LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited July 2023
    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Yes, I am resigned to that.

    I'm not doing the homework, she is. I can help obviously. I like teaching my own kid. I am also not above cheating the homework system if it's objectively ridiculous.

    Absolutely no problem teaching kids to think for themselves and work the system in their favour.

    You're being a bit naïve about how independently she'll be able to do it. Maybe you will be lucky.
    This. You need to play along and if you really want to change stuff join the governors.
    I am self aware enough that my own experience of school is not helpful for decision making in this regard.

    The school work is fine; I was a straight A student so I can help with the content but me and my wife know she will do the heavy lifting with the school itself and I’ll be backup.
    You'll find it's more difficult to help with homework, etc. if you haven't been to the meetings, workshops, and so on. Teaching, unsurprisingly has moved on a great deal since your or my time at school.
    Workshops?

    Lol half the parents can’t speak English, good luck to the teachers if they want to try that.

    Where do you think I’m sending them? To the local private school?!
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    Do you know what a Fronted Adverbial is RC?

    (I don't know if it should have capitals but RC Jr. will need to... ;) )
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    Meanwhile back to ULEZ...



    (Some Italians are about to find out what being a refugee is like too...)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,374
    ddraver said:

    Do you know what a Fronted Adverbial is RC?

    (I don't know if it should have capitals but RC Jr. will need to... ;) )


    Really, don't get me started on 'fronted adverbials' and the madness of the focus on memorising arbitrary labels.
  • monkimark
    monkimark Posts: 1,928
    I have an engineering degree, my wife has 2 first class degrees in English.
    The maths and English for primary school level required us to both brush up on how it is done, what the terminology is etc.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    ddraver said:

    Do you know what a Fronted Adverbial is RC?

    (I don't know if it should have capitals but RC Jr. will need to... ;) )

    Lol yeah that’s English language stuff right? A phrase or a part of a sentence that modifies the main sentence.

    Before breakfast, <(frontal adverbial) Rick tried but failed to take a non-IBS style sh!t.

    Or; begrudgingly, Rick traipsed back to the school his daughter went to.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,919
    edited July 2023

    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Yes, I am resigned to that.

    I'm not doing the homework, she is. I can help obviously. I like teaching my own kid. I am also not above cheating the homework system if it's objectively ridiculous.

    Absolutely no problem teaching kids to think for themselves and work the system in their favour.

    You're being a bit naïve about how independently she'll be able to do it. Maybe you will be lucky.
    This. You need to play along and if you really want to change stuff join the governors.
    I am self aware enough that my own experience of school is not helpful for decision making in this regard.

    The school work is fine; I was a straight A student so I can help with the content but me and my wife know she will do the heavy lifting with the school itself and I’ll be backup.
    You'll find it's more difficult to help with homework, etc. if you haven't been to the meetings, workshops, and so on. Teaching, unsurprisingly has moved on a great deal since your or my time at school.
    Workshops?

    Lol half the parents can’t speak English, good luck to the teachers if they want to try that.

    Where do you think I’m sending them? To the local private school?!
    " I am self aware enough that my own experience of school is not helpful for decision making in this regard."

    You need to apply this not just think it is true. State schools invite parents in periodically to learn stuff. The reason is that most six year olds know what a split diagraph is whereas most adults don't. You can disagree with the teaching methods, but that is the current approach.



  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,919
    Also, I never really have a problem with the actual teaching that goes on. Just everything else.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,424

    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Yes, I am resigned to that.

    I'm not doing the homework, she is. I can help obviously. I like teaching my own kid. I am also not above cheating the homework system if it's objectively ridiculous.

    Absolutely no problem teaching kids to think for themselves and work the system in their favour.

    You're being a bit naïve about how independently she'll be able to do it. Maybe you will be lucky.
    This. You need to play along and if you really want to change stuff join the governors.
    I am self aware enough that my own experience of school is not helpful for decision making in this regard.

    The school work is fine; I was a straight A student so I can help with the content but me and my wife know she will do the heavy lifting with the school itself and I’ll be backup.
    You'll find it's more difficult to help with homework, etc. if you haven't been to the meetings, workshops, and so on. Teaching, unsurprisingly has moved on a great deal since your or my time at school.
    Workshops?

    Lol half the parents can’t speak English, good luck to the teachers if they want to try that.

    Where do you think I’m sending them? To the local private school?!
    Sounds like you might have to at this rate.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698

    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Yes, I am resigned to that.

    I'm not doing the homework, she is. I can help obviously. I like teaching my own kid. I am also not above cheating the homework system if it's objectively ridiculous.

    Absolutely no problem teaching kids to think for themselves and work the system in their favour.

    You're being a bit naïve about how independently she'll be able to do it. Maybe you will be lucky.
    This. You need to play along and if you really want to change stuff join the governors.
    I am self aware enough that my own experience of school is not helpful for decision making in this regard.

    The school work is fine; I was a straight A student so I can help with the content but me and my wife know she will do the heavy lifting with the school itself and I’ll be backup.
    You'll find it's more difficult to help with homework, etc. if you haven't been to the meetings, workshops, and so on. Teaching, unsurprisingly has moved on a great deal since your or my time at school.
    Workshops?

    Lol half the parents can’t speak English, good luck to the teachers if they want to try that.

    Where do you think I’m sending them? To the local private school?!
    " I am self aware enough that my own experience of school is not helpful for decision making in this regard."

    You need to apply this not just think it is true. State schools invite parents in periodically to learn stuff. The reason is that most six year olds know what a split diagraph is whereas most adults don't. You can disagree with the teaching methods, but that is the current approach.


    I visited my BFFs recently and there was a word to do with learning reading (began with p, similar to annunciation, or emphasis) that stumped 3 adults with...8 degrees between us!

    Their 4-year-old daughter knew it and what it meant though...

    It is a different world.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648
    ddraver said:

    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Yes, I am resigned to that.

    I'm not doing the homework, she is. I can help obviously. I like teaching my own kid. I am also not above cheating the homework system if it's objectively ridiculous.

    Absolutely no problem teaching kids to think for themselves and work the system in their favour.

    You're being a bit naïve about how independently she'll be able to do it. Maybe you will be lucky.
    This. You need to play along and if you really want to change stuff join the governors.
    I am self aware enough that my own experience of school is not helpful for decision making in this regard.

    The school work is fine; I was a straight A student so I can help with the content but me and my wife know she will do the heavy lifting with the school itself and I’ll be backup.
    You'll find it's more difficult to help with homework, etc. if you haven't been to the meetings, workshops, and so on. Teaching, unsurprisingly has moved on a great deal since your or my time at school.
    Workshops?

    Lol half the parents can’t speak English, good luck to the teachers if they want to try that.

    Where do you think I’m sending them? To the local private school?!
    " I am self aware enough that my own experience of school is not helpful for decision making in this regard."

    You need to apply this not just think it is true. State schools invite parents in periodically to learn stuff. The reason is that most six year olds know what a split diagraph is whereas most adults don't. You can disagree with the teaching methods, but that is the current approach.


    I visited my BFFs recently and there was a word to do with learning reading (began with p, similar to annunciation, or emphasis) that stumped 3 adults with...8 degrees between us!

    Their 4-year-old daughter knew it and what it meant though...

    It is a different world.
    Phonetics?
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,919
    Phoneme would be my guess.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,374
    ...or possibly phonology.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,919
    You lot need to go some of these parent workshops. There is a vast array of pointless words to learn.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited July 2023

    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Yes, I am resigned to that.

    I'm not doing the homework, she is. I can help obviously. I like teaching my own kid. I am also not above cheating the homework system if it's objectively ridiculous.

    Absolutely no problem teaching kids to think for themselves and work the system in their favour.

    You're being a bit naïve about how independently she'll be able to do it. Maybe you will be lucky.
    This. You need to play along and if you really want to change stuff join the governors.
    I am self aware enough that my own experience of school is not helpful for decision making in this regard.

    The school work is fine; I was a straight A student so I can help with the content but me and my wife know she will do the heavy lifting with the school itself and I’ll be backup.
    You'll find it's more difficult to help with homework, etc. if you haven't been to the meetings, workshops, and so on. Teaching, unsurprisingly has moved on a great deal since your or my time at school.
    Workshops?

    Lol half the parents can’t speak English, good luck to the teachers if they want to try that.

    Where do you think I’m sending them? To the local private school?!
    " I am self aware enough that my own experience of school is not helpful for decision making in this regard."

    You need to apply this not just think it is true. State schools invite parents in periodically to learn stuff. The reason is that most six year olds know what a split diagraph is whereas most adults don't. You can disagree with the teaching methods, but that is the current approach.



    Genuinely, what do they do with parents who don’t speak English?

    It’s not uncommon at the pre school pickup to be the only English speakers there, or at the very least in the minority.

    I suspect this’ll change when all the full time nursery kids who stuck with their nursery when they were put in at 1 years old turn up, but it’s at least 1/3rd of the class.

    Edit: it’s not hard to look this stuff up.

    Here we go, quick google, split digraph is a digraph split by a consonant, eg the an and e in cake.

    Digraph is, (clue is in the name) two vowels that combined to make a sound in a word, like ea in leak.

    Quadgraph is the same but with the ough sound or other 4 letters.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    Nope, none of them.

    (I genuinely can't remember it, or as it turns out enough to google it, sorry. It was to do with getting the child to "act" what is read rather than just recognise the words in order.

    So...
    The dog ate the toast from the table
    "Stop", said mumma bear
    "Bad dog" said pappa bear

    would be read as

    STOP!! said mumma bear ,
    BAD DOG! said pappa bear )

    (turns out I can't remember how to do direct speech neither...)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    PROSODY!!!!!!

    (Oh man I'm turning Google Search History off! Ewww! Ewww! Ewww!)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,374
    ddraver said:

    Nope, none of them.

    (I genuinely can't remember it, or as it turns out enough to google it, sorry. It was to do with getting the child to "act" what is read rather than just recognise the words in order.

    So...
    The dog ate the toast from the table
    "Stop", said mumma bear
    "Bad dog" said pappa bear

    would be read as

    STOP!! said mumma bear ,
    BAD DOG! said pappa bear )

    (turns out I can't remember how to do direct speech neither...)


    I've looked for p*ciation words, and there's nothing that matches your description.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    (found it now ^^)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,374
    ddraver said:

    PROSODY!!!!!!

    (Oh man I'm turning Google Search History off! Ewww! Ewww! Ewww!)


    I mean, WTF? I'm all for exposing children to ideas that might challenge (and possibly be beyond) their intellect, but...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosody_(linguistics)
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    I mean...seems like madness doesnt it but we have to accept that it's working.

    Now how useful it is to concentrate on it to that level of detail at that age is another question. However, we can be pretty certain that learning anything else without being able to read is a whole lot harder...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    I hated helping my kids with maths homework especially. I could tell them the answer and even explain how I worked it out but they would just say “that’s not how you do it”. The methods they used always felt contrived but I think it may have been that I would missed steps because I could multiply in my head due to the way we learned tables parrot fashion.

    Geography at secondary level wasn’t so bad. History was a write off unless they did the same small sections that I did.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,374
    ddraver said:

    I mean...seems like madness doesnt it but we have to accept that it's working.

    Now how useful it is to concentrate on it to that level of detail at that age is another question. However, we can be pretty certain that learning anything else without being able to read is a whole lot harder...


    OK, I probably need to read this (making sure my voice goes up and down a lot).

    https://wisewordsliteracy.com/help-children-read-with-fluency-and-expression/
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    Biggest thing I found out is that they don't have to do coursework any more. Gove got rid of the lot!

    Can't say that writing a science student writing essay, write up, paper etc. for the first time in Year 1 of uni seems like a great idea really, but...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,374
    I guess that's an area where (I guess) good bedtime story-telling will have quite a big impact: bringing stories to life by the way they are told.

    I used to have a pupil whose mum was a professional story-teller, and I never got to hear her work, which I regret.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    I challenge anyone to read The Gruffalo better than me!

    voices and everything...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,374
    ddraver said:

    I challenge anyone to read The Gruffalo better than me!

    voices and everything...


    Probably less problematic than one of the books my mum used to read to us (she read very well too, and brought texts alive.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epaminondas_(children's_story)

    And googling that, I've just learnt that his name came from some Greek bloke who best the Spartans.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,562

    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Yes, I am resigned to that.

    I'm not doing the homework, she is. I can help obviously. I like teaching my own kid. I am also not above cheating the homework system if it's objectively ridiculous.

    Absolutely no problem teaching kids to think for themselves and work the system in their favour.

    You're being a bit naïve about how independently she'll be able to do it. Maybe you will be lucky.
    This. You need to play along and if you really want to change stuff join the governors.
    I am self aware enough that my own experience of school is not helpful for decision making in this regard.

    The school work is fine; I was a straight A student so I can help with the content but me and my wife know she will do the heavy lifting with the school itself and I’ll be backup.
    You'll find it's more difficult to help with homework, etc. if you haven't been to the meetings, workshops, and so on. Teaching, unsurprisingly has moved on a great deal since your or my time at school.
    Workshops?

    Lol half the parents can’t speak English, good luck to the teachers if they want to try that.

    Where do you think I’m sending them? To the local private school?!
    This is what I mean. Ordinary state primaries will run short evening workshops for parents to explain how they are teaching reading, maths, whatever, because it's not the way you or I were taught.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    Pa raver still has a "Little Black Sambo" book somewhere... 😶
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver