Velo South 2018

PostieJohn

Slowbike wrote:

How old? It's changed into Village ownership just a couple of years ago now ...

Oh it was probably a year ago, 2 at most, I still have nightmares about it.

slowbike

ah - under village ownership then ... plenty of other good places - although this route doesn't pass by my preferred ones.

milemuncher1

There’s a pub called the Red Lyon, pretty much where they’re putting the halfway feed stop. There’s a pub called the Red Lion, just before the hilly bit at the end of the ride. I like the Red Lyon, I also like the Red Lion, but which is better?

davep1

Are they actually stopping at Stan's near PG for an official stop?

N0bodyOfTheGoat

DaveP1 wrote:

This is THE South Harting cllimb, as far as I can work out -

https://www.strava.com/segments/2724911

Looks like 18% max to me, for a short time. I don't think I have ever ridden it so better get my ass over there soon!

I finally got over to Harting today, as part of my first ton, which was a tad more hilly than you Velo South 2018 entrants are doing.

Of the three cat4 climbs I did there, the one on your sportive is the easiest, it was the final one I did before heading to Finchdean.
https://www.strava.com/activities/15955 ... 9103/19425

Don't look at my data hoping to get meaningful gradients, I always use the Strava elevation correction tool, as my Lezyne (like a lot of GPS trackers, including Garmins) often gives dodgy reading (this ride was corrected from ~8300 to ~8900 feet by the correction tool).

However, none of them are easy cat4s, I was only ~53 miles into my ride and had to take the steep sections in my lowest gear (34/32). It didn't help that I had a rucksack of food, extra fluid etc. on my back, adding weight and preventing me from losing excess heat as quickly as I would like. Plus this was my first hundred, I've only done literally a handful of 60+ mile rides in the last ~17 months and this was only my second this year.

Now I've been to Harting, I definitely want to return to those three climbs, but preferably without a ~3Kg rucksack... So I can have a proper go at hopefully setting significantly quicker times.

PostieJohn

NitrousOxide wrote:

I finally got over to Harting today, as part of my first ton, which was a tad more hilly than you Velo South 2018 entrants are doing.

Of the three cat4 climbs I did there, the one on your sportive is the easiest, it was the final one I did before heading to Finchdean.
https://www.strava.com/activities/15955 ... 9103/19425

Don't look at my data hoping to get meaningful gradients, I always use the Strava elevation correction tool, as my Lezyne (like a lot of GPS trackers, including Garmins) often gives dodgy reading (this ride was corrected from ~8300 to ~8900 feet by the correction tool).

However, none of them are easy cat4s, I was only ~53 miles into my ride and had to take the steep sections in my lowest gear (34/32). It didn't help that I had a rucksack of food, extra fluid etc. on my back, adding weight and preventing me from losing excess heat as quickly as I would like. Plus this was my first hundred, I've only done literally a handful of 60+ mile rides in the last ~17 months and this was only my second this year.

Now I've been to Harting, I definitely want to return to those three climbs, but preferably without a ~3Kg rucksack... So I can have a proper go at hopefully setting significantly quicker times.

I'll hazard a guess you couldn't quite believe what happened as you were finally rolling down from Harting heading for home.
A lovely cruise through Compton "oh there's the tea room", a little right into the sleepy village of West Marsden then

"where the flip did this flipping wall come from"



Shirley 2 bottles, a banana, something else and coffee & cake money is all you need?

N0bodyOfTheGoat

PostieJohn wrote:

I'll hazard a guess you couldn't quite believe what happened as you were finally rolling down from Harting heading for home.
A lovely cruise through Compton "oh there's the tea room", a little right into the sleepy village of West Marsden then

"where the flip did this flipping wall come from"



Shirley 2 bottles, a banana, something else and coffee & cake money is all you need?

To be honest, the West Marsden "wall" didn't stand out that much, because the route I did had plenty of similar sections!

Off the top of my head...
Middle of White Way
Beginning of Hayden lane
Last bit of Harvesting Lane
Middle section of East Meon Rd
Just before the switchbacks on Bell Hill
Middle of "Slade Lane Climb"
A large amount of the three Harting climbs (B2146 to B2141 summit, Turkey Island, B2146 on Velo South route)
West Marsden "wall"
By Butser Ancient Farm (not that bad, but I stopped just before the incline to raid the rucksack, so lost all that downhill momentum)
Short section up the East Meon/ Coombe incline
Dell Rd
Bitterne 13.5%
etc.

With cash and knowledge of the route, you could do this sort of route with less luggage, using cafes/pubs for food and drink stops plus getting them to top up water bottles. But I was on very unfamiliar territory from Hawkley until I reached the top of North Lane by Butser Hill, I was a bit gutted when the Butser cafe was closed at ~1700 as I had plans for a full fat coke and an ice cream!
But I still had some of my expedition rations left, after leaving home with...
3 full rounds of peanut butter, reduced salt yeast extract, ginger marmalade sandwiches
12 fig rolls
~1.25 packs of Jelly Babies
3.25 litres water (2l in rucksack)

...Which sounds a lot, until you consider I left home at 1025 and got back at ~1945, only thing left were quite a few jelly babies.

I must look into a frame bag or saddle bag to replace the rucksack though for future adventures on this sort of scale, possibly also investing in http://www.halfords.com/cycling/bike-ac ... -reservoir

But finishing on a Velo South 2018 note, I don't envy you entrants having to find ~250W+ to get up the latter half of that final cat4 climb in Harting, after you've been on the road for ~91 miles! :shock:

milemuncher1

I’m going to go round again on Monday, it’d be rude not to really.

slowbike

How was it the second time?

milemuncher1

Slowbike wrote:

How was it the second time?

The weather forecast was massively wrong, so I rode elsewhere to avoid the horrendous storm that didn’t happen over there :roll:

kingrollo

Any reaction from the locals yet ?

In birmingham I don't think anyone really beleived it was going to happen - so it didn't kick off until a month before...

slowbike

yup - a few are "up in arms" about being cut off ... look at the last leg from Funtingdon to Lavant - closed from 0915-1845.
It's a long period for what is quite a main road to be closed. Yes, there are alternative routes if you're passing through, but I don't know what they're doing for locals who are within the closed road section.

What's interesting is that they've said they'll do a leaflet drop for those closest to the route - nothing through my door that I've seen.

milemuncher1

Slowbike wrote:

yup - a few are "up in arms" about being cut off ... look at the last leg from Funtingdon to Lavant - closed from 0915-1845.
It's a long period for what is quite a main road to be closed. Yes, there are alternative routes if you're passing through, but I don't know what they're doing for locals who are within the closed road section.

What's interesting is that they've said they'll do a leaflet drop for those closest to the route - nothing through my door that I've seen.

That bit is sparsely populated at best. There’s a couple of houses, and a couple of tiny little villages, I’d have thought they would appreciate having a few more people around.

slowbike

Milemuncher1 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

yup - a few are "up in arms" about being cut off ... look at the last leg from Funtingdon to Lavant - closed from 0915-1845.
It's a long period for what is quite a main road to be closed. Yes, there are alternative routes if you're passing through, but I don't know what they're doing for locals who are within the closed road section.

What's interesting is that they've said they'll do a leaflet drop for those closest to the route - nothing through my door that I've seen.

That bit is sparsely populated at best. There’s a couple of houses, and a couple of tiny little villages, I’d have thought they would appreciate having a few more people around.

hah - no, they'd much rather we kept off their land

I know the parish councils are already talking about it in their meetings - with scant info - like the bit on the A286 towards the end - is it a full road closure or will they allow one way traffic?

davep1

Locals in the Henfield area starting to get restless about the event now, moaning about the length of time the road is closed etc etc...

ugo.santalucia

As a cyclist, I actually symphatise with the locals for a number of reasons...

firstly, ALL these events only bring revenue to the pockets of very few, typically not involved in the local communities

Then of course you need to wonder what is the need for road closures when it is perfectly possiblew to run events with thousands of entrants on open roads... it's just to charge more money, which again goes in the pockets of very few.

Moreover, they just inflame people against cyclists in general and then we all have to deal with the consequences.

I think if these events have to go ahead, then they need to bring real benefits to the local communities... for instance roads could be resurfaced at the orgsaniser's expense, or feed zones should be arranged by local businesses, cafes' bakeries and whatnot. The entry fee could comprise a meal in one of a number of outlets along the way... there are many ways to make friends out of enemies, but seemingly nobody really want to, preferring instead to increase profits or donate to charities which have little to do with the locals.

vpnikolov

ugo.santalucia wrote:

As a cyclist, I actually symphatise with the locals for a number of reasons...

firstly, ALL these events only bring revenue to the pockets of very few, typically not involved in the local communities

Then of course you need to wonder what is the need for road closures when it is perfectly possiblew to run events with thousands of entrants on open roads... it's just to charge more money, which again goes in the pockets of very few.

Moreover, they just inflame people against cyclists in general and then we all have to deal with the consequences.

I think if these events have to go ahead, then they need to bring real benefits to the local communities... for instance roads could be resurfaced at the orgsaniser's expense, or feed zones should be arranged by local businesses, cafes' bakeries and whatnot. The entry fee could comprise a meal in one of a number of outlets along the way... there are many ways to make friends out of enemies, but seemingly nobody really want to, preferring instead to increase profits or donate to charities which have little to do with the locals.

I completely agree with the points re: lining up someone's pockets. You don't really see that in European countries. In Italy, for example, the roads do get quite frequently resurfaced for Maratona, but that is also for a number of other reasons, not strictly related only to the event. The route of Ride London can benefit from improvements but it is just getting worse and worse each year.

Moreover, they just inflame people against cyclists in general and then we all have to deal with the consequences.

Uhm, no. Have you ever done the Tour of Cambridgeshire? The locals are AMAZING along the route and very supportive of the event overall. It is just one example, but just shows that what you are saying is NOT ALWAYS true.

kingrollo

ugo.santalucia wrote:

As a cyclist, I actually symphatise with the locals for a number of reasons...

firstly, ALL these events only bring revenue to the pockets of very few, typically not involved in the local communities

Then of course you need to wonder what is the need for road closures when it is perfectly possiblew to run events with thousands of entrants on open roads... it's just to charge more money, which again goes in the pockets of very few.

Moreover, they just inflame people against cyclists in general and then we all have to deal with the consequences.

I think if these events have to go ahead, then they need to bring real benefits to the local communities... for instance roads could be resurfaced at the orgsaniser's expense, or feed zones should be arranged by local businesses, cafes' bakeries and whatnot. The entry fee could comprise a meal in one of a number of outlets along the way... there are many ways to make friends out of enemies, but seemingly nobody really want to, preferring instead to increase profits or donate to charities which have little to do with the locals.

Sorry mate but your p££ssing in the wind here .........

You could say the same about cycle manufacturers - they are only make bikes for a profit.

Seem to remember velo birmingham raised millions for charities - you seem to have overlooked that ? (Queen Elizabeth hospital was pretty local to Birmingham last time I looked) - this year I am raising funds for dementia uk - whether that is local or not - does it really matter ?

A few shops on the route were almost stripped bare by hungry thirsty cyclists

At the end of VB we ended up the arena where we were given a free beer - but could then purchase from local stalls - lots of people went to local pubs - and lots of people stayed over in hotel - I presume these were also local hotels

Some of the feed stops were in local pubs en route ?

Sure some people were unhappy with 15,000 cyclists descending on Brum - so people are unhappy when they see 3 cyclists - You will not close 100 miles of road with pissing someone off - be that for a cycling event, a motor sport event, road works, a carnival or an emergency.

If you don't like closed road sportives fine - if you expect them to run without upsetting a few people - get real.

slowbike

Other than RL, the only other closed road sportive I've done was Etap Loch Ness - I specifically asked one of the hotel staff about the pain of closing the main road between Inverness and Fort Albert - no problem says he - loves it, loves the influx of people into the town and said that many if not most locals feel the same way. But then, that was Scotland.
Tour of Flanders was excellent - not closed roads, but may as well have been - even where there was traffic on the road, the drivers treated the cyclists with respect - great place to ride.

As for Sussex - well, I think there will be quite a few more "up in arms" - 15k riders at @£80 each (how much was it?) is £1.2mill - sounds a lot, until you take out expenses - just the Goodwood motor circuit for the day (and the day before for setup?) will be a fair wack.

Resurfacing the road? Hah - quick search revealed a ballpark figure from Suffolk CC back in 2014 of £3/sqm for top dressing or £15/sqm for full resurface - quick calc at 6 meter wide thats £29k for top dressing or £145k for full resurface per MILE - £15million to resurface the whole route then... or just go for the (cyclist unfriendly) top dressing at £3million ...

I don't think it's the closed roads that pee people off so much - it's the not knowing exactly what access there will be - like for those final few miles, are they really going to close the whole road in both directions? Or will they do a one lane closure - which I would think would be more than enough - although then raises other issues like vehicles trying to cross the closed lane to access side roads & properties.

milemuncher1

The amount of extra revenue that the local businesses will get, on the day, and in future, from people re visiting, because they never knew the places were there, will probably soften the blow a bit.

ugo.santalucia

I was reading the FAQ about which bikes are not allowed and I am appalled they virtually deny the opportunity to enter to anyone with a disability... they specifically mention tricycles and handbikes not being allowed... not clear to me what would be a good reason to justify such unacceptable discrimination

slowbike

RL has similar rules on what bikes are allowed as have other sportives I've entered.
I can completely understand the ban on tribars.
As for tricycles & handbikes being excluded - not sure why - they'll say "health and safety" - but basically it probably boils down to 15000 riders on bikes - at least 10000 of whom won't know how to ride in a group with similar bikes, let alone know how a trike or handbike handles...

ugo.santalucia

Discrimination is never the answer...

slowbike

It really sounds like you're finding any excuse to criticize the event.
What we've had (may be not just from you) - Too expensive, too many people, too restrictive on locals, not contributing to the local economy, too restrictive.

Fact is - some events have to be restrictive in order to run.
There's no specific mention of disabilities in the terms and conditions - only that it's a hard sportive and anyone partaking needs to be fit enough - the organisers retain the right to exclude someone they believe cannot ride it (due to illness). Is that fair? Well - not if you're a handcyclist capable of riding 100 miles - or if you ride a trike (and I know someone who does) - but equally, you'd probably not want to do the event if you fall in those categories ...
They also ban child seats & tag alongs - so I can't take my son around - I'm sure I could manage it (within the time scale) - not sure he'd want to be stuck on the bike for that long though ... do I feel discriminated against? No - not in the slightest - if I want to do a long ride with my son then I'll go and organise one - with a far more suitable route...

ugo.santalucia

Slowbike wrote:

It really sounds like you're finding any excuse to criticize the event.
What we've had (may be not just from you) - Too expensive, too many people, too restrictive on locals, not contributing to the local economy, too restrictive.

That is absolutely true...

But it doesn't detract from the fact that banning bikes which are typically associated with disability is pretty pathetic. I get the point of tri-bars and fixed wheels but tricycles... really? I know people who do LEJOG in 7 days on a trike and they are not welcome at the Velo south? :roll:

slowbike

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I know people who do LEJOG in 7 days on a trike and they are not welcome at the Velo south? :roll:

Well - yes - so it seems - along with the tag along bikes, not sure they mentioned tandems - but single speed was mentioned (unless you have two brakes) - I'm sure we could come up with some obscure bike they wouldn't really want there that they've forgotten to ban ...
Oh - they banned e-Bikes too ... I can get hold of an e-Trike ... so that would be doubly banned ...
I'm sure the organisers have a good reason for doing so - and it'll be aimed the many rather than the exceptional few.

ugo.santalucia

Slowbike wrote:

I'm sure the organisers have a good reason for doing so -

They haven't... I bet they have no idea about how a modern trike looks like either. They have just borrowed the sentence from another site, which in turn borrowed it from somewhere else, probably in an age when discriminating was the norm.

As for the tandems, totally agree with you, I've seen one at the Fred Whitton, which is a much more demanding and hazardous course than this... no reason to ban a tandem... they don't bite and it might be the only way for some cyclists to get around (poor eye sight for instance)

milemuncher1

Slowbike wrote:

RL has similar rules on what bikes are allowed as have other sportives I've entered.
I can completely understand the ban on tribars.
As for tricycles & handbikes being excluded - not sure why - they'll say "health and safety" - but basically it probably boils down to 15000 riders on bikes - at least 10000 of whom won't know how to ride in a group with similar bikes, let alone know how a trike or handbike handles...

I can see a case for having no ‘bents, in a large pack, it’s asking for trouble, owing to the low profile / visibility, and possibly the same for handers and other HPVs.

kingrollo

banned list looks pretty similar to most events. its probably only half the organisers choice - they probably wouldnt clear H & S if they allowed all and sundry.

its more a case of some people just dont want the event to thrive.

ugo.santalucia

kingrollo wrote:

its more a case of some people just dont want the event to thrive.

Rewind 10 years to 2008... ALL sportives but one were run by local clubs for the benefit of cyclists, with no profits associated other than some money for charity. The Dragon Ride was already a "Granfondo" run for money by Mr Lunardi.
Then a group of professionals sniffed the potential to make money and began creating events out of nothing and more importantly they began buying out volunteer run events (Chiltern 100, Cornwall Tor, the list is endless..), doubled the entry fee for the same service... within a few years half of these events disappeared, as not financially viable... so that was not enough, the new concept of the "closed road" multimillion pound event was born.
The net result is that very decent events with entries running in the hundreds like the "Polka dot Challenge" (anyone remember it?) based on classic and frankly amazing routes with a bit of heritage (Milk Race anyone?) no longer exist... but we have a number of these anonymous events that boost themselves as the ultimate challenge using a language typically reserved to Arctic expeditions, run on a number of random lanes, as allowed by local councils, without any particular meaning or any particular direction... routes that retrace themselves into snake-like shapes to restrict as much as possible the area they cover, while trying to hit the magic figure of 100 miles. Totally pointless routes.

Do I have a problem with this? Running the risk to sound like a nostalgic Brexiteer, as a matter of fact I do.