LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

Pross

I don’t get why they are all happy to chain themselves to a sinking ship. Surely it’s a perfect opportunity to be a bit rebellious, call a turd a turd and then position yourself as the next leader with a reasonable claim to distancing yourself from the shitshow?

pblakeney

briantrumpet said:

...
I genuinely thought that Hunt was better than this.
...

Aw, bless.
The NHS have a name for him, Chunt.

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

Jezyboy said:

TheBigBean said:

Jezyboy said:

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

Jezyboy said:

First.Aspect said:

Jezyboy said:

Raising the smoking age every year...

Just silly

Why is it silly?

First.Aspect said:

Jezyboy said:

Raising the smoking age every year...

Just silly

Why is it silly?

Because I think grown adults should be allowed to smoke if they want to.

Why? Has been known for 75 years that it leads to premature death and a myriad health problems in addition that incur costs for the NHS. What is wrong with public health policy that reduces those harms?

The harms of excessive alcohol consumption have been known since brewing beer was invented. We've tried prohibition and it was a less than roaring success.

It's arbitrary already isn't it.

I don't think it should be banned, just taxed to bugg3ry. Don't see any harm in raising the legal age to 21 or 25 or something like that, either.

You can drive a car, start a family, take out a mortgage, etc, etc but you're not old enough to smoke?

I loathe smoking, but the last thing we need is more authoritarian intervention.

Smoking affects other people though. Even if you ignore the passive smoke, there is a lot of litter, and people have managed to justify a ban on plastic straws, so banning smoking doesn't seem outrageous.

It's also rather costly treating heart disease, strokes and cancer.

Fine. Ban them outright. Or don't. But let's not pretend that will solve the problem or that treating adults like children will end well.

The alternative to plastic straws seem to work pretty well. Some of the alternatives to cigarettes have much worse waste. Obviously the health impacts of smoking are awful. Although the wider societal impacts of alcohol seem a lot worse.

(I'd be in favour of heavily taxing single use plastic straws and cigarettes instead of an outright ban though)

Personally I've enjoyed a cigar every now and then, and don't mind shisha, although it's been ages since I've partaken.

Nothing works as well as a plastic straw.

I have re-usable plastic straws.

They work as well as a plastic straw.

Except for the difficulty cleaning them. Best I have found are glass ones, but they break.

We have a couple of stainless steel ones and a little brush for cleaning them. 🤭

Tried those, but it is hard to see if they are dirty. That's why the glass ones are good.

Hence the brush. Should be fine unless you are drinking a lot of luxury milkshake.

The glass ones have a brush, but you can see what you are cleaning which you can't on the stainless steel ones. I've tried them all.

rjsterry

Pross said:

I don’t get why they are all happy to chain themselves to a sinking ship. Surely it’s a perfect opportunity to be a bit rebellious, call a censored a censored and then position yourself as the next leader with a reasonable claim to distancing yourself from the shitshow?

Anyone with a brain can see that the ship has sailed and it's now just a Truss/Farage fan club. Andy Street is hanging on out of a sense of responsibility to the West Midlands but the party really don't deserve him.

briantrumpet

pblakeney said:

briantrumpet said:

...
I genuinely thought that Hunt was better than this.
...

Aw, bless.
The NHS have a name for him, Chunt.

But even if you didn't like his politics and decisions, up till now I'd not thought of him as a moron. And it seems like Mordaunt's sword qualifications and calling out Bridgen's lunacy (notwithstanding her other questionable political views) have been expunged by a quite extraordinarily bizarre speech.

It's just been the most weird few days, to see a party that's been such a central part of mainstream political history fly off into the right-wings of downright deceit and conspiracy theory tinfoil hattery. I suppose I just have to keep my faith that the British electorate won't fall for it, and that Starmer isn't senile or nuts. Boring will do.

briantrumpet

I don't think Harwood is quite making the point he thinks he is.

https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1709660502173888553

pblakeney

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

briantrumpet said:

...
I genuinely thought that Hunt was better than this.
...

Aw, bless.
The NHS have a name for him, Chunt.

But even if you didn't like his politics and decisions, up till now I'd not thought of him as a moron....

I can't be bothered digging through the past to bring up examples but for me he exemplifies someone doing what is required to get where he is without being overly intelligent.

briantrumpet

pblakeney said:

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

briantrumpet said:

...
I genuinely thought that Hunt was better than this.
...

Aw, bless.
The NHS have a name for him, Chunt.

But even if you didn't like his politics and decisions, up till now I'd not thought of him as a moron....

I can't be bothered digging through the past to bring up examples but for me he exemplifies someone doing what is required to get where he is without being overly intelligent.

Even 'moderately intelligent' would put him quite a way up the league table, as things stand.

pblakeney

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

briantrumpet said:

...
I genuinely thought that Hunt was better than this.
...

Aw, bless.
The NHS have a name for him, Chunt.

But even if you didn't like his politics and decisions, up till now I'd not thought of him as a moron....

I can't be bothered digging through the past to bring up examples but for me he exemplifies someone doing what is required to get where he is without being overly intelligent.

Even 'moderately intelligent' would put him quite a way up the league table, as things stand.

That is exactly why he is where he is. "Moderately" is a compliment imo.
He'd have been kicked into the long grass long ago in previous cabinets.

rjsterry

More HS2bollox emerging. In the document issued to justify the cancellation, they've omitted all the Elizabeth line passengers so that they can draw a graph showing overall train passenger numbers have fallen. That's around 170million passenger journeys per year they've omitted.

kingstongraham

Apparently there's a nice chunk of ex-hs2 investment money now going to road maintenance in the south east, so that's nice.

briantrumpet

kingstongraham said:

Apparently there's a nice chunk of ex-hs2 investment money now going to road maintenance in the south east, so that's nice.

Levelling up potholes.

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

More HS2bollox emerging. In the document issued to justify the cancellation, they've omitted all the Elizabeth line passengers so that they can draw a graph showing overall train passenger numbers have fallen.

Perhaps they want break the rail system too, given their success with the NHS, the court system, planning, schools, etc. It's quite a record of wrecking.

rjsterry

... and fixing potholes in the South East and the South West is listed as a key part of Northern Network.

pblakeney

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

More HS2bollox emerging. In the document issued to justify the cancellation, they've omitted all the Elizabeth line passengers so that they can draw a graph showing overall train passenger numbers have fallen.

Perhaps they want break the rail system too, given their success with the NHS, the court system, planning, schools, etc. It's quite a record of wrecking.

There's a thing. This has been a successful conference.
Nobody is talking about broken buildings anymore.

rick_chasey

pblakeney said:

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

More HS2bollox emerging. In the document issued to justify the cancellation, they've omitted all the Elizabeth line passengers so that they can draw a graph showing overall train passenger numbers have fallen.

Perhaps they want break the rail system too, given their success with the NHS, the court system, planning, schools, etc. It's quite a record of wrecking.

There's a thing. This has been a successful conference.
Nobody is talking about broken buildings anymore.

I suspect Labour may mention it once or twice….

Pross

BBC laying into the Transport Secretary this morning. Picking up that Sunak said that no decision had been made but had already made a video about the cancellation. They then pointed out that it was people like the Transport Secretary has been in Government nearly 20 years including Cabinet positions so is one of those Sunak has criticised for not making big decisions.

He was left trying to defend the indefensible and deflect to the ‘big decision’ on smoking plus a half-hearted attempt at a dig a train Unions as his reason for using a car to get to and from the conference.

Jezyboy

I think the thing I find strange about leaking the HS2 decision, is that surely you do it to judge the reaction and then act appropriately.

The decision (rightly or wrongly) was widely panned, but rather than take the opportunity to make a u turn, without ever having to have officially cancelled it, they stick to cancelling it but spend all week pretending they won't.

All this with absolutely no parliamentary scrutiny.

Pross

I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised by HS2 being cancelled. This Government has already reduced the length of the South Wales electrification scheme (from memory on the same day Crossrail 2 was confirmed) and then Crossrail 2 although at least that was done before they started significant work. I can’t remember what the current situation is with new nuclear power stations as it changes so much.

rjsterry

“What we need to do is stop being so shit and then people will see how shit the Labour party is. But we need to stop being so shit first” - one cabinet minister’s blunt assessment of the state of the Tory party.

Hard to argue with this. All Labour need to do at the moment is stand there with their hands in their pockets and smile at ministers trying to justify their warnings of "meat tax".

rick_chasey

Labour don’t want to do a Neil kinnock in their conference

MidlandsGrimpeur2

“What we need to do is stop being so censored and then people will see how censored the Labour party is. But we need to stop being so censored first” - one cabinet minister’s blunt assessment of the state of the Tory party.

The major problem with this is that they purged all the half decent Tory MP's in pursuit of Brexit which left a bunch of talentless halfwits. For them to stop being sh!t is impossible. They would need an entirely new set of MP's.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

Genuine question for those with more knowledge of this than me. What happens to all the construction sites already well underway for the cancelled section of HS2 (of which there are several where I regularly cycle through Staffordshire)?

Do they literally just down tools and everything gets left there in its current state?

pblakeney

rjsterry said:

“What we need to do is stop being so censored and then people will see how censored the Labour party is. But we need to stop being so censored first” - one cabinet minister’s blunt assessment of the state of the Tory party.

Hard to argue with this. All Labour need to do at the moment is stand there with their hands in their pockets and smile at ministers trying to justify their warnings of "meat tax".

Can't disagree with this. Labour have done nothing good since the expulsion of Corbyn. They find themselves in their current position simply because the tories are so bad.

pblakeney

Re Sunak's speech, how on earth can voting for the party that has been in charge for the past 13 years be a vote for change?

MidlandsGrimpeur2

I would agree with the above, but I have said this before, I think it has been a deliberate tactic by Starmer. He has sat back knowing the Tories would implode and Labour would be left as the only viable alternative.

He hasn't rocked the boat because he didn't need to. I have a strong suspicion that if and when Labour get in, Starmer will be a bit more forceful than people think he is.

Jezyboy

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

Genuine question for those with more knowledge of this than me. What happens to all the construction sites already well underway for the cancelled section of HS2 (of which there are several where I regularly cycle through Staffordshire)?

Do they literally just down tools and everything gets left there in its current state?

I'm pretty sure they are part of phase 1. They connect it to the current mainline north of Birmingham

rick_chasey

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

I would agree with the above, but I have said this before, I think it has been a deliberate tactic by Starmer. He has sat back knowing the Tories would implode and Labour would be left as the only viable alternative.

He hasn't rocked the boat because he didn't need to. I have a strong suspicion that if and when Labour get in, Starmer will be a bit more forceful than people think he is.

Shadow cabinet is fairly Blairite.

Real question is are they ready to execute as much as they can right out of the gate, as within a year or two I can imagine the the far left getting feisty ala the Tories.

briantrumpet

rick_chasey said:

Labour don’t want to do a Neil kinnock in their conference

I assume you mean the one of assuming the election was won, rather than the one attacking Liverpool City Council and the far left. The latter was electric.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

Real question is are they ready to execute as much as they can right out of the gate, as within a year or two I can imagine the the far left getting feisty ala the Tories.

This is the kind of this I am referring to, I think he will start pushing big policy decisions off the bat rather than waiting for any bedding in period and try to cut off any rebellion from the outset.