LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

First.Aspect

rjsterry said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

First.Aspect said:

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

The ULEZ didn't ban anything, so you wouldn't expect a sudden drop in pollution, but a gradual reduction as people change habits and replace older vehicles. The graph is countering the argument that the ULEZ would see a spike in pollution outside it's boundaries as traffic was diverted.

Here's a similar graph showing NO2 levels in various locations. The drop in roadside levels (red curve) either side of 2019 is pretty clear.


https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/ulez_evaluation_report_2020-v8_finalfinal.pdf

As a side note it's quite gratifying that even major official documents have file names ending ...v8_finalfinal.pdf

Did anything else happen in 2019?

Is that rhetorical? I can’t think of anything off the top of my head that would significantly have affected pollution levels.

I was thinking about the start of a generational pandemic at the end of the year, followed by a generational change in working patterns.

I suppose that was about 2-3 months into 2020, but if the changes are gradual....

The drop starts back in 2017. Of course the pandemic would help in early 2020, but you would expect a pretty strong rebound. Also, office workers who switched to WFH were likely to be using public transport anyway.

Er. But you are arguing it is a result of ULEZ.

If it started in 2017, how can that be?

Comes back to my point of correlation not necessarily being causation.

No one is arguing thelat improved air quality of a bad thing, but it isn't clear from those data that its anything to do with ULEZ. Don't let the fact that the report comes from a .ac.uk domain prevent you from thinking.

There was an emissions surcharge on the congestion charge introduced in 2017.

So why was it flat throughout the period of the congestion charge in the 2010s?

There isn't causation here other than EuroNcap.

Euro NCAP is a car safety rating system. I assume you mean the European Emissions Standards? If so then one of the aims of the ULEZ is to encourage people to change their cars to a newer standard so it is surely related.

Yes, that's what I meant.

Is there any evidence that ULEZ is encouraging people to change their cars? Or on the whole to residents of the richest areas of the UK tend to change their cars more frequently than every 7 years anyway?

You could even read the detailed report I posted. Stevo will be so proud.

I have, it's not science.

They start with the premise that the ULEZ did have an effect from 2017 (so given that it wasn't in effect until 2019 is curious) and then states that Covid makes data interpretation difficult, before anyway tentatively concluding that the presumption that ULEZ was already having an effect has continued, based on measured ULEZ compliance.

Given the range of error, I'm not sure much can be concluded at all based on data from 2019-2021. There is no effort to comment on changes that would have occurred anyway due to emissions standards changes, and no effort to plot traffic volume changes before 2019.

It is a tour de force of confirmation bias.

I'm happy with ULEZ zones on the whole because I'm a cyclist who likes his lungs. And to my mind ULEZ reduces traffic volume. On which basis I'd be more in favour of a congestion charging model that covered all motor vehicles, even electric frankly, because they still make using a city horrible for pedestrians and cyclists, and worse for anyone who really has to drive there.

However I do like informed debate.

If it does nothing then surely it's a great money spinner for the local gov't which are usually too cash strapped to do anything around public transport anyway.

win win.

I'm sort of also generally in favour of fairness and transparency.

I suspect if it really was a congestion charge, there'd be less opposition.

I think you're very wrong here - the extended congestion charge zone only lasted 3 years due to opposition. Suddenly charging everyone to take their kids to school would not be popular.

Fine by me. There's no excuse in London.

I'm going to shock you here - but that won't stop there being vocal opposition to it.

Do I need some carrots at the same time?

It's really difficult to go a long way to a state primary school in London. Secondary school children take themselves.

Therefore, the only kids needing transport to schools are the unbelievably lazy primary school kids and those going to private schools. If I'm a Labour PM do I need to worry about the latter?

I'd also bring in the stick and encourage police to fine parents dropping off where they shouldn't. E.g. a private school near me has nowhere to drop off, so it is just traffic chaos as all the cars stop all over the place.

Perhaps I can generously not add VAT to school fees at the same time.

There is no carrot you can offer that will stop opposition to any policy that restricts what car drivers can do.

True. Look at the ULEZ whinging from people it doesn't even affect

I'm not whinging about it, just questioning the branding and daring to acknowledge that if it affected me I'd be annoyed about it.

There is one coming to Edinburgh, once the council cam actually afford cameras. I'm not whinging about that.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

I was reading this, and well, it's pretty impressive, though it runs directly in counter to my renewed interactions with schools, 17 years after I last had any interaction.

https://www.economist.com/britain/2023/07/13/the-strange-success-of-the-tories-schools-policy

There is an exception. Under the Conservatives, England’s schools have improved. England is now the best in the West when it comes to reading at primary-school age, according to one ranking. When it comes to maths, English students of the same age have improved compared with their European peers (even if they lag Asian ones). Scotland, whose progressive education system is loathed by Tories, has dribbled down the table. Historically, England was a laggard; now it is ahead.

Smaller targets have been met, too. More students study sciences and maths, as the Tories wanted. Maths has become the most popular subject at a-level, the exams English students sit at 18. Watered-down gcses, the exams children sit at 16, have been replaced by more rigorous versions. In 2010, 68% of schools were rated good or outstanding by inspectors. Now the figure is 88%. In a stint of government in which achievements are few, schools stand out

Haven't read the article. The UK prioritises reading at an early age whereas other countries such as Denmark and Australia (I think) start much later. I don't think they would accept that the UK is ahead because they would use different metrics.

Jezyboy

Colleague had children in an outstanding school, so it wasn't inspected for years. Got inspected in their last a level year and was then downgraded to needs improvement.

So they pull a chemistry teacher out of full time teaching to manage the improvements, leaving the kid without a chemistry teacher.

Also their uni application is treated as if they come from an outstanding school, rather than one rated as needs improvement, even though they end up having to tech themselves the last few months of a level chemistry.

shirley_basso

rick_chasey said:

Oh mate, no need, I've already had enough with them just with the bloody introduction sessions ahead of the start in September.

Why oh why did I have to take a cumulative 6hours out of my day to still not know a) who the teacher will be b) what classroom it will be in and c) when pick up time is (it's changing...).

F*ck me. They can't communicate for sh!t, tell me to trust them when they give me all the reasons not to, and yet somehow involve me far more than I want to be involved.

I've already done school, christ alive.

Why didn't your wife just go? I thought she doesn't work. Priorities.

rick_chasey

shirley_basso said:

rick_chasey said:

Oh mate, no need, I've already had enough with them just with the bloody introduction sessions ahead of the start in September.

Why oh why did I have to take a cumulative 6hours out of my day to still not know a) who the teacher will be b) what classroom it will be in and c) when pick up time is (it's changing...).

F*ck me. They can't communicate for sh!t, tell me to trust them when they give me all the reasons not to, and yet somehow involve me far more than I want to be involved.

I've already done school, christ alive.

Why didn't your wife just go? I thought she doesn't work. Priorities.

It was made quite clear both parents were expected to attend if possible.

wallace_and_gromit

rick_chasey said:

Oh mate, no need, I've already had enough with them just with the bloody introduction sessions ahead of the start in September.

Why oh why did I have to take a cumulative 6hours out of my day to still not know a) who the teacher will be b) what classroom it will be in and c) when pick up time is (it's changing...).

F*ck me. They can't communicate for sh!t, tell me to trust them when they give me all the reasons not to, and yet somehow involve me far more than I want to be involved.

I've already done school, christ alive.

Chasey vs the education system will be “the gift that keeps on giving” for the next 13 years…

rick_chasey

Yeah. After this skirmish I intend to be as uninvolved with the actual school as possible.

My child is going, not me, so the focus is on them.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

Oh mate, no need, I've already had enough with them just with the bloody introduction sessions ahead of the start in September.

Why oh why did I have to take a cumulative 6hours out of my day to still not know a) who the teacher will be b) what classroom it will be in and c) when pick up time is (it's changing...).

F*ck me. They can't communicate for sh!t, tell me to trust them when they give me all the reasons not to, and yet somehow involve me far more than I want to be involved.

I've already done school, christ alive.

Much prefer the nursery years. Everything is so much better.

My latest primary school annoyance is why they are incapable of looking for a name tag on lost property. It must take at least a second of their time.

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

shirley_basso said:

rick_chasey said:

Oh mate, no need, I've already had enough with them just with the bloody introduction sessions ahead of the start in September.

Why oh why did I have to take a cumulative 6hours out of my day to still not know a) who the teacher will be b) what classroom it will be in and c) when pick up time is (it's changing...).

F*ck me. They can't communicate for sh!t, tell me to trust them when they give me all the reasons not to, and yet somehow involve me far more than I want to be involved.

I've already done school, christ alive.

Why didn't your wife just go? I thought she doesn't work. Priorities.

It was made quite clear both parents were expected to attend if possible.

JWhat are they going to do if you miss one, frown at you the next time and then try to talk down to you?

Stevo_666

wallace_and_gromit said:

rick_chasey said:

Oh mate, no need, I've already had enough with them just with the bloody introduction sessions ahead of the start in September.

Why oh why did I have to take a cumulative 6hours out of my day to still not know a) who the teacher will be b) what classroom it will be in and c) when pick up time is (it's changing...).

F*ck me. They can't communicate for sh!t, tell me to trust them when they give me all the reasons not to, and yet somehow involve me far more than I want to be involved.

I've already done school, christ alive.

Chasey vs the education system will be “the gift that keeps on giving” for the next 13 years…

My suspicion is that it will fit in somewhere above trains but below old people.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

Yeah. After this skirmish I intend to be as uninvolved with the actual school as possible.

My child is going, not me, so the focus is on them.

They get homework now. Plus, you may need to accept that a lot of teaching happens at home.

rick_chasey

Yes, I am resigned to that.

I'm not doing the homework, she is. I can help obviously. I like teaching my own kid. I am also not above cheating the homework system if it's objectively ridiculous.

Absolutely no problem teaching kids to think for themselves and work the system in their favour.

rjsterry

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

First.Aspect said:

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

The ULEZ didn't ban anything, so you wouldn't expect a sudden drop in pollution, but a gradual reduction as people change habits and replace older vehicles. The graph is countering the argument that the ULEZ would see a spike in pollution outside it's boundaries as traffic was diverted.

Here's a similar graph showing NO2 levels in various locations. The drop in roadside levels (red curve) either side of 2019 is pretty clear.


https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/ulez_evaluation_report_2020-v8_finalfinal.pdf

As a side note it's quite gratifying that even major official documents have file names ending ...v8_finalfinal.pdf

Did anything else happen in 2019?

Is that rhetorical? I can’t think of anything off the top of my head that would significantly have affected pollution levels.

I was thinking about the start of a generational pandemic at the end of the year, followed by a generational change in working patterns.

I suppose that was about 2-3 months into 2020, but if the changes are gradual....

The drop starts back in 2017. Of course the pandemic would help in early 2020, but you would expect a pretty strong rebound. Also, office workers who switched to WFH were likely to be using public transport anyway.

Er. But you are arguing it is a result of ULEZ.

If it started in 2017, how can that be?

Comes back to my point of correlation not necessarily being causation.

No one is arguing thelat improved air quality of a bad thing, but it isn't clear from those data that its anything to do with ULEZ. Don't let the fact that the report comes from a .ac.uk domain prevent you from thinking.

There was an emissions surcharge on the congestion charge introduced in 2017.

So why was it flat throughout the period of the congestion charge in the 2010s?

There isn't causation here other than EuroNcap.

Euro NCAP is a car safety rating system. I assume you mean the European Emissions Standards? If so then one of the aims of the ULEZ is to encourage people to change their cars to a newer standard so it is surely related.

Yes, that's what I meant.

Is there any evidence that ULEZ is encouraging people to change their cars? Or on the whole to residents of the richest areas of the UK tend to change their cars more frequently than every 7 years anyway?

You could even read the detailed report I posted. Stevo will be so proud.

I have, it's not science.

They start with the premise that the ULEZ did have an effect from 2017 (so given that it wasn't in effect until 2019 is curious) and then states that Covid makes data interpretation difficult, before anyway tentatively concluding that the presumption that ULEZ was already having an effect has continued, based on measured ULEZ compliance.

Given the range of error, I'm not sure much can be concluded at all based on data from 2019-2021. There is no effort to comment on changes that would have occurred anyway due to emissions standards changes, and no effort to plot traffic volume changes before 2019.

It is a tour de force of confirmation bias.

I'm happy with ULEZ zones on the whole because I'm a cyclist who likes his lungs. And to my mind ULEZ reduces traffic volume. On which basis I'd be more in favour of a congestion charging model that covered all motor vehicles, even electric frankly, because they still make using a city horrible for pedestrians and cyclists, and worse for anyone who really has to drive there.

However I do like informed debate.

If it does nothing then surely it's a great money spinner for the local gov't which are usually too cash strapped to do anything around public transport anyway.

win win.

I'm sort of also generally in favour of fairness and transparency.

I suspect if it really was a congestion charge, there'd be less opposition.

I think you're very wrong here - the extended congestion charge zone only lasted 3 years due to opposition. Suddenly charging everyone to take their kids to school would not be popular.

Fine by me. There's no excuse in London.

I'm going to shock you here - but that won't stop there being vocal opposition to it.

Do I need some carrots at the same time?

It's really difficult to go a long way to a state primary school in London. Secondary school children take themselves.

Therefore, the only kids needing transport to schools are the unbelievably lazy primary school kids and those going to private schools. If I'm a Labour PM do I need to worry about the latter?

I'd also bring in the stick and encourage police to fine parents dropping off where they shouldn't. E.g. a private school near me has nowhere to drop off, so it is just traffic chaos as all the cars stop all over the place.

Perhaps I can generously not add VAT to school fees at the same time.

There is no carrot you can offer that will stop opposition to any policy that restricts what car drivers can do.

True. Look at the ULEZ whinging from people it doesn't even affect

I'm not whinging about it, just questioning the branding and daring to acknowledge that if it affected me I'd be annoyed about it.

There is one coming to Edinburgh, once the council cam actually afford cameras. I'm not whinging about that.

I didn't mean you. 😀

Pross

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Yeah. After this skirmish I intend to be as uninvolved with the actual school as possible.

My child is going, not me, so the focus is on them.

They get homework now. Plus, you may need to accept that a lot of teaching happens at home.

I thought that was what AI is for?

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

Oh mate, no need, I've already had enough with them just with the bloody introduction sessions ahead of the start in September.

Why oh why did I have to take a cumulative 6hours out of my day to still not know a) who the teacher will be b) what classroom it will be in and c) when pick up time is (it's changing...).

F*ck me. They can't communicate for sh!t, tell me to trust them when they give me all the reasons not to, and yet somehow involve me far more than I want to be involved.

I've already done school, christ alive.

Am glad the youngest has finished primary school. Secondary is another country in terms of overall organisation and individual support.

First.Aspect

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

First.Aspect said:

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

The ULEZ didn't ban anything, so you wouldn't expect a sudden drop in pollution, but a gradual reduction as people change habits and replace older vehicles. The graph is countering the argument that the ULEZ would see a spike in pollution outside it's boundaries as traffic was diverted.

Here's a similar graph showing NO2 levels in various locations. The drop in roadside levels (red curve) either side of 2019 is pretty clear.


https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/ulez_evaluation_report_2020-v8_finalfinal.pdf

As a side note it's quite gratifying that even major official documents have file names ending ...v8_finalfinal.pdf

Did anything else happen in 2019?

Is that rhetorical? I can’t think of anything off the top of my head that would significantly have affected pollution levels.

I was thinking about the start of a generational pandemic at the end of the year, followed by a generational change in working patterns.

I suppose that was about 2-3 months into 2020, but if the changes are gradual....

The drop starts back in 2017. Of course the pandemic would help in early 2020, but you would expect a pretty strong rebound. Also, office workers who switched to WFH were likely to be using public transport anyway.

Er. But you are arguing it is a result of ULEZ.

If it started in 2017, how can that be?

Comes back to my point of correlation not necessarily being causation.

No one is arguing thelat improved air quality of a bad thing, but it isn't clear from those data that its anything to do with ULEZ. Don't let the fact that the report comes from a .ac.uk domain prevent you from thinking.

There was an emissions surcharge on the congestion charge introduced in 2017.

So why was it flat throughout the period of the congestion charge in the 2010s?

There isn't causation here other than EuroNcap.

Euro NCAP is a car safety rating system. I assume you mean the European Emissions Standards? If so then one of the aims of the ULEZ is to encourage people to change their cars to a newer standard so it is surely related.

Yes, that's what I meant.

Is there any evidence that ULEZ is encouraging people to change their cars? Or on the whole to residents of the richest areas of the UK tend to change their cars more frequently than every 7 years anyway?

You could even read the detailed report I posted. Stevo will be so proud.

I have, it's not science.

They start with the premise that the ULEZ did have an effect from 2017 (so given that it wasn't in effect until 2019 is curious) and then states that Covid makes data interpretation difficult, before anyway tentatively concluding that the presumption that ULEZ was already having an effect has continued, based on measured ULEZ compliance.

Given the range of error, I'm not sure much can be concluded at all based on data from 2019-2021. There is no effort to comment on changes that would have occurred anyway due to emissions standards changes, and no effort to plot traffic volume changes before 2019.

It is a tour de force of confirmation bias.

I'm happy with ULEZ zones on the whole because I'm a cyclist who likes his lungs. And to my mind ULEZ reduces traffic volume. On which basis I'd be more in favour of a congestion charging model that covered all motor vehicles, even electric frankly, because they still make using a city horrible for pedestrians and cyclists, and worse for anyone who really has to drive there.

However I do like informed debate.

If it does nothing then surely it's a great money spinner for the local gov't which are usually too cash strapped to do anything around public transport anyway.

win win.

I'm sort of also generally in favour of fairness and transparency.

I suspect if it really was a congestion charge, there'd be less opposition.

I think you're very wrong here - the extended congestion charge zone only lasted 3 years due to opposition. Suddenly charging everyone to take their kids to school would not be popular.

Fine by me. There's no excuse in London.

I'm going to shock you here - but that won't stop there being vocal opposition to it.

Do I need some carrots at the same time?

It's really difficult to go a long way to a state primary school in London. Secondary school children take themselves.

Therefore, the only kids needing transport to schools are the unbelievably lazy primary school kids and those going to private schools. If I'm a Labour PM do I need to worry about the latter?

I'd also bring in the stick and encourage police to fine parents dropping off where they shouldn't. E.g. a private school near me has nowhere to drop off, so it is just traffic chaos as all the cars stop all over the place.

Perhaps I can generously not add VAT to school fees at the same time.

There is no carrot you can offer that will stop opposition to any policy that restricts what car drivers can do.

True. Look at the ULEZ whinging from people it doesn't even affect

I'm not whinging about it, just questioning the branding and daring to acknowledge that if it affected me I'd be annoyed about it.

There is one coming to Edinburgh, once the council cam actually afford cameras. I'm not whinging about that.

I didn't mean you. 😀

Good, because I have never, ever been accused of whinging. Ever. Well not often. Or today.

Pross

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Oh mate, no need, I've already had enough with them just with the bloody introduction sessions ahead of the start in September.

Why oh why did I have to take a cumulative 6hours out of my day to still not know a) who the teacher will be b) what classroom it will be in and c) when pick up time is (it's changing...).

F*ck me. They can't communicate for sh!t, tell me to trust them when they give me all the reasons not to, and yet somehow involve me far more than I want to be involved.

I've already done school, christ alive.

Am glad the youngest has finished primary school. Secondary is another country in terms of overall organisation and individual support.

I think it varies massively from school to school. I know education is devolved here but when my daughter went to secondary school she has a psychologist report on the additional support she needed due to the brain tumour she'd had. Every year it would get passed to the head of year and every year at parents' evening the various teachers would be completely unaware of it (or at least said they were). The only additional support she ever got was on the coattails of another child from the adjacent (more affluent) Council area who had managed to get statemented despite having no more severe issues. The management of the school makes a huge difference too, the primary school in particular had been superb until the head retired and it then fell apart when a new head was appointed who was supposed to job share across two schools and ended up messing up both.

rjsterry

Pross said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Oh mate, no need, I've already had enough with them just with the bloody introduction sessions ahead of the start in September.

Why oh why did I have to take a cumulative 6hours out of my day to still not know a) who the teacher will be b) what classroom it will be in and c) when pick up time is (it's changing...).

F*ck me. They can't communicate for sh!t, tell me to trust them when they give me all the reasons not to, and yet somehow involve me far more than I want to be involved.

I've already done school, christ alive.

Am glad the youngest has finished primary school. Secondary is another country in terms of overall organisation and individual support.

I think it varies massively from school to school. I know education is devolved here but when my daughter went to secondary school she has a psychologist report on the additional support she needed due to the brain tumour she'd had. Every year it would get passed to the head of year and every year at parents' evening the various teachers would be completely unaware of it (or at least said they were). The only additional support she ever got was on the coattails of another child from the adjacent (more affluent) Council area who had managed to get statemented despite having no more severe issues. The management of the school makes a huge difference too, the primary school in particular had been superb until the head retired and it then fell apart when a new head was appointed who was supposed to job share across two schools and ended up messing up both.

Would agree it all comes down to the quality of the head. The head of our secondary is pretty impressive whereas the primary has gone through several heads since our oldest started there. None were terrible but the oldest has completely taken off since she moved up to secondary.

briantrumpet

I'm not sure that this is how you encourage civil discourse in politics... it has the whiff of Sunak taking cues from Trumpism, if not with direct input from Trump's advisers, then certainly taking inspiration from their methods.

First.Aspect

briantrumpet said:

I'm not sure that this is how you encourage civil discourse in politics... it has the whiff of Sunak taking cues from Trumpism, if not with direct input from Trump's advisers, then certainly taking inspiration from their methods.

It's not even very good.

pblakeney

First.Aspect said:

briantrumpet said:

I'm not sure that this is how you encourage civil discourse in politics... it has the whiff of Sunak taking cues from Trumpism, if not with direct input from Trump's advisers, then certainly taking inspiration from their methods.

It's not even very good.

Plays right into the minds of certain voters though.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

Yes, I am resigned to that.

I'm not doing the homework, she is. I can help obviously. I like teaching my own kid. I am also not above cheating the homework system if it's objectively ridiculous.

Absolutely no problem teaching kids to think for themselves and work the system in their favour.

You're being a bit naïve about how independently she'll be able to do it. Maybe you will be lucky.

wallace_and_gromit

rick_chasey said:

Yeah. After this skirmish I intend to be as uninvolved with the actual school as possible.

My child is going, not me, so the focus is on them.

Well that’s what they all say, but you’ll see “Alpha Mum” etc getting all chummy with the Head and you’ll have to retaliate for fear of lesser children being awarded “Good Work Certificates” in Assembly in preference to Chasey Junior. Before you know it, you’ll be on the PTA, organising the School Fete. And it’s well known that organising the Tombola at Christmas is a “gateway drug” to becoming a Governor. Or at least losing in the election to Alpha Mum and her friends.

wallace_and_gromit

And then there’s the parents’ race on sports day. Though that’s more of a risk for Mrs Chasey, as Alpha Mum will have rigged the system to ensure she wins. Though you won’t know that until it’s too late!

If you’re lucky you’ll just have to get drunk and fight the other Dads at the nearest pub.

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Yes, I am resigned to that.

I'm not doing the homework, she is. I can help obviously. I like teaching my own kid. I am also not above cheating the homework system if it's objectively ridiculous.

Absolutely no problem teaching kids to think for themselves and work the system in their favour.

You're being a bit naïve about how independently she'll be able to do it. Maybe you will be lucky.

This. You need to play along and if you really want to change stuff join the governors.

Jezyboy

First.Aspect said:

briantrumpet said:

I'm not sure that this is how you encourage civil discourse in politics... it has the whiff of Sunak taking cues from Trumpism, if not with direct input from Trump's advisers, then certainly taking inspiration from their methods.

It's not even very good.

There's a part of me that sees this and goes "is that it". This feels like simultaneously a nasty bit of politics, but also quite boring, considering it's clearly meant to be an all out over the top attack piece!

wallace_and_gromit

Jezyboy said:

First.Aspect said:

briantrumpet said:

I'm not sure that this is how you encourage civil discourse in politics... it has the whiff of Sunak taking cues from Trumpism, if not with direct input from Trump's advisers, then certainly taking inspiration from their methods.

It's not even very good.

There's a part of me that sees this and goes "is that it". This feels like simultaneously a nasty bit of politics, but also quite boring, considering it's clearly meant to be an all out over the top attack piece!

Sunak’s “attacks” remind me of the protest chants in one of the Terry Pratchett novels:

What do we want?
Orderly change!
When to we want it?
As soon as is convenient!

rick_chasey

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Yes, I am resigned to that.

I'm not doing the homework, she is. I can help obviously. I like teaching my own kid. I am also not above cheating the homework system if it's objectively ridiculous.

Absolutely no problem teaching kids to think for themselves and work the system in their favour.

You're being a bit naïve about how independently she'll be able to do it. Maybe you will be lucky.

This. You need to play along and if you really want to change stuff join the governors.

I am self aware enough that my own experience of school is not helpful for decision making in this regard.

The school work is fine; I was a straight A student so I can help with the content but me and my wife know she will do the heavy lifting with the school itself and I’ll be backup.

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Yes, I am resigned to that.

I'm not doing the homework, she is. I can help obviously. I like teaching my own kid. I am also not above cheating the homework system if it's objectively ridiculous.

Absolutely no problem teaching kids to think for themselves and work the system in their favour.

You're being a bit naïve about how independently she'll be able to do it. Maybe you will be lucky.

This. You need to play along and if you really want to change stuff join the governors.

I am self aware enough that my own experience of school is not helpful for decision making in this regard.

The school work is fine; I was a straight A student so I can help with the content but me and my wife know she will do the heavy lifting with the school itself and I’ll be backup.

You'll find it's more difficult to help with homework, etc. if you haven't been to the meetings, workshops, and so on. Teaching, unsurprisingly has moved on a great deal since your or my time at school.

pangolin

rick_chasey said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Yes, I am resigned to that.

I'm not doing the homework, she is. I can help obviously. I like teaching my own kid. I am also not above cheating the homework system if it's objectively ridiculous.

Absolutely no problem teaching kids to think for themselves and work the system in their favour.

You're being a bit naïve about how independently she'll be able to do it. Maybe you will be lucky.

This. You need to play along and if you really want to change stuff join the governors.

I am self aware enough that my own experience of school is not helpful for decision making in this regard.

The school work is fine; I was a straight A student so I can help with the content but me and my wife know she will do the heavy lifting with the school itself and I’ll be backup.

Do not assume being a good student 20-30 years ago translates to getting the way maths and english are taught now.

Sure it's all learnable stuff but you won't be able to glance at the homework and know what to do.