LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

kingstongraham

If you're ever surprised at the level of incompetence, remember Gavin Williamson is still education secretary.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

rjsterry said:

And now they've told the people who have been guarding the UK Kabul embassy for the last decade don't qualify for evacuation. There really is no crisis this government can't make worse.

It is appalling.

*this is the problem when you elect populists. They are universally bad governors.*

Which country is covering itself in glory? The Dutch and Swedish left without bothering to tell the embassy staff.

I can't vouch for the Swedes, but that's not how it happened in the Dutch embassy.

Dutch relied on the US forces to lift their embassy staff out out and they had to wait their turn, which they did. Granted ,it was last minute enough they did not tell the locals, but it isn't as straight forward as that as the Dutch staff themselves were lifted out of their own beds and told to go then - the Dutch literally do not have the military capability to get their own lot out and it was US forces who were responsible for defending their embassy historically.

At least in the Netherlands they are under no illusions which military they rely upon.

skyblueamateur

kingstongraham said:

If you're ever surprised at the level of incompetence, remember Gavin Williamson is still education secretary.

Good point. Well made.

kingstongraham

TheBigBean said:

...
For what it is worth, I wore conservative clothes in Pakistan, ...

Red trousers and a blazer?

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

rjsterry said:

And now they've told the people who have been guarding the UK Kabul embassy for the last decade don't qualify for evacuation. There really is no crisis this government can't make worse.

It is appalling.

*this is the problem when you elect populists. They are universally bad governors.*

Which country is covering itself in glory? The Dutch and Swedish left without bothering to tell the embassy staff.

I can't vouch for the Swedes, but that's not how it happened in the Dutch embassy.

Dutch relied on the US forces to lift their embassy staff out out and they had to wait their turn, which they did. Granted ,it was last minute enough they did not tell the locals, but it isn't as straight forward as that as the Dutch staff themselves were lifted out of their own beds and told to go then - the Dutch literally do not have the military capability to get their own lot out and it was US forces who were responsible for defending their embassy historically.

At least in the Netherlands they are under no illusions which military they rely upon.

Isn't that what I said? They left without bothering to tell the embassy staff.

Meanwhile the UK paras are offering an airport taxi service for a lot more people than Brits. The UK has also got most of its local staff out hence the news stories about the few that weren't eligible.

Just not sure how you can blame this on populism when it seems pretty much every other country is doing worse. The US has forces to secure the airport, but can't leave to pick people up.

Are you saying the Dutch couldn't fly in some troops to do the airport taxi service, or is it simply the case that they don't want to?

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

rjsterry said:

And now they've told the people who have been guarding the UK Kabul embassy for the last decade don't qualify for evacuation. There really is no crisis this government can't make worse.

It is appalling.

*this is the problem when you elect populists. They are universally bad governors.*

Which country is covering itself in glory? The Dutch and Swedish left without bothering to tell the embassy staff.

I can't vouch for the Swedes, but that's not how it happened in the Dutch embassy.

Dutch relied on the US forces to lift their embassy staff out out and they had to wait their turn, which they did. Granted ,it was last minute enough they did not tell the locals, but it isn't as straight forward as that as the Dutch staff themselves were lifted out of their own beds and told to go then - the Dutch literally do not have the military capability to get their own lot out and it was US forces who were responsible for defending their embassy historically.

At least in the Netherlands they are under no illusions which military they rely upon.

Isn't that what I said? They left without bothering to tell the embassy staff.

Meanwhile the UK paras are offering an airport taxi service for a lot more people than Brits. The UK has also got most of its local staff out hence the news stories about the few that weren't eligible.

Just not sure how you can blame this on populism when it seems pretty much every other country is doing worse. The US has forces to secure the airport, but can't leave to pick people up.

Are you saying the Dutch couldn't fly in some troops to do the airport taxi service, or is it simply the case that they don't want to?

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.

The Dutch military relies pretty much exclusively on the Americans, and they are only there in Afghanistan in any capacity as they want to fulfil their commitment to NATO to be able to rely on the Americans for defence.

So the Dutch staff had no more notice than the locals in their embassy on when they were going.

As in, the yanks turn up in the middle of the night and say "we're going now."

I don't think you quite appreciate how small the Dutch military capability is.

TheBigBean

I can't remember which country it was that suggested its local staff should be grateful, because they had jobs.

TheBigBean

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

...
For what it is worth, I wore conservative clothes in Pakistan, ...

Red trousers and a blazer?

That wasn't the fashion at the time, but no doubt it would have gone down better than lycra.

rick_chasey

Anyway leaving the local interpreters high and dry is pretty detrimental to future engagements too, beyond the moral question.

Interpreters are risking a lot helping out the invaders - the agreement is they will help the invaders on the premise that if it all goes wrong the invaders will look after them.

What is it in for the locals to assist the Brits etc if when things go wrong, they're left to fend for themselves?

I can't imagine the Taliban going soft on people who were actively working with the NATO forces to defeat them.

Pross

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

And now they've told the people who have been guarding the UK Kabul embassy for the last decade don't qualify for evacuation. There really is no crisis this government can't make worse.

Look how we treated the Gurkhas.
It is a long standing tradition of shafting those who help. #shameful

Or the Kurds.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

Anyway leaving the local interpreters high and dry is pretty detrimental to future engagements too, beyond the moral question.

Interpreters are risking a lot helping out the invaders - the agreement is they will help the invaders on the premise that if it all goes wrong the invaders will look after them.

What is it in for the locals to assist the Brits etc if when things go wrong, they're left to fend for themselves?

I can't imagine the Taliban going soft on people who were actively working with the NATO forces to defeat them.

I really don’t think they were “helping out” if we went back next year the daily rate is likely to have risen

rick_chasey

I don't follow - I would be surprised if anyone found to have been working directly with NATO forces to wage war will have any freedoms under the taliban.

This is the same in any other equivalent situation. Collaboration with the enemy is not something the victors shrug off lightly.

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

rjsterry said:

And now they've told the people who have been guarding the UK Kabul embassy for the last decade don't qualify for evacuation. There really is no crisis this government can't make worse.

It is appalling.

*this is the problem when you elect populists. They are universally bad governors.*

Which country is covering itself in glory? The Dutch and Swedish left without bothering to tell the embassy staff.

I can't vouch for the Swedes, but that's not how it happened in the Dutch embassy.

Dutch relied on the US forces to lift their embassy staff out out and they had to wait their turn, which they did. Granted ,it was last minute enough they did not tell the locals, but it isn't as straight forward as that as the Dutch staff themselves were lifted out of their own beds and told to go then - the Dutch literally do not have the military capability to get their own lot out and it was US forces who were responsible for defending their embassy historically.

At least in the Netherlands they are under no illusions which military they rely upon.

Isn't that what I said? They left without bothering to tell the embassy staff.

Meanwhile the UK paras are offering an airport taxi service for a lot more people than Brits. The UK has also got most of its local staff out hence the news stories about the few that weren't eligible.

Just not sure how you can blame this on populism when it seems pretty much every other country is doing worse. The US has forces to secure the airport, but can't leave to pick people up.

Are you saying the Dutch couldn't fly in some troops to do the airport taxi service, or is it simply the case that they don't want to?

Even if they had suitable troops on stand by and a suitable plane to get them there I doubt the Yanks would give them a landing slot.

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

rjsterry said:

And now they've told the people who have been guarding the UK Kabul embassy for the last decade don't qualify for evacuation. There really is no crisis this government can't make worse.

It is appalling.

*this is the problem when you elect populists. They are universally bad governors.*

Which country is covering itself in glory? The Dutch and Swedish left without bothering to tell the embassy staff.

I can't vouch for the Swedes, but that's not how it happened in the Dutch embassy.

Dutch relied on the US forces to lift their embassy staff out out and they had to wait their turn, which they did. Granted ,it was last minute enough they did not tell the locals, but it isn't as straight forward as that as the Dutch staff themselves were lifted out of their own beds and told to go then - the Dutch literally do not have the military capability to get their own lot out and it was US forces who were responsible for defending their embassy historically.

At least in the Netherlands they are under no illusions which military they rely upon.

Isn't that what I said? They left without bothering to tell the embassy staff.

Meanwhile the UK paras are offering an airport taxi service for a lot more people than Brits. The UK has also got most of its local staff out hence the news stories about the few that weren't eligible.

Just not sure how you can blame this on populism when it seems pretty much every other country is doing worse. The US has forces to secure the airport, but can't leave to pick people up.

Are you saying the Dutch couldn't fly in some troops to do the airport taxi service, or is it simply the case that they don't want to?

Even if they had suitable troops on stand by and a suitable plane to get them there I doubt the Yanks would give them a landing slot.

A quick google reveals that after the shambolic departure, they have flown in 60 or so military staff who are doing airport runs and some consular staff to sort out visas.

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

I don't follow - I would be surprised if anyone found to have been working directly with NATO forces to wage war will have any freedoms under the taliban.

This is the same in any other equivalent situation. Collaboration with the enemy is not something the victors shrug off lightly.

As they are currently doing door to door searches for those people you are not wrong.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

I don't follow - I would be surprised if anyone found to have been working directly with NATO forces to wage war will have any freedoms under the taliban.

This is the same in any other equivalent situation. Collaboration with the enemy is not something the victors shrug off lightly.

agreed, my point was that they were doing it for $$$ not a sense of civic duty so this episode will just mean more $$$$$$ next time

rick_chasey

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/20/dominic-raab-foreign-secretary-global-britain

Breaking my own rule about posting from comment sections in papers, but it's Mariana Hyde savaging Raab and it's excellent.

Now his officials are leaking wildly unflattering assessments of his commitment to one of the great offices of state, saying – among so much else – that the foreign secretary “refused to be contacted on basically anything”.

I think you’ll agree this means so much more coming from a man who once co-authored a book bemoaning British laziness, claiming that British workers were “among the worst idlers in the world”.

tailwindhome

rick_chasey said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/20/dominic-raab-foreign-secretary-global-britain

Breaking my own rule about posting from comment sections in papers, but it's Mariana Hyde savaging Raab and it's excellent.

Now his officials are leaking wildly unflattering assessments of his commitment to one of the great offices of state, saying – among so much else – that the foreign secretary “refused to be contacted on basically anything”.

I think you’ll agree this means so much more coming from a man who once co-authored a book bemoaning British laziness, claiming that British workers were “among the worst idlers in the world”.

Her previous description of Raab was incredible

'the look of Dominic Raab? For reference, that look is “white-collar guy who’s never done anything wrong in his life before this. You have to believe him, he was just trying to keep her quiet – OH MY GOD OH MY GOD THERE’S SO MUCH BLOOD'

morstar

So, Bojos blind faith in his cabinet regardless of ability…

Is he just loyal? Seems unlikely given his track record in relationships.

Are they the only ones he trusts?

Is the party totally devoid of talent? It’s definitely been thinned but surely there is some talent amongst the crop.

Is he scared of employing talent?

Genuinely interested as they do seem an incredibly incompetent shower of self important idiots.

rick_chasey

morstar said:

So, Bojos blind faith in his cabinet regardless of ability…

Is he just loyal? Seems unlikely given his track record in relationships.

Are they the only ones he trusts?

Is the party totally devoid of talent? It’s definitely been thinned but surely there is some talent amongst the crop.

Is he scared of employing talent?

Genuinely interested as they do seem an incredibly incompetent shower of self important idiots.

I suspect he feels none of this matters.

briantrumpet

morstar said:

So, Bojos blind faith in his cabinet regardless of ability…

Is he just loyal? Seems unlikely given his track record in relationships.

Are they the only ones he trusts?

Is the party totally devoid of talent? It’s definitely been thinned but surely there is some talent amongst the crop.

Is he scared of employing talent?

Genuinely interested as they do seem an incredibly incompetent shower of self important idiots.

The only one who seems competent is Sunak - maybe even Johnson realises that having an incompetent Chancellor still wouldn't make Johnson look competent.

morstar

rick_chasey said:

morstar said:

So, Bojos blind faith in his cabinet regardless of ability…

Is he just loyal? Seems unlikely given his track record in relationships.

Are they the only ones he trusts?

Is the party totally devoid of talent? It’s definitely been thinned but surely there is some talent amongst the crop.

Is he scared of employing talent?

Genuinely interested as they do seem an incredibly incompetent shower of self important idiots.

I suspect he feels none of this matters.

Probably fair. So what’s his motivation for doing the job if he doesn’t care what his government achieves?

Status and after dinner circuit?

morstar

briantrumpet said:

morstar said:

So, Bojos blind faith in his cabinet regardless of ability…

Is he just loyal? Seems unlikely given his track record in relationships.

Are they the only ones he trusts?

Is the party totally devoid of talent? It’s definitely been thinned but surely there is some talent amongst the crop.

Is he scared of employing talent?

Genuinely interested as they do seem an incredibly incompetent shower of self important idiots.

The only one who seems competent is Sunak - maybe even Johnson realises that having an incompetent Chancellor still wouldn't make Johnson look competent.

It’s a fine balance isn’t it if you are deliberately suppressing talent to preserve your empire. I wonder how good Sunak would actually appear in a strong government though.

Is he simply the one eyed man?

He hasn’t had major calamities but he has had some odd opinions and is totally backing the wrong horse on remote working.

Jezyboy

tailwindhome said:

rick_chasey said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/20/dominic-raab-foreign-secretary-global-britain

Breaking my own rule about posting from comment sections in papers, but it's Mariana Hyde savaging Raab and it's excellent.

Now his officials are leaking wildly unflattering assessments of his commitment to one of the great offices of state, saying – among so much else – that the foreign secretary “refused to be contacted on basically anything”.

I think you’ll agree this means so much more coming from a man who once co-authored a book bemoaning British laziness, claiming that British workers were “among the worst idlers in the world”.

Her previous description of Raab was incredible

'the look of Dominic Raab? For reference, that look is “white-collar guy who’s never done anything wrong in his life before this. You have to believe him, he was just trying to keep her quiet – OH MY GOD OH MY GOD THERE’S SO MUCH BLOOD'

I don't know what to think about Rabb. His cv suggests to me he is not a complete idiot (more so than Boris).

Yet his performance in Cabinet just seems average.

elbowloh

I think the problem with Raab is that he's just simply a massive c#nt with no empathy.

orraloon

Given the entry qualification for a cabinet post was sign up to Brexshit and exhibit a willingness to suck Spaffer's richard then who is surprised by the level of (in)competence?

briantrumpet

elbowloh said:

I think the problem with Raab is that he's just simply a massive c#nt with no empathy.

elbowloh said:

I think the problem with Raab is that he's just simply a massive c#nt with no empathy.

Looking at employment prospects in Johnson's government, these seem to be essential attributes.

Stevo_666

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

I take it you think Raab is a great worker and all-round good chap then?

elbowloh

Stevo_666 said:

The emperor fails and gets defeated.