What sport/game does a joe vs pro stand the best chance?

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  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,858
    Pross wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    This does remind me somewhat of conversations about which musical instrument is 'the hardest'. They do vary quite considerably as to which are easier to sound 'good' on in the earlier stages, but they are all bloody hard to get good enough on to sound/be professional at the highest levels. As with sports, there's nowhere to hide when each of your performances will be scrutinised by the public, in real time.

    The answer to that is simple, voice is the most difficult instrument.
    The answer to that is simple: no it's not. Not easy either, of course.

    I forgot the :wink: but the main reason for saying that is sight reading. With other instruments, if you're a decent player and can read ahead you can pick the note but with voice you have to actually be able to pitch that note in your head. That said I could never play keyboard instruments as I just can't read two or more lines at the same time! I've also played enough brass to know a) I'm rubbish at it and b) the difficulty is getting your lip positions sorted rather that the valve combinations.
    I thought there might be a missing ;) at the end, but I'd have taken it seriously anyway. ( ;) )
    You also have to be able to pitch the note in your head on brass instruments, and it gets more important the higher you go, as the harmonics are closer (which is one reason the French horn is so difficult).

    With singing you can get by with no music theory whatsoever, or even have to read music, as there are no 'buttons' to press down to get the right notes. In fact, virtually no opera singers in the 1920s could read a note of music - they learnt it all orally/aurally. Also, singers don't have to learn scales in different keys: Happy Birthday is equally easy/difficult in any key, if you sing it, but on any other instrument you have to learn it afresh for each key.

    And if you need any more convincing: as a capable musician, I could reasonably easily do Grade 8 in singing with no lessons - not to say that I'd get a great mark (lack of good technique - that's where the real challenges lie), but I'd pass; Grade 8 on violin (for example) would be comical if I tried it - I think the examiner would be crying, either through laughter, or through horror of the noises emanating from the thing I was pretending to play.
  • mouth
    mouth Posts: 1,195
    Lagrange wrote:
    Mouth wrote:
    FishFish wrote:
    Fishing. Amateurs can beat the pros hands down - except the ones with trawlers. Amateurs can use dynamite and poison that the pros are banned from.

    So not a level playing field then? Surely they can't compete side by side in the same event under different rules?


    Why not? :mrgreen:


    Because L*nce Armstrong.
    The only disability in life is a poor attitude.
  • Pross wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    This does remind me somewhat of conversations about which musical instrument is 'the hardest'. They do vary quite considerably as to which are easier to sound 'good' on in the earlier stages, but they are all bloody hard to get good enough on to sound/be professional at the highest levels. As with sports, there's nowhere to hide when each of your performances will be scrutinised by the public, in real time.

    The answer to that is simple, voice is the most difficult instrument.
    The answer to that is simple: no it's not. Not easy either, of course.

    I forgot the :wink: but the main reason for saying that is sight reading. With other instruments, if you're a decent player and can read ahead you can pick the note but with voice you have to actually be able to pitch that note in your head. That said I could never play keyboard instruments as I just can't read two or more lines at the same time! I've also played enough brass to know a) I'm rubbish at it and b) the difficulty is getting your lip positions sorted rather that the valve combinations.
    I thought there might be a missing ;) at the end, but I'd have taken it seriously anyway. ( ;) )
    You also have to be able to pitch the note in your head on brass instruments, and it gets more important the higher you go, as the harmonics are closer (which is one reason the French horn is so difficult).

    With singing you can get by with no music theory whatsoever, or even have to read music, as there are no 'buttons' to press down to get the right notes. In fact, virtually no opera singers in the 1920s could read a note of music - they learnt it all orally/aurally. Also, singers don't have to learn scales in different keys: Happy Birthday is equally easy/difficult in any key, if you sing it, but on any other instrument you have to learn it afresh for each key.

    And if you need any more convincing: as a capable musician, I could reasonably easily do Grade 8 in singing with no lessons - not to say that I'd get a great mark (lack of good technique - that's where the real challenges lie), but I'd pass; Grade 8 on violin (for example) would be comical if I tried it - I think the examiner would be crying, either through laughter, or through horror of the noises emanating from the thing I was pretending to play.

    You don't need to be at all competent in music to "compete".
    Vocals: Lee Marvin for wandering star, took a whole lot of takes to get anything down.
    Any instrument or vocals at all: Sex pistols.
    You don't need talent in the music industry, in fact it is probably a hindrance.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,479
    Back on topic, rallying? OK it’s unlikely an amateur will beat a fully supported WRC works car but they can certainly beat non-works pro drivers especially when on home turf.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,320
    Pross wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Thi...time.

    The...instrument.
    The...course.

    I... combinations.
    I....play.

    If you are a really top class musician, you can play The Moonlight Sonata Happy Birthday:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf2NnqwzBYw
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    I used to ride with Chris Newton when he was home, and i considered myself a fit rider who had an evening job who was practically full time. He had class in spades, and the only rider i've seen do 4 hours around the sh!tty lanes of North Yorkshire and not have a speck on him.

    He once rode an event in which Biablocki was riding. He was off the back with another GB rider, I think Rod Ellingworth or Hayles, someone like that, and the peloton were gunning it in the crosswinds. They went past Biablocki who'd stopped for a pee. They thought they'd never see him again, until he came cruising up to them and intimated for them to jump on his wheel. They couldn't so much as hold it.

    Another time he rode the Pru Tour the year O'Grady won, and reckoned O'Grady was riding with a stinking hangover most days.

    The gulf between me, a fit rider (4.9w/kg ftp at my best ever) and Newton was huge in my eyes, and then again up to pro tour level must be enormous. Chris was no slouch and was top of the game domestically and on the track for a good few years, so by my reckoning, the chance of an "amatuer" cyclist who's maybe a 1st cat keeping up with the pros even on a flat stage is unlikely these days once the sprint trains start ramping up to mop up the breakaway.

    Love posts like this

    Need to know what that 4.9 w/kg is made up of though. Being tiny and having OK watts isn't helping anyone. And crosswinds catch out the worlds best as proved many times.

    But yes, Marcin was DEAD last at one point I think in the Giro this year and has a serious engine on him. But he's too big. Gap to very very good and best is staggering.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com