What sport/game does a joe vs pro stand the best chance?

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  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,320
    edited October 2017
    ...
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,320
    voodooman wrote:
    Golf is only a chance because there are loads of pros in other sports who like golf and have the time, inclination and determination (+ competitiveness, they're pros for a reason) to be very good at it. I hate golf with a passion really, but even I can place well in long driving competitions (tall with long levers + the ball is still - how difficult is that!) with a bit of a genetic advantage.

    Another example, one of the highest age graded runners at Southampton Parkrun is Richard Nerurkar who ran 16:16 aged 50! That's just insane. In any endurance event, a joe has no chance. None.

    What distance is that Park run?
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  • voodooman
    voodooman Posts: 183
    Parkrun exactly 5k. There are loads of sub 17 runners, but then compare with Mo Farah, who runs 5k splits at around 14 minutes... as marathon pace. Imagine that, 9 consecutive 14 minute 5ks. Unbelievable.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,320
    voodooman wrote:
    Parkrun exactly 5k. There are loads of sub 17 runners, but then compare with Mo Farah, who runs 5k splits at around 14 minutes... as marathon pace. Imagine that, 9 consecutive 14 minute 5ks. Unbelievable.

    I can't 'imagine that', i'm not a runner. My brother is and he won the vets class in a full marathon once and he said he couldn't keep up with professional marathon runners at world class pace for more than the initial 3k's at his peak.
    That puts it into perspective.
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  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,320
    Just done a quick calculation of the world record marathon time of 2 hrs 2 mins 57 seconds by Dennis Kimetto. It's an average of 12.2 mph/19.5 kph.
    Holy sh1t :shock:
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  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Well there was the Venice Marathon last weekend. Lead group of international runners went the wrong way as the lead biker missed the turn.
    Ended up being won by a local. Still an amazing time but he shouldn't have won normally.

    Similar in triathlon - Windsor Tri the leading pro turned at the wrong buoy. Everyone following him apart from a pro who was further off the oace. I think most of the top 10 were DQ s.

    Its easy to see how good runners are. Just turn the treadmill up to the 10k world record and see how long you can last.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,320
    cougie wrote:
    Well there was the Venice Marathon last weekend. Lead group of international runners went the wrong way as the lead biker missed the turn.
    Ended up being won by a local. Still an amazing time but he shouldn't have won normally.

    Similar in triathlon - Windsor Tri the leading pro turned at the wrong buoy. Everyone following him apart from a pro who was further off the oace. I think most of the top 10 were DQ s.

    Its easy to see how good runners are. Just turn the treadmill up to the 10k world record and see how long you can last.

    "Dennis Kimetto's world record performance at the Berlin Marathon is hard to fully appreciate. Let's put it in perspective. -Kimetto sustained an average pace of just under 13 miles-per-hour for two hours. -His mile pace was 4:42, faster than the fastest speed an average treadmill can reach..."

    From:

    http://www.mensfitness.com/sports/how-f ... ord-really
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  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,560
    Pinno wrote:
    A scratch golfer is in the top 1% who play the game

    So what you are saying is that a scratch golfer is not an average 'Joe'. Agreed.
    Not quite accurate though, but whatever.

    The number of people who claim they "play golf" includes a vast number who turn up twice a year at most to a corporate booze-fest day with their mates, roll around in carts sculling beers and pretending they are interested in the game. They're actually alcoholics enjoying a drive without a breath-test in sight, but not really "golfers"... :D

    If you remove these muppets from the statistics to count proper golfers only, the actual percentage of scratch players is *much much* higher. It's actually not that difficult at all to get your handicap down to low single figures, and to get to scratch or better requires a bit of consistency and a bit more putting practice. That's it.

    Most players with a handicap under 5 will have shot rounds (well) under par off the stick plenty of times, so the gap between them and a pro is really not that great on any given day. Whether they could do it when the downhill 3 footer on the last is worth a million bucks is a different matter.
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  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    cougie wrote:
    Its easy to see how good runners are. Just turn the treadmill up to the 10k world record and see how long you can last.

    Yeh I could run quite a bit about 10yrs ago (still can, but not a patch on where I was*) and once knocked out a 38min 10k. I was at my absolute limit there and I trained A LOT that summer. To think that the 10000m WR is 26:17.53 and that the WR holding marathon time equates to a 29min 10000m absolutely blows my mind. These lads are FLYING.

    Interestingly, I see the last five marathon WRs were set at Berlin. Does anyone know, is it a notably "fast" course?

    *nearer to 43min nowadays, not bad for a 37yr old cyclist
    Ben

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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,585
    edited October 2017
    Ben6899 wrote:
    cougie wrote:
    Its easy to see how good runners are. Just turn the treadmill up to the 10k world record and see how long you can last.

    Yeh I could run quite a bit about 10yrs ago (still can, but not a patch on where I was*) and once knocked out a 38min 10k. I was at my absolute limit there and I trained A LOT that summer. To think that the 10000m WR is 26:17.53 and that the WR holding marathon time equates to a 29min 10000m absolutely blows my mind. These lads are FLYING.

    Interestingly, I see the last five marathon WRs were set at Berlin. Does anyone know, is it a notably "fast" course?

    *nearer to 43min nowadays, not bad for a 37yr old cyclist

    Yes, Berlin is easily the fastest course of the big city marathons. It's also held in colder (and therefore faster) conditions, given time of year.

    *Boston is faster, but is usually discounted 'cos of net negative elevation and usually a big tailwind.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,479
    Pinno wrote:
    Just done a quick calculation of the world record marathon time of 2 hrs 2 mins 57 seconds by Dennis Kimetto. It's an average of 12.2 mph/19.5 kph.
    Holy sh1t :shock:

    I run pretty regularly and can't even manage 400m at that pace. That said I'm going to argue my attempt at a marathon tomorrow will be harder as I'll be running for well over double the time he does. He's probably never run non-stop for 4.5 hours so I'm the better endurance athlete ;)
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    Yes, Berlin is easily the fastest course of the big city marathons. It's also held in colder (and therefore faster) conditions, given time of year.

    *Boston is faster, but is usually discounted 'cos of net negative elevation and usually a big tailwind.

    Thanks Rick.
    Ben

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  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,560
    Ben6899 wrote:
    cougie wrote:
    Its easy to see how good runners are. Just turn the treadmill up to the 10k world record and see how long you can last.

    Yeh I could run quite a bit about 10yrs ago (still can, but not a patch on where I was*) and once knocked out a 38min 10k. I was at my absolute limit there and I trained A LOT that summer. To think that the 10000m WR is 26:17.53 and that the WR holding marathon time equates to a 29min 10000m absolutely blows my mind. These lads are FLYING.

    Interestingly, I see the last five marathon WRs were set at Berlin. Does anyone know, is it a notably "fast" course?

    *nearer to 43min nowadays, not bad for a 37yr old cyclist
    Everyone takes the pi$$ out of triantelopes here, but seriously... this year's Hawaii winner did the 180 km on a bike at 40 km/h average... THEN ran the marathon in 2:40. Other-worldly.
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,585
    NP.

    I love any type of racing (apart from animals), so i get into this stuff.
  • natrix
    natrix Posts: 1,111
    Pinno wrote:
    natrix wrote:
    Banger racing

    Could you tell the difference between a top banger racer's banging compared to Joe's banger banging?

    First across the line is the winner. If the top racers get taken out then Joe could well win
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  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    Everyone takes the pi$$ out of triantelopes here, but seriously... this year's Hawaii winner did the 180 km on a bike at 40 km/h average... THEN ran the marathon in 2:40. Other-worldly.

    It's the little socks, lack of sleeves and IM tattoos that we take the pi$$ out of. Oh and the drinking straws. :)

    I think anyone with half a brain cell can see these top level triathletes are really quite something!
    Ben

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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,585
    Ben6899 wrote:
    Everyone takes the pi$$ out of triantelopes here, but seriously... this year's Hawaii winner did the 180 km on a bike at 40 km/h average... THEN ran the marathon in 2:40. Other-worldly.

    It's the little socks, lack of sleeves and IM tattoos that we take the pi$$ out of. Oh and the drinking straws. :)

    I think anyone with half a brain cell can see these top level triathletes are really quite something!

    Do have bizarre bike crashes though.
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,560
    Ben6899 wrote:
    Everyone takes the pi$$ out of triantelopes here, but seriously... this year's Hawaii winner did the 180 km on a bike at 40 km/h average... THEN ran the marathon in 2:40. Other-worldly.

    It's the little socks, lack of sleeves and IM tattoos that we take the pi$$ out of. Oh and the drinking straws. :)

    I think anyone with half a brain cell can see these top level triathletes are really quite something!

    Do have bizarre bike crashes though.

    Can't argue with either of those things.. :D
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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,479
    Distance running is an interesting one actually. Look at this year's London Marathon and Josh Griffiths, who is a (very talented) club athlete started in the main mass start event and yet was 13th quickest overall. He beat many elite runners including all the Brits in that part of the race but then to go back to my previous point where do you draw the line of a professional in running?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,585
    Pross wrote:
    Distance running is an interesting one actually. Look at this year's London Marathon and Josh Griffiths, who is a (very talented) club athlete started in the main mass start event and yet was 13th quickest overall. He beat many elite runners including all the Brits in that part of the race but then to go back to my previous point where do you draw the line of a professional in running?

    Getting paid enough to run that it's your main source of income (or derivatives from your running).
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,560
    ^ If that's the distinction then there's lots of sports where a non-pro can compete successfully , even triathlon. I had a builder do some work here a few years back, had been a mad-keen club triathlete and as an age-group amateur he finished Hawaii in well under 9 hours, beat a fair few "professional" racers home that year. That was while being married with 2 young kids and working full time building houses. No idea how he managed it all.
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  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,320
    natrix wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    natrix wrote:
    Banger racing

    Could you tell the difference between a top banger racer's banging compared to Joe's banger banging?

    First across the line is the winner. If the top racers get taken out then Joe could well win

    So Joe could be the best banger banger.

    That should kill the thread off.
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  • ^ If that's the distinction then there's lots of sports where a non-pro can compete successfully , even triathlon. I had a builder do some work here a few years back, had been a mad-keen club triathlete and as an age-group amateur he finished Hawaii in well under 9 hours, beat a fair few "professional" racers home that year. That was while being married with 2 young kids and working full time building houses. No idea how he managed it all.

    That's seriously swift. Only two AGers went under 9 hours this year.
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,560
    ^ If that's the distinction then there's lots of sports where a non-pro can compete successfully , even triathlon. I had a builder do some work here a few years back, had been a mad-keen club triathlete and as an age-group amateur he finished Hawaii in well under 9 hours, beat a fair few "professional" racers home that year. That was while being married with 2 young kids and working full time building houses. No idea how he managed it all.

    That's seriously swift. Only two AGers went under 9 hours this year.

    You had me thinking maybe he was being a bit loose with the facts. Gotta love the internet - I've just checked, and while he was still pretty damned good, apparently nowhere near the claimed times... lol. Seems he really meant to say well under *10* hours and beat home 2 or 3 of the pros.
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  • ^ If that's the distinction then there's lots of sports where a non-pro can compete successfully , even triathlon. I had a builder do some work here a few years back, had been a mad-keen club triathlete and as an age-group amateur he finished Hawaii in well under 9 hours, beat a fair few "professional" racers home that year. That was while being married with 2 young kids and working full time building houses. No idea how he managed it all.

    That's seriously swift. Only two AGers went under 9 hours this year.

    You had me thinking maybe he was being a bit loose with the facts. Gotta love the internet - I've just checked, and while he was still pretty damned good, apparently nowhere near the claimed times... lol. Seems he really meant to say well under *10* hours and beat home 2 or 3 of the pros.

    That makes sense - the pros have to qualify to get there too, so there's nobody slow. If they are doing 10 hours, they will probably have blown spectacularly on the run.
  • lostboysaint
    lostboysaint Posts: 4,250
    Pinno wrote:
    A scratch golfer is in the top 1% who play the game

    So what you are saying is that a scratch golfer is not an average 'Joe'. Agreed.
    Not quite accurate though, but whatever.

    The number of people who claim they "play golf" includes a vast number who turn up twice a year at most to a corporate booze-fest day with their mates, roll around in carts sculling beers and pretending they are interested in the game. They're actually alcoholics enjoying a drive without a breath-test in sight, but not really "golfers"... :D

    If you remove these muppets from the statistics to count proper golfers only, the actual percentage of scratch players is *much much* higher. It's actually not that difficult at all to get your handicap down to low single figures, and to get to scratch or better requires a bit of consistency and a bit more putting practice. That's it.

    Most players with a handicap under 5 will have shot rounds (well) under par off the stick plenty of times, so the gap between them and a pro is really not that great on any given day. Whether they could do it when the downhill 3 footer on the last is worth a million bucks is a different matter.

    You do realise that most pros retain a handicap for their home course and that the average on the US PGA is a fraction under +6 don't you!
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  • laurentian
    laurentian Posts: 2,385
    At the beggininng of September, I played in a Rugby Tournament in Colorado. In the semi final of the over 45s division, I found myself throwing in to a lineout with Dan Lyle (45 USA caps with 24 as captain, Bath and Leicester Tigers) and Luke Gross (62 USA caps) on the opposition - pretty impossible task to hit your own man!

    Anyway, we beat them and, although a longstanding and keen player, I am the rankest of amateurs when it comes to rugby.

    So perhaps not current pros but . . .
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  • mfin
    mfin Posts: 6,729
    Earlier on TV saw some of the Rugby League teams arriving for whatever they are competing in. I noted the Welsh team running out kitted up. What I don't understand is a bunch of them are fat f***s, I don't mean massively fat, but plain they they have a gut on them. I assume these are best of the best too, being in a national team.

    So, is it that it is simply advantageous to be fat because it means you're heavier? It must me this, because I can't believe a national team would be full of players who have no selfrecockingspect.

    If it is advantageous to be fat so that you can be heavier it is no wonder that drugs in rugby are so prevalent, making it easier for them to run carrying around that lard.

    American Football must be the same, because you get fat people playing that too.

    I've no problem with fat people by the way, none at all, it's just odd that in some sports you can be clearly fat and still be one of the best out there. These sports simply have to be the easiest to be competitive at for non pros, particularly as they are team games and skill levels are not ridiculously high.

    *Note, this wasn't just a Welsh thing, there were other teams but they were the ones I glimpsed on the TV.
  • lostboysaint
    lostboysaint Posts: 4,250
    You've not watched Sumo have you?!
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,585
    Being heavy in some sports is crucial.

    Ideally obviously you'd rather be 25 stone of pure muscle, but being 25 stone, of which 5 is fat, is better than being 22 stone of which 2 stone is fat.

    https://breakingmuscle.com/fitness/foot ... fit-or-fat