LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

Dorset_Boy

Rick Chasey twists cabinet minister's response to question to continue to bash the Government, SHOCKER!

Though incredibly tedious, but hey, we should all relax, coz it's just a forum.

elbowloh

When all is said and done, and not even taking this issue into account, Grant Shapps is just a bit of a dick.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grant-shapps-who-he-theresa-may-pm-plot-overthrow-two-names-jobs-a7986761.html

https://www.ft.com/content/cd8f78f8-2850-3109-b577-269eedb1e5c2

focuszing723

elbowloh said:

When all is said and done, and not even taking this issue into account, Grant Shapps is just a bit of a censored .

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grant-shapps-who-he-theresa-may-pm-plot-overthrow-two-names-jobs-a7986761.html

https://www.ft.com/content/cd8f78f8-2850-3109-b577-269eedb1e5c2

Yep, after reading that Rick is quite correct in his observations.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

focuszing723 said:

rick_chasey said:

Honestly, if you live in Welwyn Hatfield and voted tory you should be embarrassed for endorsing such a moron.

If you feel so strongly about these things you should be using your energy to contact your local MP, if you get no joy start making plans to get elected yourself and make a better future.

Calling anybody a moron won't change a thing.

Oh it's a forum, relax.

I've put my money where my mouth is more than most people on here.

So you've called them a moron and sent them some money?

That's your gig isn't it?

rjsterry

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

focuszing723 said:

rick_chasey said:

Honestly, if you live in Welwyn Hatfield and voted tory you should be embarrassed for endorsing such a moron.

If you feel so strongly about these things you should be using your energy to contact your local MP, if you get no joy start making plans to get elected yourself and make a better future.

Calling anybody a moron won't change a thing.

Oh it's a forum, relax.

I've put my money where my mouth is more than most people on here.

So you've called them a moron and sent them some money?

That's your gig isn't it?

Difficult to argue with that one. 😏

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

focuszing723 said:

rick_chasey said:

Honestly, if you live in Welwyn Hatfield and voted tory you should be embarrassed for endorsing such a moron.

If you feel so strongly about these things you should be using your energy to contact your local MP, if you get no joy start making plans to get elected yourself and make a better future.

Calling anybody a moron won't change a thing.

Oh it's a forum, relax.

I've put my money where my mouth is more than most people on here.

So you've called them a moron and sent them some money?

That's your gig isn't it?

Nope

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

focuszing723 said:

rick_chasey said:

Honestly, if you live in Welwyn Hatfield and voted tory you should be embarrassed for endorsing such a moron.

If you feel so strongly about these things you should be using your energy to contact your local MP, if you get no joy start making plans to get elected yourself and make a better future.

Calling anybody a moron won't change a thing.

Oh it's a forum, relax.

I've put my money where my mouth is more than most people on here.

So you've called them a moron and sent them some money?

That's your gig isn't it?

Nope

After all this are you now saying you didn't pay your £3?

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

focuszing723 said:

rick_chasey said:

Honestly, if you live in Welwyn Hatfield and voted tory you should be embarrassed for endorsing such a moron.

If you feel so strongly about these things you should be using your energy to contact your local MP, if you get no joy start making plans to get elected yourself and make a better future.

Calling anybody a moron won't change a thing.

Oh it's a forum, relax.

I've put my money where my mouth is more than most people on here.

So you've called them a moron and sent them some money?

That's your gig isn't it?

Nope

After all this are you now saying you didn't pay your £3?

KG said I did both. I don't recall calling them morons

There is also no doubt it was 3 quid well spent.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

focuszing723 said:

rick_chasey said:

Honestly, if you live in Welwyn Hatfield and voted tory you should be embarrassed for endorsing such a moron.

If you feel so strongly about these things you should be using your energy to contact your local MP, if you get no joy start making plans to get elected yourself and make a better future.

Calling anybody a moron won't change a thing.

Oh it's a forum, relax.

I've put my money where my mouth is more than most people on here.

So you've called them a moron and sent them some money?

That's your gig isn't it?

Nope

After all this are you now saying you didn't pay your £3?

KG said I did both. I don't recall calling them morons

There is also no doubt it was 3 quid well spent.

If you never have ever in your life, I think you'd be in the minority.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

focuszing723 said:

rick_chasey said:

Honestly, if you live in Welwyn Hatfield and voted tory you should be embarrassed for endorsing such a moron.

If you feel so strongly about these things you should be using your energy to contact your local MP, if you get no joy start making plans to get elected yourself and make a better future.

Calling anybody a moron won't change a thing.

Oh it's a forum, relax.

I've put my money where my mouth is more than most people on here.

So you've called them a moron and sent them some money?

That's your gig isn't it?

Nope

After all this are you now saying you didn't pay your £3?

KG said I did both. I don't recall calling them morons

There is also no doubt it was 3 quid well spent.

If you never have ever in your life, I think you'd be in the minority.

I don't like to state the obvious.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

focuszing723 said:

rick_chasey said:

Honestly, if you live in Welwyn Hatfield and voted tory you should be embarrassed for endorsing such a moron.

If you feel so strongly about these things you should be using your energy to contact your local MP, if you get no joy start making plans to get elected yourself and make a better future.

Calling anybody a moron won't change a thing.

Oh it's a forum, relax.

I've put my money where my mouth is more than most people on here.

So you've called them a moron and sent them some money?

That's your gig isn't it?

Nope

After all this are you now saying you didn't pay your £3?

KG said I did both. I don't recall calling them morons

There is also no doubt it was 3 quid well spent.

If you never have ever in your life, I think you'd be in the minority.

I don't like to state the obvious.

There are subjects about which that is definitely true.

rick_chasey

https://twitter.com/torstenbell/status/1350731973950582784?s=21

Didn’t this very thread declare this unworkable?

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

https://twitter.com/torstenbell/status/1350731973950582784?s=21

Didn’t this very thread declare this unworkable?

Would be interesting to see how they propose to assess property value when it is so easily influenced by demand. Conversely, if values are effectively set by government (a supposedly Conservative government) then that would really distort the market. As an aside, if they are serious about meeting their emissions reduction targets, they should base the property tax on energy consumption.

elbowloh

Same article references the fast that the replacement for council tax was thought about previously, but when they modelled it, it produced no difference in the amount of revenue raised. It did massively change how much people paid on the scales. From memory, those with a house prices at £250k paid about £640 per annum whereas a £1m property owner would pay £400 a month!

morstar

elbowloh said:

Same article references the fast that the replacement for council tax was thought about previously, but when they modelled it, it produced no difference in the amount of revenue raised. It did massively change how much people paid on the scales. From memory, those with a house prices at £250k paid about £640 per annum whereas a £1m property owner would pay £400 a month!

Maybe that’s a hidden agenda. Would force redistribution of high value housing to high earners. A bit of social engineering to remove low earners who happen to own a high value family property from generations of ownership.

Would definitely mobilise the market. Could have many unforeseen consequences though, would potentially devalue the higher end of the ‘normal’ (not luxury) market but subsequently drive up values of lower end properties as that market would heat up.

Stevo_666

Maybe we'll know more once he has actually considered it. If it isn't introduced then maybe the view is that it isn't workable.

At present this is speculation as to what might be introduced.

morstar

Having thought it through, I’m not keen despite likely being a beneficiary.

It penalises living in an expensive area which the property price already does.

I’m all for punitive taxation on empty or second properties but not on owning a home that happens to be valuable.

rick_chasey

morstar said:

Having thought it through, I’m not keen despite likely being a beneficiary.

It penalises living in an expensive area which the property price already does.

I’m all for punitive taxation on empty or second properties but not on owning a home that happens to be valuable.

Helps flush out sticky labour voters in London constituencies which have swing potential.

morstar

rick_chasey said:

morstar said:

Having thought it through, I’m not keen despite likely being a beneficiary.

It penalises living in an expensive area which the property price already does.

I’m all for punitive taxation on empty or second properties but not on owning a home that happens to be valuable.

Helps flush out sticky labour voters in London constituencies which have swing potential.

Yes, I mentioned the social engineering angle in my prior post.

Can definitely see gentrification being possible.

rick_chasey

Was a thing round my way in London.

Used a lot of redevelopments to force poorer residents out.

If anyone’s interested I can share the deets.

morstar

A really cynical government could do it as a temporary measure.

2-3 years would be enough to flush out the lower classes before revising the system that ‘doesn’t work’. Obviously with all their property trading friends forewarned.

bompington

rick_chasey said:

morstar said:

Having thought it through, I’m not keen despite likely being a beneficiary.

It penalises living in an expensive area which the property price already does.

I’m all for punitive taxation on empty or second properties but not on owning a home that happens to be valuable.

Helps flush out sticky labour voters in London constituencies which have swing potential.

Hang on, you're not seriously suggesting that it's the poor people who vote labour in London?

rick_chasey

bompington said:

rick_chasey said:

morstar said:

Having thought it through, I’m not keen despite likely being a beneficiary.

It penalises living in an expensive area which the property price already does.

I’m all for punitive taxation on empty or second properties but not on owning a home that happens to be valuable.

Helps flush out sticky labour voters in London constituencies which have swing potential.

Hang on, you're not seriously suggesting that it's the poor people who vote labour in London?

Ha ha.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

https://twitter.com/torstenbell/status/1350731973950582784?s=21

Didn’t this very thread declare this unworkable?

My suggestion so it hit a knee jerk rejection in some quarters.

It would be less market distorting.

surrey_commuter

elbowloh said:

Same article references the fast that the replacement for council tax was thought about previously, but when they modelled it, it produced no difference in the amount of revenue raised. It did massively change how much people paid on the scales. From memory, those with a house prices at £250k paid about £640 per annum whereas a £1m property owner would pay £400 a month!

Council tax on £1m property is circa £3k

Stamp duty on a £1m property is circa £50k.

If you live there for ten years that is £5k a year.

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

elbowloh said:

Same article references the fast that the replacement for council tax was thought about previously, but when they modelled it, it produced no difference in the amount of revenue raised. It did massively change how much people paid on the scales. From memory, those with a house prices at £250k paid about £640 per annum whereas a £1m property owner would pay £400 a month!

Council tax on £1m property is circa £3k

Stamp duty on a £1m property is circa £50k.

If you live there for ten years that is £5k a year.

The trouble with government policy is it always goes round in circles. The reason for increasing stamp duty on expensive properties was to prevent them being used as a liquid reserve currency.

Stevo_666

Politically it would also alienate large swathes of the country where property prices are generally high and where there are lots of Tory constituencies.

Also if, as elbowloh says above, it doesn't change the overall revenues but changes how the cost is split, not sure what the point is?

pinkbikini

Stevo_666 said:

Politically it would also alienate large swathes of the country where property prices are generally high and where there are lots of Tory constituencies.

Also if, as elbowloh says above, it doesn't change the overall revenues but changes how the cost is split, not sure what the point is?

So as an example, if it happened and alienated you, who would you subsequently vote for?

rick_chasey

Rich Tory voters are inelastic

pblakeney

pinkbikini said:

Stevo_666 said:

Politically it would also alienate large swathes of the country where property prices are generally high and where there are lots of Tory constituencies.

Also if, as elbowloh says above, it doesn't change the overall revenues but changes how the cost is split, not sure what the point is?

So as an example, if it happened and alienated you, who would you subsequently vote for?

You have just highlighted why it won't happen.