyway, I’ll stop derailing the thread. Soz.

    Basically two football journalists (BBC and Mail respectively) who like to try to dig dirt in sports they know nothing about in the hope of making a name for themselves and attempt to build molehills into mountains presumably as they missed out on the Lance scandal.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,816
    Pross wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Minus points for the cryptic thread title.

    Spent weeks thinking this was a spam thread. Might as well have been tbh.

    It's Dr Freeman. It's his medical practitioner tribunal. It's in Manchester (eventually) :D
    Not exactly a riddle wrapped in a mystery

    The link to cycling is the riddle.

    Didn’t realise knowing who the Drs on teams are was received knowledge.

    It was a big story in cycling last year (mainly due to the usual suspects of Dan Road and Matt Lawton) to be fair so I'm surprised you missed it.

    I don’t know who those people are without googling them.

    Anyway, I’ll stop derailing the thread. Soz.

    Basically two football journalists (BBC and Mail respectively) who like to try to dig dirt in sports they know nothing about in the hope of making a name for themselves and attempt to build molehills into mountains presumably as they missed out on the Lance scandal.

    Too right.
    In the absence of any tribunal to misrepresent, the dynamic duo have decided to skip waiting, assumed the (desired) outcome and are now whining about UKAD missing the statute of limitations.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • top_bhoy
    top_bhoy Posts: 1,424
    The primary culprits for this continued episode are Team Sky, BC and the good doctor. Freeman. This has been a catalogue of incompetence, subterfuge and misdemeanour over a number of issues and considerable time period...which part does the journalist play? To keep blaming Dan Roar or any other journalist is missing the point and an attempt to deflect the failures of those cycling entities. Some people and cycling organisations will have their own agenda to want to continue this deflection.

    This may not be a criminal trial but it is a question of the doctors honesty, integrity and suitability to practice medicine. If he wants to 'play' the system, I hope he is at least he is suspended from practice pending the outcome.
    Click here to view Top_Bhoys Pedal Force:
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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,158
    Top_Bhoy wrote:
    The primary culprits for this continued episode are Team Sky, BC and the good doctor. Freeman. This has been a catalogue of incompetence, subterfuge and misdemeanour over a number of issues and considerable time period...which part does the journalist play? To keep blaming Dan Roar or any other journalist is missing the point and an attempt to deflect the failures of those cycling entities. Some people and cycling organisations will have their own agenda to want to continue this deflection.
    The part journalists have had to play in it is making out fairly mudane events to be suspicious. Going right back to the jiffy bag. The language used - 'a mystery package' - invites the reader to fill the package with their own prejudices. Teams have lots of packages couriered to them - they're all mystery packages. It is up to the journalist and his source to make a proper allegation.

    Then that is followed by the questioning of key figures and when they don't have total recall of six year old events describe it as evasive or lying.

    (The jiffy bag story itself was sent to journalists months before Lawton wrote about it, but no-one bothered because the source didn't know what was in the bag. But once the Fancy Bear leak came out it was dug up, dusted off and sent out to bat, with a substance for the reader to put in the bag themselves).

    Then there was the Froome affair, where every delay was put firmly at the door of Froome, without anything to support it. In reality the case should have been closed as soon as the inventor of the test said it was flawed, anonymously before the season started.



    And then Freeman - an adjournment (fairly standard) is presented as delaying tactics, a no-show as suspicious (he's not obliged to attend - and definitely wouldn't for an adjournment request), not giving comment on advice of his lawyers as evasion). Cod theories about statute of limitations are introduced by people who have never read the WADA code. Freeman has given his side of the story in quite a lot of detail for those bother to actually read it, rather than rely on their own opinions.

    The 'incompetence, subterfuge and misdemeanor' is an impression created by journalists, not fact. The early days of Sky were a bit disorganised and some mistakes were made. But since 2016 this story has been lead by a handful of football journalists who are used to getting someone sacked if they create enough scandal. And they're furious that cycling is different, which takes the shine of those awards they gave each other.

    All of this is just standard in modern journalism across the board.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,694
    Well said Rich.
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    orraloon wrote:
    Well said Rich.

    More hot air than in the Tour of Oman

    This much better
    Top_Bhoy wrote:
    The primary culprits for this continued episode are Team Sky, BC and the good doctor. Freeman. This has been a catalogue of incompetence, subterfuge and misdemeanour over a number of issues and considerable time period...which part does the journalist play? To keep blaming Dan Roar or any other journalist is missing the point and an attempt to deflect the failures of those cycling entities. Some people and cycling organisations will have their own agenda to want to continue this deflection.

    This may not be a criminal trial but it is a question of the doctors honesty, integrity and suitability to practice medicine. If he wants to 'play' the system, I hope he is at least he is suspended from practice pending the outcome.
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    I suppose it depends on which side your prejudice falls down on; most people have already made their own mind up depending on that prejudice.

    - If you believe and/or want them to be guilty of shenanigans, their behaviour is proof of shenanigans.
    - If you believe and/or want them to be innocent of shenanigans, their behaviour is proof of being a bit sloppy but not of shenanigans.

    To my mind there's not enough proof for either at the moment. We'll have to wait for Dr Freeman's appearance at the hearing, if it happens.

    One thing I do know, and agree with Rich on, the fourth estate cannot be trusted to be objective. Roan goes round like some sort of crusader, when in reality he's just a shit-raking hack.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,158
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    orraloon wrote:
    Well said Rich.

    More hot air than in the Tour of Oman

    This much better
    Top_Bhoy wrote:
    Snip.
    The question was what part do the media play.

    And the answer is adding conjecture, speculation, sensationalism, opinion, misinformation and very little fact. Read any report. Eliminate anything that is not verifiably true and you will be left with very little. And look at the language used 'turmoil', 'crisis', 'untenable', 'mired in scandal' - tabloid cliches. (Also look at how little attention the overseas media have paid to it - Froome case aside)

    The actual facts add up to little.

    A know allergies sufferer got TUEs for allergy medication
    A package was couriered to a team at a race
    A known asthmatic took asthma drugs
    A doctor ordered drugs

    In themselves, these are normal things. It is the subjective layers put on them by others that make them suspicious.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    RichN95 wrote:
    The question was what part do the media play.

    And the answer is adding conjecture, speculation, sensationalism, opinion, misinformation and very little fact.

    The actual facts add up to little.

    A know allergies sufferer got TUEs for allergy medication
    A package was couriered to a team at a race
    A known asthmatic took asthma drugs
    A doctor ordered drugs

    In themselves, these are normal things. It is the subjective layers put on them by others that make them suspicious.

    Agree 100%
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    RichN95 wrote:
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    orraloon wrote:
    Well said Rich.

    More hot air than in the Tour of Oman

    This much better
    Top_Bhoy wrote:
    Snip.
    The question was what part do the media play.

    And the answer is adding conjecture, speculation, sensationalism, opinion, misinformation and very little fact. Read any report. Eliminate anything that is not verifiably true and you will be left with very little. .

    Has Trump got to you ?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,158
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    Has Trump got to you ?
    No, the opposite. I can recognise the techniques the media use to construct a story out of little.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    RichN95 wrote:
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    Has Trump got to you ?
    No, the opposite. I can recognise the techniques the media use to construct a story out of little.

    Mmm ok . So more anti -Murdoch
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    Salsiccia1 wrote:
    I suppose it depends on which side your prejudice falls down on; most people have already made their own mind up depending on that prejudice.

    - If you believe and/or want them to be guilty of shenanigans, their behaviour is proof of shenanigans.
    - If you believe and/or want them to be innocent of shenanigans, their behaviour is proof of being a bit sloppy but not of shenanigans.

    To my mind there's not enough proof for either at the moment. We'll have to wait for Dr Freeman's appearance at the hearing, if it happens.

    One thing I do know, and agree with Rich on, the fourth estate cannot be trusted to be objective. Roan goes round like some sort of crusader, when in reality he's just a shit-raking hack.
    Mainly agree with this, but have been avoiding this debate because there seems to be two polarised camps on it.

    The other thing I would add to this is that I do not know nearly enough about how GMC hearings work to say anything one way or the other about this (and I suspect most of the people commenting don't either...). If you believe one side it's all normal process, nothing to see here, and if you believe the other side it's proof positive that Freeman is guilty of helping Sky dope.
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    The GMC hearing is to establish if he is fit for professional practice. Nothing to do with cycling in that respect
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    The GMC hearing is to establish if he is fit for professional practice. Nothing to do with cycling in that respect
    Yeah, I understand the purpose of it, but I don't know enough to comment on whether the process (adjournment etc.) is normal and I doubt most of the people commenting do either.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,158
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    Has Trump got to you ?
    No, the opposite. I can recognise the techniques the media use to construct a story out of little.

    Mmm ok . So more anti -Murdoch
    You might want to go all the way back to William Randolph Hearst
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    RichN95 wrote:
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    Has Trump got to you ?
    No, the opposite. I can recognise the techniques the media use to construct a story out of little.

    Mmm ok . So more anti -Murdoch
    You might want to go all the way back to William Randolph Hearst
    Yeah maybe but I was just savouring the irony. SKY getting caught out by Murdoch tactics
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,589
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    orraloon wrote:
    Well said Rich.

    More hot air than in the Tour of Oman

    This much better
    Top_Bhoy wrote:
    The primary culprits for this continued episode are Team Sky, BC and the good doctor. Freeman. This has been a catalogue of incompetence, subterfuge and misdemeanour over a number of issues and considerable time period...which part does the journalist play? To keep blaming Dan Roar or any other journalist is missing the point and an attempt to deflect the failures of those cycling entities. Some people and cycling organisations will have their own agenda to want to continue this deflection.

    This may not be a criminal trial but it is a question of the doctors honesty, integrity and suitability to practice medicine. If he wants to 'play' the system, I hope he is at least he is suspended from practice pending the outcome.

    So you prefer the opinion of the person with a similar view to you over the view of a person who has a different perspective. Standard internet debate then!

    For what it's worth, I believe BC and Sky made errors some of which were negligent at best and helped create smoke. However, despite the best efforts of the likes of Roan, Lawton and Fancy Bears to find fire the established facts remain as Rich has stated. That is sufficient evidence for those keen to find wrongdoing but obviously not for the various official bodies who have investigated and understand the processes better than us.

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