Windrush crisis

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  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Should those on "working holiday" visas be hired as teachers? The name suggests the visa is more suited to more temporary work.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,773
    I read the above story as being that we have a shortage of teachers but the authorities aren't that fussed about there being a shortage since the schools their children go to won't have a shortage.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    PBlakeney wrote:
    I read the above story as being that we have a shortage of teachers but the authorities aren't that fussed about there being a shortage since the schools their children go to won't have a shortage.

    I read it as British jobs for british people - we just need to re-skill the unemployed or use prisoners
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,773
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    I read the above story as being that we have a shortage of teachers but the authorities aren't that fussed about there being a shortage since the schools their children go to won't have a shortage.

    I read it as British jobs for british people - we just need to re-skill the unemployed or use prisoners
    Same thing.
    As long as “those” teachers don’t teach at “our” school.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    I read the above story as being that we have a shortage of teachers but the authorities aren't that fussed about there being a shortage since the schools their children go to won't have a shortage.

    I read it as British jobs for british people - we just need to re-skill the unemployed or use prisoners
    Same thing.
    As long as “those” teachers don’t teach at “our” school.

    fair point

    a (very minor) historian recently suggested to me that evacuating children in WW2 could only have been conceived of by a bunch of men who had been sent to boarding school at a very young age.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,691
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    I read the above story as being that we have a shortage of teachers but the authorities aren't that fussed about there being a shortage since the schools their children go to won't have a shortage.

    I read it as British jobs for british people - we just need to re-skill the unemployed or use prisoners
    Same thing.
    As long as “those” teachers don’t teach at “our” school.

    fair point

    a (very minor) historian recently suggested to me that evacuating children in WW2 could only have been conceived of by a bunch of men who had been sent to boarding school at a very young age.

    With my mother being foreign and so immune to the social connotations of boarding school, I grew up thinking broadly the same.
    _
  • FishFish
    FishFish Posts: 2,152
    Surrey Commuter wrote:

    a (very minor) historian recently suggested to me that evacuating children in WW2 could only have been conceived of by a bunch of men who had been sent to boarding school at a very young age.


    I think that the one event which decided the evacuation of children was the bombing of a community centre in E London which was full of people after the same street was bombed the night before. It was also the event which put into place a series of events which caused the NHS.

    Perhaps you could suggest to your informant that WW2 was taken quite seriously during the war.
    ...take your pickelf on your holibobs.... :D

    jeez :roll:
  • FishFish
    FishFish Posts: 2,152
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    I read the above story as being that we have a shortage of teachers but the authorities aren't that fussed about there being a shortage since the schools their children go to won't have a shortage.

    I read it as British jobs for british people - we just need to re-skill the unemployed or use prisoners


    It was tried by using former servicemen. A failure. You need trained and motivated teachers - but you can get them from abroad. No less foreign than the pupils in the classroom.

    I don't really see the standard of education demonstrated by some or most of the participants in this forum to be a benchmark to measure against. Idiocy perhaps.
    ...take your pickelf on your holibobs.... :D

    jeez :roll:
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    FishFish wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:

    a (very minor) historian recently suggested to me that evacuating children in WW2 could only have been conceived of by a bunch of men who had been sent to boarding school at a very young age.


    I think that the one event which decided the evacuation of children was the bombing of a community centre in E London which was full of people after the same street was bombed the night before. It was also the event which put into place a series of events which caused the NHS.

    Perhaps you could suggest to your informant that WW2 was taken quite seriously during the war.

    You are missing my point, either deliberately or through a failure to read the direction of the thread and understand the context of my post.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,773
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    FishFish wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:

    a (very minor) historian recently suggested to me that evacuating children in WW2 could only have been conceived of by a bunch of men who had been sent to boarding school at a very young age.


    I think that the one event which decided the evacuation of children was the bombing of a community centre in E London which was full of people after the same street was bombed the night before. It was also the event which put into place a series of events which caused the NHS.

    Perhaps you could suggest to your informant that WW2 was taken quite seriously during the war.

    You are missing my point, either deliberately or through a failure to read the direction of the thread and understand the context of my post.
    Google translate doesn't do context.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • FishFish
    FishFish Posts: 2,152
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    FishFish wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:

    a (very minor) historian recently suggested to me that evacuating children in WW2 could only have been conceived of by a bunch of men who had been sent to boarding school at a very young age.


    I think that the one event which decided the evacuation of children was the bombing of a community centre in E London which was full of people after the same street was bombed the night before. It was also the event which put into place a series of events which caused the NHS.

    Perhaps you could suggest to your informant that WW2 was taken quite seriously during the war.

    You are missing my point, either deliberately or through a failure to read the direction of the thread and understand the context of my post.

    Seems to me that you were promoting a rumour relating to process of evacuation and trying to justify it. Seems to me that I was refuting it and pointing out that you are talking a load of BLX.
    ...take your pickelf on your holibobs.... :D

    jeez :roll:
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    FishFish wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    FishFish wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:

    a (very minor) historian recently suggested to me that evacuating children in WW2 could only have been conceived of by a bunch of men who had been sent to boarding school at a very young age.


    I think that the one event which decided the evacuation of children was the bombing of a community centre in E London which was full of people after the same street was bombed the night before. It was also the event which put into place a series of events which caused the NHS.

    Perhaps you could suggest to your informant that WW2 was taken quite seriously during the war.

    You are missing my point, either deliberately or through a failure to read the direction of the thread and understand the context of my post.

    Seems to me that you were promoting a rumour relating to process of evacuation and trying to justify it. Seems to me that I was refuting it and pointing out that you are talking a load of BLX.
    Strange that someone with the highest academic qualifications known to mankind can't tell the difference between a rumour and an opinion.
  • robert88
    robert88 Posts: 2,696
    edited June 2018
    In context, during the thirties children were fleeing to Britain from the Spanish civil war and under kindertransporten schemes. Going to boarding school wasn't necessary to grasp the concept of evacuation.

    Such refugees were not welcomed by many, notably right wing organisations and media, even though they were only children.

    Ironically, during WW2 propaganda minister Goebbels blamed saturation bombing of German cities on the Jews, claiming it was revenge for Germany's treatment of them.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,773
    That’s a rather strange word for the Spanish to use.
    Could be German. An insight to what was to come?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • robert88
    robert88 Posts: 2,696
    PBlakeney wrote:
    That’s a rather strange word for the Spanish to use.
    Could be German. An insight to what was to come?

    You are right it is German and refers to the organised evacuation of children from Germany. They were mostly Jewish and it was suggested by critics that it would be better if they were sent to Palestine. Jews were leaving Germany before organised schemes were started - e.g. Albert Einstein was denied British citizenship and successfully moved to the US where he was a critic and target of McCarthyism.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,691
    FishFish wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    I read the above story as being that we have a shortage of teachers but the authorities aren't that fussed about there being a shortage since the schools their children go to won't have a shortage.

    I read it as British jobs for british people - we just need to re-skill the unemployed or use prisoners


    It was tried by using former servicemen. A failure. You need trained and motivated teachers - but you can get them from abroad. No less foreign than the pupils in the classroom.

    I don't really see the standard of education demonstrated by some or most of the participants in this forum to be a benchmark to measure against. Idiocy perhaps.


    viewtopic.php?f=40088&t=13040040&p=20355719&hilit=part+III#p20355719

    FishFish wrote:
    Never done that and am currently head of audit for a dual listed UK Company.

    I've also done my Part III 's as opposed to making pretentious and excruciatingly inept juvenile allusions to Natural Phillosophy - for clarity the ones that you make.
    _
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    Robert88 wrote:
    In context, during the thirties children were fleeing to Britain from the Spanish civil war and under kindertransporten schemes. Going to boarding school wasn't necessary to grasp the concept of evacuation.

    Such refugees were not welcomed by many, notably right wing organisations and media, even though they were only children.

    Ironically, during WW2 propaganda minister Goebbels blamed saturation bombing of German cities on the Jews, claiming it was revenge for Germany's treatment of them.

    Can you give a source for a Spanish Kindertransporten as a quick Google throws up orphaned homeless Basque children being accepted as evacuees.

    That is very different from not considering the emotional and psycological impact of separating young children from their homes and families
  • FishFish
    FishFish Posts: 2,152
    Well is that not the same thing?
    ...take your pickelf on your holibobs.... :D

    jeez :roll:
  • robert88
    robert88 Posts: 2,696
    SC your stupidity is making me agree with FIshfish. Kindly stop it.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    Robert88 wrote:
    SC your stupidity is making me agree with FIshfish. Kindly stop it.

    which bit don't you understand?

    "source for Spanish Kindertransporten" - by which I mean can you post a sensible link to verify this

    "orphan" - you do know this is a child whose parents have died? look here is a source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphan

    suggesting that removing children from their parents was not fully thought out really is not very controversial
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Robert88 wrote:
    SC your stupidity is making me agree with FIshfish. Kindly stop it.

    which bit don't you understand?

    "source for Spanish Kindertransporten" - by which I mean can you post a sensible link to verify this

    "orphan" - you do know this is a child whose parents have died? look here is a source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphan

    suggesting that removing children from their parents was not fully thought out really is not very controversial
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=spanish+civil+war+ ... to+Britain

    There's your link, or you could try https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35532286, but for goodness' sake please realise that nobody mentioned "Spanish Kindertransporten": The original was "children were fleeing to Britain from the Spanish civil AND under kindertransporten schemes"
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,663
    Wow. I know this place has form for diverting off topic, but this is really pushing it. How are WW2 child evacuation and refugees in any way related to Windrush and current immigration policy?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,620
    rjsterry wrote:
    Wow. I know this place has form for diverting off topic, but this is really pushing it. How are WW2 child evacuation and refugees in any way related to Windrush and current immigration policy?

    I think everyone agrees that the windrush scandal is a scandal, so there is not much to argue about. People need something to argue about.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,691
    I’m surprised the DNA bit didn’t get more bites.
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,663
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    I’m surprised the DNA bit didn’t get more bites.

    I didn't see a report but it's clearly drivel. How on earth could a DNA test establish when a person arrived in this country and under what circumstances?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,686
    rjsterry wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    I’m surprised the DNA bit didn’t get more bites.

    I didn't see a report but it's clearly drivel. How on earth could a DNA test establish when a person arrived in this country and under what circumstances?
    Yebbut it's because the gummint add tracer chemicals into drinking water and these markers stay in your body and get taken up into your DNA and they change it every year so they can tell who has been here when and you heard it here first, wake up sheeple.

    ...just standing in for dearly departed Manc33....

    Oh yeah, and these 4G LED lampposts can read your DNA and report it to GCHQ...
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,620
    Circumstances when a DNA test may be requested

    https://www.gov.uk/get-dna-test
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,691
    rjsterry wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    I’m surprised the DNA bit didn’t get more bites.

    I didn't see a report but it's clearly drivel. How on earth could a DNA test establish when a person arrived in this country and under what circumstances?

    To prove you are the child of one with no paperwork
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,663
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    I’m surprised the DNA bit didn’t get more bites.

    I didn't see a report but it's clearly drivel. How on earth could a DNA test establish when a person arrived in this country and under what circumstances?

    To prove you are the child of one with no paperwork

    I can't see how that fits into proving or disproving either the parent or child's right to remain.
    DNA hadn't been discovered when the Windrush arrived in '48.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,620
    rjsterry wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    I’m surprised the DNA bit didn’t get more bites.

    I didn't see a report but it's clearly drivel. How on earth could a DNA test establish when a person arrived in this country and under what circumstances?

    To prove you are the child of one with no paperwork

    I can't see how that fits into proving or disproving either the parent or child's right to remain.
    DNA hadn't been discovered when the Windrush arrived in '48.

    I'm guessing if the parent was Windrush eligible, but the child was born abroad and no birth certificate exists then it may be relevant.

    Provided there are adequate protections around destruction of DNA records afterwards, I don't think it is that bad. Certainly, I can imagine some circumstances where I would prefer that to obtaining a notarised, translated copy of a document the government doesn't think is original to begin with or a document that is only available in person in an obscure location. So, as option it could be preferable, clearly as an obligation it is not.

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