Velo South 2018
Comments
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Metoffice is pretty bad at forecasts for around here...0
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To put things in perspective, the 2015 Etape du Dales had a 20 mph base wind and 50 mph gales on the exposed moors. All with 20% exposed descents.
It was a very hard day on the bike, but I would put it into the "memorable" rather than "unpleasant" category.
Sometimes ManningTFU helps you appreciate the outdoors more.
You can always plan an escape route back to the start if it gets too hard going... if you are not mentally prepared to fail, you will never make progressleft the forum March 20230 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:To put things in perspective, the 2015 Etape du Dales had a 20 mph base wind and 50 mph gales on the exposed moors. All with 20% exposed descents.
It was a very hard day on the bike, but I would put it into the "memorable" rather than "unpleasant" category.
Sometimes ManningTFU helps you appreciate the outdoors more.
You can always plan an escape route back to the start if it gets too hard going... if you are not mentally prepared to fail, you will never make progress
only about 1000 cyclists though.
15000 cyclists is a different matter imo0 -
kingrollo wrote:
only about 1000 cyclists though.
15000 cyclists is a different matter imo
On the other hand, you don't have to descend Fleet Moss with gales throwing you on the side of the mountain. Given the forecast, I expect a no show in the other of 40-50%.
As I said, you paid your money, go and see what the fuss is all about... worst case scenario you turn back after 5 miles and go to the pub... it's a nice enough part of the world to spend a weekend.
Bear in mind yellow warning means exactly that: be aware... you are aware... amber is a different ball gameleft the forum March 20230 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:To put things in perspective, the 2015 Etape du Dales had a 20 mph base wind and 50 mph gales on the exposed moors. All with 20% exposed descents.
It was a very hard day on the bike, but I would put it into the "memorable" rather than "unpleasant" category.
Sometimes ManningTFU helps you appreciate the outdoors more.
You can always plan an escape route back to the start if it gets too hard going... if you are not mentally prepared to fail, you will never make progress
We get it - you're far more of a man than anyone else riding....
15k riders with potentially significant wind & gusts may be beyond the organisers boundaries on acceptable conditions - they have a duty of care to ALL the riders - not just those "man enough". It's their call whether to allow their organisation of the ride to go ahead - and it'll be down to the risk assessors.
There will be many drop-outs - some mitigating their losses on the probability of it being cancelled or just an unpleasant ride - some will drop out because there will be little or less chance of a quick time - and others will drop for other reasons - we all have our limits/goals and ideals.
I'm riding - assuming the event is on - if it's cancelled I'm not riding - but fortunately, I've lost nothing - I wasn't going for a quick time. I would've liked to have done a century ride this season (not had a chance for one yet this year) and it would've been nice to ride (most of) it. But it's not the end of the world - it's just a bike ride...0 -
Slowbike wrote:some will drop out because there will be little or less chance of a quick time
That's me! Was looking forward to tagging along with some faster riders and maybe getting down to near the 5hr mark...
Might as well cut my losses if the weather is going to be grim. I don't need the "challenge" and I can ride empty roads at home for free when the weather is this bad!0 -
CptKernow wrote:Slowbike wrote:some will drop out because there will be little or less chance of a quick time
That's me! Was looking forward to tagging along with some faster riders and maybe getting down to near the 5hr mark...
Might as well cut my losses if the weather is going to be grim. I don't need the "challenge" and I can ride empty roads at home for free when the weather is this bad!
With "everyone" dropping out - if it's not canned then I can see there will be plenty of space for earlier starts ...0 -
Section 8.2 of the terms and conditions, reads:
If the Event is cancelled because of circumstances beyond the reasonable control of the Organiser including, without limitation, war, civil or political unrest, transport disruptions, terrorism, including reasonable threat thereof, inclement weather conditions, death of a member of the royal family and any legislation, regulations, ruling or omission of any relevant government, court, competent national authority or governing body, on advice of any security or police force and/or local authority consent or approval, or withdrawal of such consent or approval, (“Force Majeure”) then, save as set out below, the Participant will not be entitled to any refund of the entry fee and compensation of other losses, such as travelling or accommodation expenses.
Now pretend that you are the CEO of CSM Active Ltd and consider the options in the event of dangerous riding conditions:
1. The forecast suggest dangerous riding conditions but the financial risk is greater than cancellation. Do I take the risk in terms of riders' safety hoping that there are no incidents?
2. Force Majeure is enforced. Entrants do not receive their fees and we are able to fulfill contractual payments and not incur additional losses but our brand becomes toxic risking future events in terms of trust. Customers are in uproar and local authorities become doubtful of CSM.
3. Force majeure is implemented but we postpone. This means I still have to fulfill contractual payments for the current event as well as costs incurred for the postponed event. Also, we will need to restart negotiations with WSCC for imposition of TTROs, face continued local hostility and expend further payments to our suppliers for repeating the event.
4. Force majeure is implemented with fees transferred to Velo Birmingham and Midlands in May 2019. The number of riders taking this option will be limited and we able to retain the fees for most participants as the impacted will be limited in terms of loss of income from Velo Birmingham. Superficially we are seen as compassionate.
5. Force majeure is not enforced with full or partial refunds provided to participants. This will be publicly the most popular but risks the financial viability of the company as it will still need to covers its creditors and operations costs. Either CSM group takes the hit or CSM Active Ltd ceases to trade.
What would you choose as CEO?0 -
According to my Met Office app, the wind warning is now gone and it's just heavy rain.0
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I was contemplating doing my second century today, this time without a rucksack, vaguely similar route to last time including the Slade Lane and South Harting cat4s on the Velo South route. It's a bit windy today, that in itself wouldn't concern me too much except around the exposed Old Winchester Hill plateau, but I'm coming down with secondary lurgy infection which seems below the neck and muscular (initial one was nose and throat)... Probably wise to not spend 6+ hours on the bike!
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/wea ... 2018-09-23 looking quite wet and a nice tailwind for the cat4 on Sunday! :shock:
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2020 Voodoo Marasa
2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
2016 Voodoo Wazoo0 -
Maybe you should also consider the possibility that riders won't feel comfortable sticking to wheels that constantly spray them with water. RideLondon this year is a good example of that, limited to no chaingangs almost the whole way.CptKernow wrote:Slowbike wrote:some will drop out because there will be little or less chance of a quick time
That's me! Was looking forward to tagging along with some faster riders and maybe getting down to near the 5hr mark...
Might as well cut my losses if the weather is going to be grim. I don't need the "challenge" and I can ride empty roads at home for free when the weather is this bad!0 -
Slowbike wrote:
We get it - you're far more of a man than anyone else riding....
It's not a question of who is more man... it just seems silly to me to give up before even trying. There is nothing wrong in giving it a go and turning back if it's too wet or too windy, but not even showing up after having invested significant money and effort, seems questionable.
It might be that some websites quote hurricane force numbers to get more clicks, but the Metoffice forecast, which hopefully is not there to make money out of people clicks, is really not that dire.left the forum March 20230 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:Slowbike wrote:
We get it - you're far more of a man than anyone else riding....
It's not a question of who is more man... it just seems silly to me to give up before even trying. There is nothing wrong in giving it a go and turning back if it's too wet or too windy, but not even showing up after having invested significant money and effort, seems questionable.
It might be that some websites quote hurricane force numbers to get more clicks, but the Metoffice forecast, which hopefully is not there to make money out of people clicks, is really not that dire.
Some people are traveling quite some distance to ride it. Whilst they have spent the £75 on entry - they've also got accommodation, food & fuel expenses to go on top which could easily be in excess of the entry fee. I can quite understand why they'd pull out now whilst they can cut their losses on a ride that may even get cancelled - at least that way they know what they're doing...
For those that are local - it's less of an issue - they can pull out on the morning if they want to - or ride - monetary wise there's little difference - even time wise as it's an early morning start...0 -
^^this. I won't be having the day off, just not keen of throwing good money after bad...0
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ugo.santalucia wrote:Slowbike wrote:
We get it - you're far more of a man than anyone else riding....
It's not a question of who is more man... it just seems silly to me to give up before even trying. There is nothing wrong in giving it a go and turning back if it's too wet or too windy, but not even showing up after having invested significant money and effort, seems questionable.
It might be that some websites quote hurricane force numbers to get more clicks, but the Metoffice forecast, which hopefully is not there to make money out of people clicks, is really not that dire.
I think I paid £90 to enter -
my hotel was £108
petrol would probably be between £40-50
meal on the evening £40-50
I can cut my losses to the £90 fee - I also don't think on a closed road sportive it wouldn't be that easy to bail out after a few miles - especially in an area you don't know
I went out a for a short ride this morning - back not great - so the probability of riding in pain and the howling wind and shelling out a further £200, just too many things against it - hope I get offered a place to a future event - I really want to conquer harting hill !!!!!
So sorry folks I m out.0 -
Likewise.
I'll save the cash from hotel, train fees and eating out by bailing now.
The forecast round here is pretty reasonable for Saturday so I'll go for a long ride on Saturday instead.0 -
kingrollo wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:Slowbike wrote:
We get it - you're far more of a man than anyone else riding....
It's not a question of who is more man... it just seems silly to me to give up before even trying. There is nothing wrong in giving it a go and turning back if it's too wet or too windy, but not even showing up after having invested significant money and effort, seems questionable.
It might be that some websites quote hurricane force numbers to get more clicks, but the Metoffice forecast, which hopefully is not there to make money out of people clicks, is really not that dire.
I think I paid £90 to enter -
my hotel was £108
petrol would probably be between £40-50
meal on the evening £40-50
I can cut my losses to the £90 fee - I also don't think on a closed road sportive it would be that easy to bail out after a few miles - especially in an area you don't know
I went out a for a short ride this morning - back not great - so the probability of riding in pain and the howling wind and shelling out a further £200, just too many things against it - hope I get offered a place to a future event - I really want to conquer harting hill !!!!!
So sorry folks I m out.
Give us a shout when you're feeling up to it - come down and ride with the club - I'll get them to set the course up Harting for you ... there will be (the option of) coffee & cake (but you'll have to pay for your own
)- it won't be closed roads, but it's a ride 
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Slowbike wrote:kingrollo wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:Slowbike wrote:
We get it - you're far more of a man than anyone else riding....
It's not a question of who is more man... it just seems silly to me to give up before even trying. There is nothing wrong in giving it a go and turning back if it's too wet or too windy, but not even showing up after having invested significant money and effort, seems questionable.
It might be that some websites quote hurricane force numbers to get more clicks, but the Metoffice forecast, which hopefully is not there to make money out of people clicks, is really not that dire.
I think I paid £90 to enter -
my hotel was £108
petrol would probably be between £40-50
meal on the evening £40-50
I can cut my losses to the £90 fee - I also don't think on a closed road sportive it would be that easy to bail out after a few miles - especially in an area you don't know
I went out a for a short ride this morning - back not great - so the probability of riding in pain and the howling wind and shelling out a further £200, just too many things against it - hope I get offered a place to a future event - I really want to conquer harting hill !!!!!
So sorry folks I m out.
Give us a shout when you're feeling up to it - come down and ride with the club - I'll get them to set the course up Harting for you ... there will be (the option of) coffee & cake (but you'll have to pay for your own )- it won't be closed roads, but it's a ride
OK - I might just take u up on that - what sort of pace do you guys ride at ?0 -
Dibs on joining too. I'm still yet to see what everyone is on about with Harting hill.
My losses will be the £70 entrance fee and a few quid for bits of food for my pockets.
Luckily I'm local so i's not too bad if it's cancelled/I decide not to do it.0 -
kingrollo wrote:
OK - I might just take u up on that - what sort of pace do you guys ride at ?
Not meaning to question your choices, but since you are a Midlander, I would say you have bigger climbs than Harting hill on your doorstep... this is a selection of 7 of the best
https://www.strava.com/activities/1654567082left the forum March 20230 -
Looking at Strava I can't see why Harting has such a reputation.
Surely Beacon or Winchester hill is more difficult?
It certainly can't be any worse than harvesting Lane0 -
Dannbodge wrote:Looking at Strava I can't see why Harting has such a reputation.
Surely Beacon or Winchester hill is more difficult?
It certainly can't be any worse than harvesting Lane
Living down this way I can confirm that there are worse, Bexley Hill for example. Harting does have a steep kick at the top and being towards of the end of the ride adds more to it but yes, there are worse.0 -
Depends which club - and which ride in the club - anything from low to high teens mostly. There is a group that aim at 20+ but that's an evening ride (no coffee or cake - but sometimes there's a pub afterwards!).kingrollo wrote:OK - I might just take u up on that - what sort of pace do you guys ride at ?
Sounds like we could do a BR group ride though 0 -
Beacon for sure way tougher than Harting - toughest in the area is Bignor, but not many do it, know of it, as it's a dead end along with a couple of other lanes that only lead up to the South Downs.
https://www.strava.com/activities/685965120
Majority of my climbing is in the French Alps and I'm always amazed at how it can be just as tough to do a ride like the above one compared to long climbs in the Alps0 -
cmh28 wrote:Dannbodge wrote:Looking at Strava I can't see why Harting has such a reputation.
Surely Beacon or Winchester hill is more difficult?
It certainly can't be any worse than harvesting Lane
Living down this way I can confirm that there are worse, Bexley Hill for example. Harting does have a steep kick at the top and being towards of the end of the ride adds more to it but yes, there are worse.
Yes, there are easily much "worse" hills around - Harting N-S is one of the steeper ones - but I prefer Turkey Island - just a stones throw to the east - but it doesn't get you to the same point. I suppose what makes Harting more "notorious" is the lack of options around it and the number of (short) climbs you tend to do to get to the bottom of it.
I can get up Harting on a TT bike using 39F 25R - but it's quicker on the road bike with easier gearing - after ~80 miles though, it's not a hill you can just click into bottom gear and trudge up - you'll need bottom gear, but it's still hard work.0 -
Dannbodge wrote:Looking at Strava I can't see why Harting has such a reputation.
Surely Beacon or Winchester hill is more difficult?
It certainly can't be any worse than harvesting Lane
In terms of the elevation climb over their steepest ~0.7 miles (the length of the Harting cat4 after the dip), they rank...
Harvesting ~335 feet
White Way on Beacon Hill ~270 feet
Harting ~269 feet
Old Winchester ~180 feet
But the other climbs are longer and higher (~395, ~415 and ~418 feet over ~1.5; 1.56 and ~2.14 miles respectively) overall.
The Harting cat4 has been "feared" in this thread because it's quite steep and riders will meet their maker after already having done ~90 miles, if the event takes place given the weather forecast.================
2020 Voodoo Marasa
2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
2016 Voodoo Wazoo0 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:kingrollo wrote:
OK - I might just take u up on that - what sort of pace do you guys ride at ?
Not meaning to question your choices, but since you are a Midlander, I would say you have bigger climbs than Harting hill on your doorstep... this is a selection of 7 of the best
https://www.strava.com/activities/1654567082
Yes for sure - I have winwood heath road just 10 minutes from where I live. and I have rode tour of the wrekin twice this year
This might sound like a daft think to say after I have just bailed on the event. But I am the sort of person who if I say I am going to do something - I do it. As it stands Harting hill has beaten me - and that hurts.0 -
Slowbike wrote:
Sounds like we could do a BR group ride though
Let me see... I organised one... 2013 or 2014, can't remember... there were 5 of us (myself, DRLodge, Paul27something, Charlie Potatoes and one of his friends)... would have been 6 but BobbinoGS got lost on his way in. It was a good route in Warwickshire/Oxfordshire and a good day out was had by all
I subsequently tried to organise a second but it proved a non starter... :roll:left the forum March 20230 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:Slowbike wrote:
Sounds like we could do a BR group ride though
Let me see... I organised one... 2013 or 2014, can't remember... there were 5 of us (myself, DRLodge, Paul27something, Charlie Potatoes and one of his friends)... would have been 6 but BobbinoGS got lost on his way in. It was a good route in Warwickshire/Oxfordshire and a good day out was had by all
I subsequently tried to organise a second but it proved a non starter... :roll:
Well - we did that CX one in Kingston way back ... er ... oh - and it rained ... Nice expresso in the Kingston marketplace though - needed that 0 -
Slowbike wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:Slowbike wrote:
Sounds like we could do a BR group ride though
Let me see... I organised one... 2013 or 2014, can't remember... there were 5 of us (myself, DRLodge, Paul27something, Charlie Potatoes and one of his friends)... would have been 6 but BobbinoGS got lost on his way in. It was a good route in Warwickshire/Oxfordshire and a good day out was had by all
I subsequently tried to organise a second but it proved a non starter... :roll:
Well - we did that CX one in Kingston way back ... er ... oh - and it rained ... Nice expresso in the Kingston marketplace though - needed that
Yes, I capsized in a massive puddle on top of the common...
There was a stall doing chicken tikka wraps in the square... wonder if it's still there... :roll:left the forum March 20230
