4DP. Discuss

135

Comments

  • murf1480
    murf1480 Posts: 117
    As anybody done the 1 week training program to get ready for the 4DP,or have you just got on with it.
  • w00dster
    w00dster Posts: 880
    I just cracked on with it. Did an easy week leading up to it, it was the week between Xmas and New Year so i rested up, did primers and a very easy 30 min spin the day before then the test.
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,600
    w00dster wrote:
    On the 4DP test I held back on the 5 min test because I know how painful the 20 min test is.

    It does say not to do that. They don't reduce your 20 minute power by 5% because they assume you went full on in the 5 minutes. It'll also affect your zones in the videos.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • w00dster
    w00dster Posts: 880
    gsk82 wrote:
    w00dster wrote:
    On the 4DP test I held back on the 5 min test because I know how painful the 20 min test is.

    It does say not to do that. They don't reduce your 20 minute power by 5% because they assume you went full on in the 5 minutes. It'll also affect your zones in the videos.

    Yeah agreed, with this being the first time I did cock up some of the test sections. I've been happy enough with the training this week, videos have all been very difficult but achievable, I'll probably retest again in two weeks. It's like the normal FTP test in that the first time you perform it you don't really know what to fully expect and how to pace things.
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,600
    w00dster wrote:
    gsk82 wrote:
    w00dster wrote:
    On the 4DP test I held back on the 5 min test because I know how painful the 20 min test is.

    It does say not to do that. They don't reduce your 20 minute power by 5% because they assume you went full on in the 5 minutes. It'll also affect your zones in the videos.

    Yeah agreed, with this being the first time I did fool up some of the test sections. I've been happy enough with the training this week, videos have all been very difficult but achievable, I'll probably retest again in two weeks. It's like the normal FTP test in that the first time you perform it you don't really know what to fully expect and how to pace things.

    I was thinking the same, so intended to do a test run a couple of weeks before. I didn't get around to it though.

    Can anyone tell me the benefits of the link with training peaks? I've signed up to have a look and have switched to a programme aimed ast improving sustained efforts. But other than the extra programmes I can't see any real benefit.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • stevie63
    stevie63 Posts: 481
    murf1480 wrote:
    As anybody done the 1 week training program to get ready for the 4DP,or have you just got on with it.
    I did the 1 week prep plan beforehand and was able to survive the test so I would say it’s worth doing.
  • deano802
    deano802 Posts: 67
    gsk82 wrote:
    w00dster wrote:
    gsk82 wrote:
    w00dster wrote:
    On the 4DP test I held back on the 5 min test because I know how painful the 20 min test is.

    It does say not to do that. They don't reduce your 20 minute power by 5% because they assume you went full on in the 5 minutes. It'll also affect your zones in the videos.

    Yeah agreed, with this being the first time I did fool up some of the test sections. I've been happy enough with the training this week, videos have all been very difficult but achievable, I'll probably retest again in two weeks. It's like the normal FTP test in that the first time you perform it you don't really know what to fully expect and how to pace things.

    I was thinking the same, so intended to do a test run a couple of weeks before. I didn't get around to it though.

    Can anyone tell me the benefits of the link with training peaks? I've signed up to have a look and have switched to a programme aimed ast improving sustained efforts. But other than the extra programmes I can't see any real benefit.

    I find the whole training peaks app so complicated, and I cannot get my head round a plan as I have all sorts of commitments and generally do a 4 hour group ride on a Sunday. I have done my 4dp and about 4 times a week when I have time I jump on and pick a workout. I am really enjoying erg mode if you can call it enjoying! Omnium killed me yesterday.
  • w00dster
    w00dster Posts: 880
    Yeah Omnium is a tough one, I didn't manage to complete it at 100%, on the watt bike there is no erg mode, I have to manually change resistance. (if that's what erg mode does!?)
    Also finding the training plans difficult to stick with. I travel on business 2 or 3 days /nights a week. To help with the training I joined a multinational gym that uses stages spin bikes (with power meters and cadence sensors) plus watt bikes. My local gym is really good with about 7 watt bikes that all seem to be set up well with no disparity in power, the stages bikes are really good and have sufferfest running every few hours on the big screen for drop by sessions. But when travelling the two gyms I've been to this year have old watt bikes, only in both clubs all of them have been unserviceable. Tonight the saddle was broken and wouldn't lower with a sign saying they have logged a fault. Complaint lodged but it's very frustrating. I tried to train on one of the "bikes" with a TV screen but the position was awful, almost felt like I was stood up.
  • murf1480
    murf1480 Posts: 117
    Did the 1 week training program before I did the test can’t say if it helped or not though.
    My numbers for the test are.

    5 sec: 961
    1 min: 451
    5 min: 370
    20 min: 295
    My rider type is a Time Triallist
  • bobones
    bobones Posts: 1,215
    I did the test yesterday without doing the week long preparation plan and it went well enough. I had put off doing the test because I never felt properly rested or prepared, but after a relatively light week on the turbo, a couple of solid group rides at the weekend, and a day off on Monday, I thought I may as well just give it a go.

    I was given a rider type of climber, which was a surprise, but I was not shocked that the test confirmed my very poor sprint. According to some charts, I am cat 2/3 level on 5 and 20 minute but almost untrained on 5 sec and 1 minute.

    I always thought that I just didn't have the raw power (FTP) to stay with the fast/racing guys in bunch training rides so tended to opt for the steadier rides to avoid getting dropped, but I'm now wondering if I can improve my 1 minute power to cope with surges and attacks that they throw in, I might just be able to keep with them?

    Age: 53 Ht: 5'11 Wt: 70 kg Max HR: 192 LTHR: 174 5s: 752 1m: 458 5m: 363 20m: 291 Type: Climber

    Now I'm trying to decide whether to follow a 10 or 3 week plan or just pick workouts that focus on 5s and 1m power when I'm doing turbo work. Any thoughts? I ride around 9-12 hours per week 6 days out of 7. I am not interested in racing or time trials and only goals to become a stronger rider and to try to avoid getting dropped in the "A" group rides.
  • stevie63
    stevie63 Posts: 481
    The plan to follow then would be one of the sufferfest plans on Traingpeaks that works on your weakness. These can be found here:

    https://www.trainingpeaks.com/the-sufferfest.HTML
  • dannbodge
    dannbodge Posts: 1,152
    Do you have to do the 4DP test to get a rider style?

    I've already got my 5s, 1 min, 5 min and 20min power from a previous test and don't necessarily want to do the test.

    My powers are:
    5s - 832w
    1 min - 406w
    5 min - 292w
    20 min - 244w
  • Mapaputsi
    Mapaputsi Posts: 104
    I'm intrigued by this test (despite earlier misgivings). Use trainerroad at them moment but is it possible to do a free trial just to do the 4DP test and then cancel your subscription?
  • deano802
    deano802 Posts: 67
    Mapaputsi wrote:
    I'm intrigued by this test (despite earlier misgivings). Use trainerroad at them moment but is it possible to do a free trial just to do the 4DP test and then cancel your subscription?

    I think it is, but once you do a couple of videos I think you will love it.
  • stevie63
    stevie63 Posts: 481
    Dannbodge wrote:
    Do you have to do the 4DP test to get a rider style?

    I've already got my 5s, 1 min, 5 min and 20min power from a previous test and don't necessarily want to do the test.

    My powers are:
    5s - 832w
    1 min - 406w
    5 min - 292w
    20 min - 244w
    You do have to do the test because the key with it is your figures are not your all time bests but the best you can manage in a single test. For example the 1 minute comes at the end so it will be lower than if you did a 1 minute in isolation.
  • bobones
    bobones Posts: 1,215
    Dannbodge wrote:
    Do you have to do the 4DP test to get a rider style?

    I've already got my 5s, 1 min, 5 min and 20min power from a previous test and don't necessarily want to do the test.

    My powers are:
    5s - 832w
    1 min - 406w
    5 min - 292w
    20 min - 244w
    You can certainly manually input these figures to your rider profile in the app and they will be used to personalise the intervals in video workouts, but I am not sure if it will generate or update your rider type.
  • dannbodge
    dannbodge Posts: 1,152
    stevie63 wrote:
    You do have to do the test because the key with it is your figures are not your all time bests but the best you can manage in a single test. For example the 1 minute comes at the end so it will be lower than if you did a 1 minute in isolation.

    bobones wrote:
    You can certainly manually input these figures to your rider profile in the app and they will be used to personalise the intervals in video workouts, but I am not sure if it will generate or update your rider type.

    When I get my Flux back, I'll get on the free trial and do the test. Thanks anyway
  • jlloyd
    jlloyd Posts: 131
    Dannbodge wrote:
    stevie63 wrote:
    You do have to do the test because the key with it is your figures are not your all time bests but the best you can manage in a single test. For example the 1 minute comes at the end so it will be lower than if you did a 1 minute in isolation.

    bobones wrote:
    You can certainly manually input these figures to your rider profile in the app and they will be used to personalise the intervals in video workouts, but I am not sure if it will generate or update your rider type.

    When I get my Flux back, I'll get on the free trial and do the test. Thanks anyway

    If you subscribe to veloviewer (£10 per year) you get a free 2 month trial on Sufferfest.
  • dannbodge
    dannbodge Posts: 1,152
    JLloyd wrote:
    Dannbodge wrote:
    stevie63 wrote:
    You do have to do the test because the key with it is your figures are not your all time bests but the best you can manage in a single test. For example the 1 minute comes at the end so it will be lower than if you did a 1 minute in isolation.

    bobones wrote:
    You can certainly manually input these figures to your rider profile in the app and they will be used to personalise the intervals in video workouts, but I am not sure if it will generate or update your rider type.

    When I get my Flux back, I'll get on the free trial and do the test. Thanks anyway

    If you subscribe to veloviewer (£10 per year) you get a free 2 month trial on Sufferfest.

    That's the plan!
    Already got veloviewer sub so just waiting to sign up to sufferfest.
  • StillGoing
    StillGoing Posts: 5,211
    Did the test yesterday evening and if you've followed the on screen directions for the 2 x 5s sprints and 5m hard as you can, the 20m FTP is a killer if you're giving it everything. I was quite surprised with my rider profile which has me down as a sprinter, definitely not what I considered my strong point. But, I'll follow the structured plan for my indicated weakness (Vo2) and see how it improves things in 10 weeks.

    I did the test after a couple of weeks of short tempo sessions on Zwift, returning from a winter of couch land. I found the instructions easy to follow and the audio warnings for each phase were clear.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    I completed the test yesterday, but was disappointed to see "One or more power best (4DP) values to calculate Rider Stats were invalid" so it didn't create my profile. I was set up for virtual power. Frustrating because now I have to take the test again, and I'm not fully confident that it will work so I might be wasting my time. Now, I'm currently using it for free thanks to VeloViewer, but if it proves difficult to work out my profile then I won't be carrying on to pay once my free access expires...
  • StillGoing
    StillGoing Posts: 5,211
    JoeNobody wrote:
    I completed the test yesterday, but was disappointed to see "One or more power best (4DP) values to calculate Rider Stats were invalid" so it didn't create my profile. I was set up for virtual power. Frustrating because now I have to take the test again, and I'm not fully confident that it will work so I might be wasting my time. Now, I'm currently using it for free thanks to VeloViewer, but if it proves difficult to work out my profile then I won't be carrying on to pay once my free access expires...

    You say using virtual power; does that mean you had it in ERG mode? If so, that might be why it didn't work. For Full Frontal you need to switch off ERG mode and ride it as a dumb trainer.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    philthy3 wrote:
    You say using virtual power; does that mean you had it in ERG mode? If so, that might be why it didn't work. For Full Frontal you need to switch off ERG mode and ride it as a dumb trainer.
    No - dumb trainer with speed sensor :wink:
  • StillGoing
    StillGoing Posts: 5,211
    Odd then. Maybe it lost connection at some points or calibration wasn't correct?
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    I'm inclined to give it another go, but if it fails again then I'll probably ditch it.
  • StillGoing
    StillGoing Posts: 5,211
    JoeNobody wrote:
    I'm inclined to give it another go, but if it fails again then I'll probably ditch it.

    Why not contact them at Sufferfest and ask them what might be the cause first? They're pretty good with responses. I've just flummoxed them with a medical question around a vascular issue and any effects on Vo2. They got back to me within 24 hrs and although didn't know the answer, they have said they're going to explore it further after consulting with medical experts.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    philthy3 wrote:
    Why not contact them at Sufferfest and ask them what might be the cause first?
    You mean try to find the solution, rather than just moaning about it? What kind of nonsense is that :? :lol:

    I'll give it a go :)
  • StillGoing
    StillGoing Posts: 5,211
    JoeNobody wrote:
    philthy3 wrote:
    Why not contact them at Sufferfest and ask them what might be the cause first?
    You mean try to find the solution, rather than just moaning about it? What kind of nonsense is that :? :lol:

    I'll give it a go :)

    I had a slight issue doing Cadence Builds last night. For the max sprints I was well in the upper 160rpm, but the on screen link was showing 45-60 at times. I suspect that either the BTE signal was intermittent or the software was struggling.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    philthy3 wrote:
    I had a slight issue doing Cadence Builds last night. For the max sprints I was well in the upper 160rpm, but the on screen link was showing 45-60 at times. I suspect that either the BTE signal was intermittent or the software was struggling.
    I got a prompt response suggesting that it was probably to do with lack of speed data. It's highly likely that the wheel magnet for my sensor was in the wrong place - sensor was connected/recognised as it's a GSC10, but no magnet meant no data. I think it's fixed now. Certainly I'm getting speed data on my Garmin. I didn't think to double check before adjusting the magnet. Anyway, it's Full Frontal, The Re-up for me tonight :shock:
  • StillGoing
    StillGoing Posts: 5,211
    Way to go, you'll hate it! :-D I tried to do Mini Blender this morning, but things are playing up still despite a strong BTE signal. After trying to get things going three times, I gave up.

    I was profiled as a sprinter, but I'm carrying a bit of winter excess still at the moment. Oddly, when my fighting weight is compared with the same scores (which would obviously increase the w/kg result) I come out as a climber. Go figure? I might try and do the individual tests and plot them myself to see what it gives. A 5s and 5m test and a 1m and 20m test the following day after periods of warm up.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.

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