What sport/game does a joe vs pro stand the best chance?

rolf_f

I would assume the sports that are tough to get into from the start - simply because far fewer people have the chance to try so effectively the competence level must be relatively low. Eg say Touring Cars. You have to have gone through the due process for years before anyone will risk letting you play with a touring car - or have stacks of money or sponsorship of your own; and that historically has been a way for relative amateurs to get in. Those have tended to be a bit crap but nevertheless hold their own to a point and potentially beat rivals who got where they got based on talent. Even happened in F1 years ago at least.

DeVlaeminck

Boxing? Using the OPs criteria are the low level pros much better than good solid amateurs?

tailwindhome

The flaw in the golf argument is that the amateurs who do well, Justin Rose in the Open, Shane Lowry winning the Irish Open are amateurs only because they haven't turned pro yet. They're not exactly 'joes'

I reckon football is the answer. But only to a degree. A well coached team of amateurs can defend for long periods of the game to keep score lines respectable against top class opposition or England

Wheelspinner

Cricket.

verylonglegs

Wheelspinner wrote:

Cricket.

I think that is one of the answers if you were looking for a sport where they stood the least chance against a pro.

rick_chasey

TailWindHome wrote:

A well coached team of amateurs can defend for long periods of the game to keep score lines respectable against top class opposition or England

#banter

crispybug2

verylonglegs wrote:

Wheelspinner wrote:

Cricket.

I think that is one of the answers if you were looking for a sport where they stood the least chance against a pro.

I played for Northamptonshire u-14's and u-15's at cricket, so in general terms I was a decent cricketer

We did nets with a couple of first team and international players, Safraz Nawaz a Pakistani fast bowler and Bushen Bedi an Indian spinner

I faced about ten or fifteen deliveries from Safraz before I even laid bat on ball, he was so fast that for the first delivery all that I heard was the nets bulge behind me and I didn't even see the ball!!
And as for Bedi, he twisted me and the other juniors inside out with his deliveries

So, no!! Cricket isn't a sport where amateurs stand a chance against pro's.

joe2008

crispybug2 wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

Wheelspinner wrote:

Cricket.

I think that is one of the answers if you were looking for a sport where they stood the least chance against a pro.

I played for Northamptonshire u-14's and u-15's at cricket, so in general terms I was a decent cricketer

We did nets with a couple of first team and international players, Safraz Nawaz a Pakistani fast bowler and Bushen Bedi an Indian spinner

I faced about ten or fifteen deliveries from Safraz before I even laid bat on ball, he was so fast that for the first delivery all that I heard was the nets bulge behind me and I didn't even see the ball!!
And as for Bedi, he twisted me and the other juniors inside out with his deliveries

So, no!! Cricket isn't a sport where amateurs stand a chance against pro's.

Two truly great bowlers. Bishen Bedi was a magician.

norvernrob

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Boxing? Using the OPs criteria are the low level pros much better than good solid amateurs?

Well, there are journeymen who have normal jobs, often take fights at a couple of weeks notice, and rack up hundreds of losses over a career. But they don't win much, they're there are cannon fodder for up and coming fighters.

But any full time pro would utterly destroy a normal joe, the difference in skill and punching from a pro to someone untrained would be embarrassing at best and dangerous at worst.

ben@31

Formula 1.

You just need a few million quid and you can buy yourself a season. Just look at "Pay Drivers" like Ricardo Rosset

33 Formula One entries
0 Wins
0 Podiums
0 Career Points
0 Pole Positions
0 Fastest Laps
14 Retirements
6 Did Not Qualify

.. But he did come from a wealthy family.

after severely damaging his car in qualifying at the 1998 Monaco Grand Prix and receiving a warning from the stewards, his furious mechanics switched the first and last letters of his surname on his paddock scooter to form the word "tosseR".

timothyw

That's not really standing a chance though is it?

You could make the argument that Graeme Obree is an example of an amateur that stood up to and beat the pros, although obviously he had a good amount of natural talent to fall back on that could well have carried him into the pro ranks had he chosen to take that route - and ultimately, Boardman, the pro, did overhaul all his records.

I think there's probably a few keen amateur time trialists who given the right course could beat pro riders in TT events, although we're talking about climbers rather than TT specialists

I wonder if there are other sports to be found where an amateur with a good idea could overhaul pros with superior ability by bringing in a new technique? The fosbury flop in the high jump obviously brought about huge change in the sport.

Now I think of it, wasn't the butterfly stroke in swimming introduced by someone bending the rules for breaststroke?

ben@31

TimothyW wrote:

That's not really standing a chance though is it?

Looking at the results of the losing side in some professional sports... last month Crystal Palace lost 0-5 to Man City. I could do just as badly and I'll even do it for less than £100,000 a week.

joe2008

I would say that a non based skill sport, such as cycling or running would be the best chance for a joe to beat a pro.

city_boy

joe2008 wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Maybe something like snooker or darts?

You've obviously never played snooker.

I'd say that was one of the hardest sports for Joe to stand any chance, even professionals outside the top 16/32 don't stand much of a chance against the best.

I've played lots of snooker and have to disagree.

One of the more unique aspects of cue sports is that while you're at the table your opponent can do nothing in response. There are loads of local club level players that are capable of making frame winning breaks. Admittedly against the very very best or against a pro over a longer match it would be difficult for a joe to compete. But over a single frame or a short match, say best of 3 or 5, snooker is definitely one of the sports a joe could compete with a pro.

joe2008

City Boy wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Maybe something like snooker or darts?

You've obviously never played snooker.

I'd say that was one of the hardest sports for Joe to stand any chance, even professionals outside the top 16/32 don't stand much of a chance against the best.

I've played lots of snooker and have to disagree.

One of the more unique aspects of cue sports is that while you're at the table your opponent can do nothing in response. There are loads of local club level players that are capable of making frame winning breaks. Admittedly against the very very best or against a pro over a longer match it would be difficult for a joe to compete. But over a single frame or a short match, say best of 3 or 5, snooker is definitely one of the sports a joe could compete with a pro.

You make a very good point, and I agree.

I was thinking more of teaching a joe who had never picked up a cue.

meursault

Poker is a good shout, you can play perfect strategy but if the poker gods are against you, they will keep giving the fish the perfect miracle cards.

I played in the world series of poker 2002, in Vegas, just before the boom. Won a $10000 seat in an online tournament. Lasted until end of day one, before being knocked out by another Brit, Julian Gardener who finished 2nd.

john80

Lawn bowls.

Wheelspinner

crispybug2 wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

Wheelspinner wrote:

Cricket.

I think that is one of the answers if you were looking for a sport where they stood the least chance against a pro.

I played for Northamptonshire u-14's and u-15's at cricket, so in general terms I was a decent cricketer

We did nets with a couple of first team and international players, Safraz Nawaz a Pakistani fast bowler and Bushen Bedi an Indian spinner

I faced about ten or fifteen deliveries from Safraz before I even laid bat on ball, he was so fast that for the first delivery all that I heard was the nets bulge behind me and I didn't even see the ball!!
And as for Bedi, he twisted me and the other juniors inside out with his deliveries

So, no!! Cricket isn't a sport where amateurs stand a chance against pro's.

That's exactly why it is a sport the amateurs stand a chance. Watch any test match and half the tail end batsmen can't get bat on ball either, and they're the pick of the pros? How is that any different? Maybe if you'd faced a few balls from the opening batsmen from the international team instead you might have had better results.

Rest of the time is just standing around in a field, and any amateur can do that.

mrb123

joe2008 wrote:

I would say that a non based skill sport, such as cycling or running would be the best chance for a joe to beat a pro.

Can't agree with this. It's not really possible to fluke a 4 minute mile or a 38 minute Alpe D'Huez. Given enough tries though a monkey would eventually throw a 180.

Matthewfalle

joe2008 wrote:

City Boy wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Maybe something like snooker or darts?

You've obviously never played snooker.

I'd say that was one of the hardest sports for Joe to stand any chance, even professionals outside the top 16/32 don't stand much of a chance against the best.

I've played lots of snooker and have to disagree.

One of the more unique aspects of cue sports is that while you're at the table your opponent can do nothing in response. There are loads of local club level players that are capable of making frame winning breaks. Admittedly against the very very best or against a pro over a longer match it would be difficult for a joe to compete. But over a single frame or a short match, say best of 3 or 5, snooker is definitely one of the sports a joe could compete with a pro.

You make a very good point, and I agree.

I was thinking more of teaching a joe who had never picked up a cue.

does that mean I was right then?

oh theres a surprise.

remember - listen to Smithy.

rick_chasey

meursault wrote:

Poker is a good shout, you can play perfect strategy but if the poker gods are against you, they will keep giving the fish the perfect miracle cards.

I played in the world series of poker 2002, in Vegas, just before the boom. Won a $10000 seat in an online tournament. Lasted until end of day one, before being knocked out by another Brit, Julian Gardener who finished 2nd.

Not a sport.

finchy

Rick Chasey wrote:

meursault wrote:

Poker is a good shout, you can play perfect strategy but if the poker gods are against you, they will keep giving the fish the perfect miracle cards.

I played in the world series of poker 2002, in Vegas, just before the boom. Won a $10000 seat in an online tournament. Lasted until end of day one, before being knocked out by another Brit, Julian Gardener who finished 2nd.

Not a sport.

Read the thread title.

Garry H

Probably a kids' sport, like BMX for example.

figbat

Equestrianism. A handy rider on a decent horse can, and do, beat Olympians and World Champions on a weekly basis.

rick_chasey

finchy wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

meursault wrote:

Poker is a good shout, you can play perfect strategy but if the poker gods are against you, they will keep giving the fish the perfect miracle cards.

I played in the world series of poker 2002, in Vegas, just before the boom. Won a $10000 seat in an online tournament. Lasted until end of day one, before being knocked out by another Brit, Julian Gardener who finished 2nd.

Not a sport.

Read the thread title.

In which case, I see your poker, and raise you roulette.

finchy

Rick Chasey wrote:

finchy wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

meursault wrote:

Poker is a good shout, you can play perfect strategy but if the poker gods are against you, they will keep giving the fish the perfect miracle cards.

I played in the world series of poker 2002, in Vegas, just before the boom. Won a $10000 seat in an online tournament. Lasted until end of day one, before being knocked out by another Brit, Julian Gardener who finished 2nd.

Not a sport.

Read the thread title.

In which case, I see your poker, and raise you roulette.

Snakes and ladders.

bonk_king

City Boy wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Maybe something like snooker or darts?

You've obviously never played snooker.

I'd say that was one of the hardest sports for Joe to stand any chance, even professionals outside the top 16/32 don't stand much of a chance against the best.

I've played lots of snooker and have to disagree.

One of the more unique aspects of cue sports is that while you're at the table your opponent can do nothing in response. There are loads of local club level players that are capable of making frame winning breaks. Admittedly against the very very best or against a pro over a longer match it would be difficult for a joe to compete. But over a single frame or a short match, say best of 3 or 5, snooker is definitely one of the sports a joe could compete with a pro.

What a load of tosh. And how long can an average joe stay at the table to prevent the pro from destroying him. If the average joe is good enough to stay at the table and make a sizeable frame winning break against a pro then i'd say he wasn't an average joe.

figbat

figbat wrote:

Equestrianism. A handy rider on a decent horse can, and do, beat Olympians and World Champions on a weekly basis.

I am specifically referring to eventing, rather than showjumping or dressage, where it is possible but unlikely. In eventing you regularly get weekend hobbyists (with full time day jobs) competing directly against professional riders and sometimes beating them. Yes, you need some money to buy and run the horse, equipment etc and on average the pro’s will usually win out. Also, equestrianism is the only Olympic sport where men and women compete against each other equally (it’s also the same at all levels). And where your equipment can have an off day.

city_boy

bonk king wrote:

City Boy wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Maybe something like snooker or darts?

You've obviously never played snooker.

I'd say that was one of the hardest sports for Joe to stand any chance, even professionals outside the top 16/32 don't stand much of a chance against the best.

I've played lots of snooker and have to disagree.

One of the more unique aspects of cue sports is that while you're at the table your opponent can do nothing in response. There are loads of local club level players that are capable of making frame winning breaks. Admittedly against the very very best or against a pro over a longer match it would be difficult for a joe to compete. But over a single frame or a short match, say best of 3 or 5, snooker is definitely one of the sports a joe could compete with a pro.

What a load of tosh. And how long can an average joe stay at the table to prevent the pro from destroying him. If the average joe is good enough to stay at the table and make a sizeable frame winning break against a pro then i'd say he wasn't an average joe.

I consider myself an average joe as far as sport goes. I've played snooker as a hobby at local club league level and done it myself. I've seen lots of hobbyist/'play-for-fun' average joe snooker players not only knock in frame winning breaks, I've seen them do it against main tour pros as well.

joe2008

Pool.

You can keep your pro opponent off the table while you pot 8 balls, and the small table makes that much easier than snooker.