LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!
Comments
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I actually think that's wrong.TheBigBean said:Might interest some people. Boris isn't doing that badly apparently.
https://unherd.com/2020/12/why-boris-is-still-beating-labour/
The writer is using Brexit as a proxy for the whole culture war that Labour has decided is really important to oppose the majority view of its voters on. It's not Brexit, it's everything else.
Also, people don't blame the government for the government's failings when lots of other governments fuck up too.
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I remember reading his "why we need populism" article where he basically justifies populism as a legit response to problems without addressing the issue that the solutions only make it worse. He mainly posits populism as natural (and thus OK) and it being entirely up to the 'liberal left' to answer populist questions.TheBigBean said:Might interest some people. Boris isn't doing that badly apparently.
https://unherd.com/2020/12/why-boris-is-still-beating-labour/
At a glance, I will read it later, it looks like he's running a similar line of argument - BoJo is popular as he's populist and that's the "left's fault", though it does look like he buys into my left/right realignment argument on cultural rather than economic lines.0 -
AND - it will take more than a year to recover from Corbyn's takeover.0
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OK, the opposition is still crap even after they have a slightly less than disastrous new team captain. But it does show that there is more to it than the obsessive and knee jerk Tory bashing on here - as ever, the CS bubble is just that.TheBigBean said:Might interest some people. Boris isn't doing that badly apparently.
https://unherd.com/2020/12/why-boris-is-still-beating-labour/"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
You are supporting a party that has been taken over by populists who are behaving in exactly like you'd expect populists to do - lining the pockets of their mates at the expense of the public and trying to take over the professional institutions for their own cronyist ideology.Stevo_666 said:
OK, the opposition is still censored even after they have a slightly less than disastrous new team captain. But it does show that there is more to it than the obsessive and knee jerk Tory bashing on here - as ever, the CS bubble is just that.TheBigBean said:Might interest some people. Boris isn't doing that badly apparently.
https://unherd.com/2020/12/why-boris-is-still-beating-labour/
That this is popular with the public and therefore good is about as convincing an argument as the emperors nose is an inch long because that's what the public says it is.
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I wish someone would let a Tory voter come on here.0
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Oh my god this guy says Rab Butler was the best prime minister the UK never had! The geezer was one of the main leaders for the Hitler appeasement. He persuaded Chamberlain to not sign up to an Anglo-Russian alliance and made it public he disagreed with the UK promise to defend Poland.TheBigBean said:Might interest some people. Boris isn't doing that badly apparently.
https://unherd.com/2020/12/why-boris-is-still-beating-labour/0 -
I guess the other point is that if the Conservatives spend money and make things better for the less well off, then that's great. If they don't, will they keep those voters?
So far, they've thrown money at a problem with no ambition to raise it. They can do spending like Labour without the question "how are you going to pay for it", because of a historical perception of them being better on responsible spending.0 -
My points were:
1. New Old Labouris still useless
2. The views in Cake Stop are not representative of the wider public view, as your reply just demonstrated.
Show me an alternative that would be worth voting for."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
These two points are not controversial.Stevo_666 said:My points were:
1. New Old Labouris still useless
2. The views in Cake Stop are not representative of the wider public view, as your reply just demonstrated.
I voted for Boris once, you know.
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Fair enough.kingstongraham said:
These two points are not controversial.Stevo_666 said:My points were:
1. New Old Labouris still useless
2. The views in Cake Stop are not representative of the wider public view, as your reply just demonstrated.
I voted for Boris once, you know.
No suggestions on viable alternatives for me to vote for?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Any alternative in 4yrs will almost certainly not be up against a govt led by Spaffer. For better or worse...0
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For mayor or in the general election?kingstongraham said:
These two points are not controversial.Stevo_666 said:My points were:
1. New Old Labouris still useless
2. The views in Cake Stop are not representative of the wider public view, as your reply just demonstrated.
I voted for Boris once, you know.0 -
Mate you literally went out of your way to help ensure there was no viable alternative.Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough.kingstongraham said:
These two points are not controversial.Stevo_666 said:My points were:
1. New Old Labouris still useless
2. The views in Cake Stop are not representative of the wider public view, as your reply just demonstrated.
I voted for Boris once, you know.
No suggestions on viable alternatives for me to vote for?
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I don't think so.Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough.kingstongraham said:
These two points are not controversial.Stevo_666 said:My points were:
1. New Old Labouris still useless
2. The views in Cake Stop are not representative of the wider public view, as your reply just demonstrated.
I voted for Boris once, you know.
No suggestions on viable alternatives for me to vote for?0 -
I never tried to shaft the Lib Dems, only Labour. Does this mean you accept that the Lib Dems aren't a viable alternative?rick_chasey said:
Mate you literally went out of your way to help ensure there was no viable alternative.Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough.kingstongraham said:
These two points are not controversial.Stevo_666 said:My points were:
1. New Old Labouris still useless
2. The views in Cake Stop are not representative of the wider public view, as your reply just demonstrated.
I voted for Boris once, you know.
No suggestions on viable alternatives for me to vote for?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
What constituency?Stevo_666 said:
I never tried to shaft the Lib Dems, only Labour. Does this mean you accept that the Lib Dems aren't a viable alternative?rick_chasey said:
Mate you literally went out of your way to help ensure there was no viable alternative.Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough.kingstongraham said:
These two points are not controversial.Stevo_666 said:My points were:
1. New Old Labouris still useless
2. The views in Cake Stop are not representative of the wider public view, as your reply just demonstrated.
I voted for Boris once, you know.
No suggestions on viable alternatives for me to vote for?0 -
Labour are less bad than they were under Corbyn, but still not good (or at least, haven't convinced enough voters).
Conservatives are currently doing an awful job.
These two points are not mutually exclusive Stevo, don't pretend they are.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
I'm not pretending anything. I made the points above and that's all. Which ones do you disagree with?pangolin said:Labour are less bad than they were under Corbyn, but still not good (or at least, haven't convinced enough voters).
Conservatives are currently doing an awful job.
These two points are not mutually exclusive Stevo, don't pretend they are."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Question to Rick...kingstongraham said:
What constituency?Stevo_666 said:
I never tried to shaft the Lib Dems, only Labour. Does this mean you accept that the Lib Dems aren't a viable alternative?rick_chasey said:
Mate you literally went out of your way to help ensure there was no viable alternative.Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough.kingstongraham said:
These two points are not controversial.Stevo_666 said:My points were:
1. New Old Labouris still useless
2. The views in Cake Stop are not representative of the wider public view, as your reply just demonstrated.
I voted for Boris once, you know.
No suggestions on viable alternatives for me to vote for?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Conservatives were 4 points ahead when Johnson took over, 22 points ahead when Starmer took over, and 1 point ahead latest.0
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You pose the question of what alternatives like you are honestly open to considering alternatives.Stevo_666 said:
I never tried to shaft the Lib Dems, only Labour. Does this mean you accept that the Lib Dems aren't a viable alternative?rick_chasey said:
Mate you literally went out of your way to help ensure there was no viable alternative.Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough.kingstongraham said:
These two points are not controversial.Stevo_666 said:My points were:
1. New Old Labouris still useless
2. The views in Cake Stop are not representative of the wider public view, as your reply just demonstrated.
I voted for Boris once, you know.
No suggestions on viable alternatives for me to vote for?
But your actions show you are genuinely not interested in alternatives as you go out of your way to shut them down.
Therefore your argument is in bad faith.
You would do well in Russia.
“Vote for Putin - all other alternatives are rubbish as they are dead” lol0 -
you've largely describe your own views and position on things.rick_chasey said:
You pose the question of what alternatives like you are honestly open to considering alternatives.Stevo_666 said:
I never tried to shaft the Lib Dems, only Labour. Does this mean you accept that the Lib Dems aren't a viable alternative?rick_chasey said:
Mate you literally went out of your way to help ensure there was no viable alternative.Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough.kingstongraham said:
These two points are not controversial.Stevo_666 said:My points were:
1. New Old Labouris still useless
2. The views in Cake Stop are not representative of the wider public view, as your reply just demonstrated.
I voted for Boris once, you know.
No suggestions on viable alternatives for me to vote for?
But your actions show you are genuinely not interested in alternatives as you go out of your way to shut them down.
Therefore your argument is in bad faith.
You would do well in Russia.
“Vote for Putin - all other alternatives are rubbish as they are dead” lol
Hypocrite.2 -
https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/kingstongraham said:Conservatives were 4 points ahead when Johnson took over, 22 points ahead when Starmer took over, and 1 point ahead latest.
The graph of ongoing opinion polls doesn't really feel like it matches the cut and thrust of the argument in unheard.
I think one of Boris's saving grace around the second covid wave has been that most of Europe has been a bit naff.
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Spell that out for me as I don’t understand.Dorset_Boy said:
you've largely describe your own views and position on things.rick_chasey said:
You pose the question of what alternatives like you are honestly open to considering alternatives.Stevo_666 said:
I never tried to shaft the Lib Dems, only Labour. Does this mean you accept that the Lib Dems aren't a viable alternative?rick_chasey said:
Mate you literally went out of your way to help ensure there was no viable alternative.Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough.kingstongraham said:
These two points are not controversial.Stevo_666 said:My points were:
1. New Old Labouris still useless
2. The views in Cake Stop are not representative of the wider public view, as your reply just demonstrated.
I voted for Boris once, you know.
No suggestions on viable alternatives for me to vote for?
But your actions show you are genuinely not interested in alternatives as you go out of your way to shut them down.
Therefore your argument is in bad faith.
You would do well in Russia.
“Vote for Putin - all other alternatives are rubbish as they are dead” lol
Hypocrite.
I haven’t joined other parties to vote in unelectable leaders to the benefit of the one I support?0 -
Starmer has helped him out a lot by not just opposing everything. Johnson would look very weak if Labour had voted him down every time he could lose, 80 seat majority or not.
Edit to add, this is mostly a good thing.0 -
Fairly clear - you are not interested in allowing alternative views to possibly alter your own. Exactly what you accuese others of.rick_chasey said:
Spell that out for me as I don’t understand.Dorset_Boy said:
you've largely describe your own views and position on things.rick_chasey said:
You pose the question of what alternatives like you are honestly open to considering alternatives.Stevo_666 said:
I never tried to shaft the Lib Dems, only Labour. Does this mean you accept that the Lib Dems aren't a viable alternative?rick_chasey said:
Mate you literally went out of your way to help ensure there was no viable alternative.Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough.kingstongraham said:
These two points are not controversial.Stevo_666 said:My points were:
1. New Old Labouris still useless
2. The views in Cake Stop are not representative of the wider public view, as your reply just demonstrated.
I voted for Boris once, you know.
No suggestions on viable alternatives for me to vote for?
But your actions show you are genuinely not interested in alternatives as you go out of your way to shut them down.
Therefore your argument is in bad faith.
You would do well in Russia.
“Vote for Putin - all other alternatives are rubbish as they are dead” lol
Hypocrite.
I haven’t joined other parties to vote in unelectable leaders to the benefit of the one I support?1 -
Well, we've obviously got at least one tory voter, but I'm not sure there are any Conservatives left.kingstongraham said:I wish someone would let a Tory voter come on here.
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If you think that makes me a hypocrite you don’t understand the point I am making.Dorset_Boy said:
Fairly clear - you are not interested in allowing alternative views to possibly alter your own. Exactly what you accuese others of.rick_chasey said:
Spell that out for me as I don’t understand.Dorset_Boy said:
you've largely describe your own views and position on things.rick_chasey said:
You pose the question of what alternatives like you are honestly open to considering alternatives.Stevo_666 said:
I never tried to shaft the Lib Dems, only Labour. Does this mean you accept that the Lib Dems aren't a viable alternative?rick_chasey said:
Mate you literally went out of your way to help ensure there was no viable alternative.Stevo_666 said:
Fair enough.kingstongraham said:
These two points are not controversial.Stevo_666 said:My points were:
1. New Old Labouris still useless
2. The views in Cake Stop are not representative of the wider public view, as your reply just demonstrated.
I voted for Boris once, you know.
No suggestions on viable alternatives for me to vote for?
But your actions show you are genuinely not interested in alternatives as you go out of your way to shut them down.
Therefore your argument is in bad faith.
You would do well in Russia.
“Vote for Putin - all other alternatives are rubbish as they are dead” lol
Hypocrite.
I haven’t joined other parties to vote in unelectable leaders to the benefit of the one I support?
I believe in the value of competition and having better leaders of all parties is beneficial to everyone.
Stevo does not believe this else he wouldn’t have “joined the labour party to save the country” to vote in someone as leader who he felt was unelectable.
Because I put my views strongly does not mean I expect everyone to agree with me.
Treat my posts as a mixture of trying out arguments and venting.
No one got anywhere off the back of praise. Same goes for governments.0 -
Paging Surrey Commuter?bompington said:
Well, we've obviously got at least one tory voter, but I'm not sure there are any Conservatives left.kingstongraham said:I wish someone would let a Tory voter come on here.
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