Windrush crisis

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Comments

  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    PBlakeney wrote:
    So simply deport 10% of that number who happen to be legal?
    Remember May’s words, we can deport first and hear appeals later.

    You create a hostile environment which will send the appropriate message to frontline workers. Coupled with a bonus for getting your deportations up you are a step closer to net migration in the tens of thousands.

    In fairness to the Tories they were very open (boastful?) about it.

    As I say people are hesitant about the details not the actual policy
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,462
    Targets encourage behaviors which achieve targets
    These behaviors may not be desirable
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Targets encourage behaviors which achieve targets
    These behaviors may not be desirable

    To you and I maybe... I am sure there a millions of Coopster out there perfectly happy
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,829
    FishFish wrote:
    The 'documentation' that you so freely refer to HAS to be a record held in the Home office - NOT a stamp in a passport. Persuasive evidence includes a stamp in a passport or - as is inevitable in the case of residency - a letter which follows from the record in the Home Office.

    You are wrong.

    Stamp in a passport? What are you on about? We're talking about people who arrived and settled in this country (legally) as children in the '50s and '60s. As children they wouldn't have had or needed passports, (only embarkation cards, which were destroyed). That the current rules don't account for such people is a fault in the drafting of those rules.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,462
    Targets encourage behaviors which achieve targets
    These behaviors may not be desirable

    To you and I maybe... I am sure there a millions of Coopster out there perfectly happy

    I have to believe there aren't millions of them.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,829
    Targets encourage behaviors which achieve targets
    These behaviors may not be desirable

    To you and I maybe... I am sure there a millions of Coopster out there perfectly happy

    I have to believe there aren't millions of them.

    That is in deed a horrific thought. I think there may have been a lot of people who supported the policy without giving much thought to what that would result in.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,829
    I wonder if Abramovich will be threatened with deportation under section 322(5) of the Immigration Act now that his visa has run out.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... -a-uk-visa
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rjsterry wrote:
    I wonder if Abramovich will be threatened with deportation under section 322(5) of the Immigration Act now that his visa has run out.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... -a-uk-visa

    nope because he is not in the country.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,841
    rjsterry wrote:
    I wonder if Abramovich will be threatened with deportation under section 322(5) of the Immigration Act now that his visa has run out.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... -a-uk-visa

    nope because he is not in the country.
    And hasn't been since his visa ran out.

    Centre leftie wishful thinking?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • imafatman
    imafatman Posts: 351
    I'm all for having a sensible immigration policy that keeps undesirables out however the current system is an absolute shambles, it is at best a heartless and useless bureaucratic machine, and at worst it's intentionally designed to create an extremely hostile and unforgiving system in which they lie and bend the rules to reject as many people as possible regardless of the consequences.

    Theresa May has a lot to answer for. It was under her department that a lot of this started and now she's PM she's somehow managed to avoid taking the heat for this but I truly hope she faces justice for the pain and suffering that has been caused.

    Open for business? As if. More like "fuck off you dirty p*** scum we don't want you, we don't want your skilled labour, fuck off you bl*** b**** who have lived here for all your lives, fuck your 40 years service to this country, fuck your families, fuck you all. Get the fuck out."

    That's the message that is being broadcast under Theresa May's Britain. And I say this as a white Englishman who's lived here all my life who was once (mistakenly) proud to be British and is now deeply ashamed of the way we have treated people.

    Sorry for the emotive language but this mess has really gotten me fired up. Politics in this country is absolutely farked.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    A couple Astana riders were denied visas last minute and so missed out on the TdY this year; Astana rode with two fewer riders as a result.
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    imafatman wrote:
    I'm all for having a sensible immigration policy that keeps undesirables out however the current system is an absolute shambles, it is at best a heartless and useless bureaucratic machine, and at worst it's intentionally designed to create an extremely hostile and unforgiving system in which they lie and bend the rules to reject as many people as possible regardless of the consequences.

    Theresa May has a lot to answer for. It was under her department that a lot of this started and now she's PM she's somehow managed to avoid taking the heat for this but I truly hope she faces justice for the pain and suffering that has been caused.

    Open for business? As if. More like "fark off you dirty p*** scum we don't want you, we don't want your skilled labour, fark off you bl*** b**** who have lived here for all your lives, fark your 40 years service to this country, fark your families, fark you all. Get the fark out."

    That's the message that is being broadcast under Theresa May's Britain. And I say this as a white Englishman who's lived here all my life who was once (mistakenly) proud to be British and is now deeply ashamed of the way we have treated people.

    Sorry for the emotive language but this mess has really gotten me fired up. Politics in this country is absolutely farked.

    The thing that's most surprised me about this story, is that after the election pledge of reducing immigration down to 100,000 is that the Tories actually tried to deliver on the promise.

    I thought it was just one of those election/vote winning lies that politicians tell, like the extra money for the NHS after leaving the EU, or the scrapping of Tuition fees, but it seems that the Tories have a plan in place to sharply reduce immigration, in spite of what other Govt departments might wish.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • imafatman
    imafatman Posts: 351
    Jez mon wrote:
    The thing that's most surprised me about this story, is that after the election pledge of reducing immigration down to 100,000 is that the Tories actually tried to deliver on the promise.

    Presumably because they think this is exactly what a large chunk of the electorate want? Which if true is a sad indictment of what this country has/will become. It's so shortsighted and moronic.

    The crazy thing is that net figure includes international students, who pay huge fee's for the privilege at studying at our world renowned academic institutions. Something in the region of £15-40k _per year_ depending in University fee's, plus fark knows how much in living costs which they spend here in the UK. And then at the end of it most of them go back home.

    Why are we including these people in net immigration figures? It appears that TM simply has a problem with foreigners, regardless of the net benefit that they bring to this country, regardless of the fact that most of them will go home at the end of their studies, they apparently still count as immigrants coming to this country and needed to be hounded out.

    TM is in complete denial if she thinks her "Global Britain" policy is actually achievable when she seems hell bent on kicking foreigners as much as possible.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    arguably Migration Watch are a bunch of Nazis but I believe this is a yougov poll
    https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/361

    76% want immigration reduced
    72% thought that the government was right to impose a numerical limit on immigration each year
    62% wanted to see the UK population decrease
    49% of the public say that immigration will influence how they vote in the upcoming referendum on Britain's membership of the EU, making it the issue, by some distance, most likely to affect how people will vote

    that would suggest that a lot of people back TM's policy but don't like the detail or are silently cheering her on
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,829
    arguably Migration Watch are a bunch of Nazis but I believe this is a yougov poll
    https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/361

    76% want immigration reduced
    72% thought that the government was right to impose a numerical limit on immigration each year
    62% wanted to see the UK population decrease
    49% of the public say that immigration will influence how they vote in the upcoming referendum on Britain's membership of the EU, making it the issue, by some distance, most likely to affect how people will vote

    that would suggest that a lot of people back TM's policy but don't like the detail or are silently cheering her on

    Generalities versus specifics; I think that's mostly just human nature. All those 76% are quite happy with the general idea of reducing immigration until they realise it's their GP that can't renew their visa.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rjsterry wrote:
    arguably Migration Watch are a bunch of Nazis but I believe this is a yougov poll
    https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/361

    76% want immigration reduced
    72% thought that the government was right to impose a numerical limit on immigration each year
    62% wanted to see the UK population decrease
    49% of the public say that immigration will influence how they vote in the upcoming referendum on Britain's membership of the EU, making it the issue, by some distance, most likely to affect how people will vote

    that would suggest that a lot of people back TM's policy but don't like the detail or are silently cheering her on

    Generalities versus specifics; I think that's mostly just human nature. All those 76% are quite happy with the general idea of reducing immigration until they realise it's their GP that can't renew their visa.

    absolutely - they are all up for austerity until their council wants £4 to dispose of a rubble bag of tiles
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,829
    See also: we need more housing, but not in my village.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • drhaggis
    drhaggis Posts: 1,150
    imafatman wrote:
    Open for business? As if. More like "fark off you dirty p*** scum we don't want you, we don't want your skilled labour, fark off you bl*** b**** who have lived here for all your lives, fark your 40 years service to this country, fark your families, fark you all. Get the fark out."

    You forgot the obligatory "...but we still want to sign a free trade deal with you or the EU".
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Story suggested police have arrested someone and have demanded a DNA test to establish if they were indeed “windrush”.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,521
    The carpet is looking a bit lumpy these days.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    You’ll enjoy this B.B.

    A kiwi who came over to the U.K. can’t get a work visa because she doesn’t earn enough to cross the threshold, so she’s being sent back to New Zealand

    Fair enough you say; only she was a primary school teacher in the U.K.; hence not earning enough.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    You’ll enjoy this B.B.

    A kiwi who came over to the U.K. can’t get a work visa because she doesn’t earn enough to cross the threshold, so she’s being sent back to New Zealand

    Fair enough you say; only she was a primary school teacher in the U.K.; hence not earning enough.

    There must be more to that story

    https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Jo ... her/Salary
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    Isn't the threshold £18k?
    Ben

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  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,829
    You’ll enjoy this B.B.

    A kiwi who came over to the U.K. can’t get a work visa because she doesn’t earn enough to cross the threshold, so she’s being sent back to New Zealand

    Fair enough you say; only she was a primary school teacher in the U.K.; hence not earning enough.

    There must be more to that story

    https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Jo ... her/Salary

    If she was newly qualified outside London, that would be about right.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Yeah. It's unverified so could be BS.

    DNA story isn't however. Who knew genetics could determine if you get deported or not.

    Some real nazi sh!t, that.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rjsterry wrote:
    You’ll enjoy this B.B.

    A kiwi who came over to the U.K. can’t get a work visa because she doesn’t earn enough to cross the threshold, so she’s being sent back to New Zealand

    Fair enough you say; only she was a primary school teacher in the U.K.; hence not earning enough.

    There must be more to that story

    https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Jo ... her/Salary

    If she was newly qualified outside London, that would be about right.

    there seem some dogmatic answers that say a NQT outside london would earn at least £22,917

    https://getintoteaching.education.gov.u ... r-salaries
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,829
    rjsterry wrote:
    You’ll enjoy this B.B.

    A kiwi who came over to the U.K. can’t get a work visa because she doesn’t earn enough to cross the threshold, so she’s being sent back to New Zealand

    Fair enough you say; only she was a primary school teacher in the U.K.; hence not earning enough.

    There must be more to that story

    https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Jo ... her/Salary

    If she was newly qualified outside London, that would be about right.

    there seem some dogmatic answers that say a NQT outside london would earn at least £22,917

    https://getintoteaching.education.gov.u ... r-salaries

    Assuming the story is true, perhaps the HO didn't assess her salary correctly. If they are using anti-terror legislation to deport people for minor tax return errors, then the bar is set pretty low.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rjsterry wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    You’ll enjoy this B.B.

    A kiwi who came over to the U.K. can’t get a work visa because she doesn’t earn enough to cross the threshold, so she’s being sent back to New Zealand

    Fair enough you say; only she was a primary school teacher in the U.K.; hence not earning enough.

    There must be more to that story

    https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Jo ... her/Salary

    If she was newly qualified outside London, that would be about right.

    there seem some dogmatic answers that say a NQT outside london would earn at least £22,917

    https://getintoteaching.education.gov.u ... r-salaries

    Assuming the story is true, perhaps the HO didn't assess her salary correctly. If they are using anti-terror legislation to deport people for minor tax return errors, then the bar is set pretty low.

    If this is the story then she was refused for not having enough points for a tier 2 visa. As this story has been wel covered with specialist doctors being refused entry she really has no chance. My understanding is that salary is one factor and as a teacher in London with two years standing she is probably on nearer £30k.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12038601

    Frankly a Australian esque points based visa system to control immigration is the will of the people.

    If you track back you will also see that I have posted that Australia is scrapping the system because the market is more efficient.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,031
    I don't think it is that harsh. She came to the UK on a working holiday visa which is something that only a few countries are eligible for. The UK is far more generous in its offering of working holidays than those countries are, so she has been able to stay in the UK and do a proper job for two years.

    Of course, there is a debate whether the UK should be giving work visas to teachers due to the shortage / underpayment of teachers, but if there is a case to do so, then they should offer work visas and select the best teachers.

    I have read about many sad visa situations that are far worse than this.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,031
    I should add that I thoroughly support working holiday visas, and it is something that the UK has historically been very good at offering. Even during the "hostile environment" they added Korea, Japan and Taiwan to the list of eligible countries.