Vuelta 2017:Stage 15: Alcal la Real - Sierra Nevada. Alto Hoya de la Mora. Monachil 129.4Kms *Spoile

135

Comments

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,031
    Lopez up to 6th. A podium is a distinct possibility. My GC pick not looking so bad after all.
  • yourpaceormine
    yourpaceormine Posts: 1,245
    According to the on screen graphic...
    "Contador glorious looser"
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,444
    yourpaceormine wrote:
    According to the on screen graphic...
    "Contador glorious looser"
    Haha I was just about to post that... What's he been loosing? Spanish bulls?
  • Bo Duke
    Bo Duke Posts: 1,058
    TT next up on Tuesday after tomorrows rest day. Big day for Froomie....
    'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP
  • Bo Duke
    Bo Duke Posts: 1,058
    Lopez and Moscon are the future, Quintana and Aru clearly doesn't have what it takes.
    'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP
  • hypster
    hypster Posts: 1,229
    Again, I don't understand Froome passing up the chance to put real time into his rivals. By his own admission he took it easy on yesterday's stage to save something for today. By my reckoning he took things even easier today.

    Sky soft-pedaled for 10km and let Lopez get a 90 second lead at one point. Nibali clearly didn't have anything at the end. Froome could have taken that stage today and had the rest day and ITT to come. Every time he takes his foot off the gas something bad happens like the seemingly innocuous stage 12.
  • tim000
    tim000 Posts: 718
    hypster wrote:
    Again, I don't understand Froome passing up the chance to put real time into his rivals. By his own admission he took it easy on yesterday's stage to save something for today. By my reckoning he took things even easier today.

    Sky soft-pedaled for 10km and let Lopez get a 90 second lead at one point. Nibali clearly didn't have anything at the end. Froome could have taken that stage today and had the rest day and ITT to come. Every time he takes his foot off the gas something bad happens like the seemingly innocuous stage 12.
    he`s 1 minute up and is the best TTer . he`s not the one who need to attack
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
    hypster wrote:
    Again, I don't understand Froome passing up the chance to put real time into his rivals. By his own admission he took it easy on yesterday's stage to save something for today. By my reckoning he took things even easier today.

    Sky soft-pedaled for 10km and let Lopez get a 90 second lead at one point. Nibali clearly didn't have anything at the end. Froome could have taken that stage today and had the rest day and ITT to come. Every time he takes his foot off the gas something bad happens like the seemingly innocuous stage 12.

    It's not about Froome taking time he probably won't need, it's about protecting his team for the finale week.

    How much time will he take on Tuesday from Lopez and co?

    PROFIL.png

    Superman will probably lose between three to four times the amount he gained today.
    Nibali will be struggle to keep it to within a minute and change.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • slim_boy_fat
    slim_boy_fat Posts: 1,810
    hypster wrote:
    Again, I don't understand Froome passing up the chance to put real time into his rivals. By his own admission he took it easy on yesterday's stage to save something for today. By my reckoning he took things even easier today.

    Sky soft-pedaled for 10km and let Lopez get a 90 second lead at one point. Nibali clearly didn't have anything at the end. Froome could have taken that stage today and had the rest day and ITT to come. Every time he takes his foot off the gas something bad happens like the seemingly innocuous stage 12.
    He had an 'easy' day, is further ahead than he was this morning, has a rest day tomorrow and his best chance to put time into the others the day after that with almost zero risk. What is it you don't understand?
  • hypster
    hypster Posts: 1,229
    We'll see...
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    I wanted to watch this stage because I know this climb, although now glad I couldn't as it didn't seem to offer anything exciting, even the crowd looked underwhelmed from what footage I have caught. Looked like I didn't miss much.

    On the plus side I had the best meal ever in Granada, pork cheeks in a madeira and sage sauce. So good I went back and ate it again the next night. I've been trying to reproduce it for years with no luck.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • Mountains09
    Mountains09 Posts: 23
    hypster wrote:
    Again, I don't understand Froome passing up the chance to put real time into his rivals. By his own admission he took it easy on yesterday's stage to save something for today. By my reckoning he took things even easier today.

    Sky soft-pedaled for 10km and let Lopez get a 90 second lead at one point. Nibali clearly didn't have anything at the end. Froome could have taken that stage today and had the rest day and ITT to come. Every time he takes his foot off the gas something bad happens like the seemingly innocuous stage 12.

    There was no need to attack and go after Lopez or try and put time into Nibali, he's already ahead of him. He had two teammates with him and on a long climb that was crucial. It might have looked like an "easy" day but that was the second of two bastard hard stages so will still have taken a fair effort. You have to remember he's coming in from the tour so has to make calculations about burning up energy going into the last week. There's no need for heroic rides at this stage unless absolutely necessary. Besides, he knows the TT is Tuesday where there's an opportunity to out time into everyone.

    The way sky road today made perfect sense to me.
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,127
    hypster wrote:
    Great ride again by Lopez. Shame about Simon Yates though. All this GC racing inside the final few hundred metres for a few bonus seconds on the line is getting boring though.

    Oh for the days of POE fueled madness eh?
    BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,605
    hypster wrote:
    Again, I don't understand Froome passing up the chance to put real time into his rivals. By his own admission he took it easy on yesterday's stage to save something for today. By my reckoning he took things even easier today.

    Sky soft-pedaled for 10km and let Lopez get a 90 second lead at one point. Nibali clearly didn't have anything at the end. Froome could have taken that stage today and had the rest day and ITT to come. Every time he takes his foot off the gas something bad happens like the seemingly innocuous stage 12.

    Froome understands what his body and those of his rivals are capable of, he left Nibali to 'attack' knowing he could hold him and let it come back and likewise he knows that pushing himself into the red at that sort of altitude could end up with him losing time. In the end he's gained time over the weekend without pushing himself too much and his rivals have burned a few matches before the TT where Froome must be favourite to extend his lead. Froome has become very tactically astute and knows when / when not to expend efforts. It might not be exciting to watch but it's effective, he also has a stage win to his name and I wouldn't be surprised to see him get another on the Angliru.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,605
    Fantastic ride by Lopez, he looks like the most likely successor to Froome as I believe he can TT a bit too? Has he been back home while recovering from his injuries? If so I guess there's no real surprise that he went so well once they went above 2000m. Zakarin was a bit of a surprise, looks terrible on the bike though. Nice to see Wilco hitting form too.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,605
    gsk82 wrote:
    I've stayed I to watch this :roll:

    I thought it was a savage climb but guess not

    It's savage but in ways you can't see which is unfortunate from a TV point of view. Just walking at those altitudes gets tough and the riders lungs will have been burning as well as their legs. It becomes attritional but watching all we see is a long, gradual drag that we don't really relate with being tough and so you get people saying 'I don't understand why rider x didn't try to attack'. When we see the Angliru we can see that the gradients make it a challenge just to turn the pedals and are more understanding - they're both very tough climbs but probably suit different types of physiology.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    davidof wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    Great ride again by Lopez. Shame about Simon Yates though. All this GC racing inside the final few hundred metres for a few bonus seconds on the line is getting boring though.

    Oh for the days of POE fueled madness eh?

    It was Adam Yates as it happens.

    Great ride by Superman, although he will lose plenty of time in the ITT one would think. It'd be different if it was uphill.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    hypster wrote:
    Great ride again by Lopez. Shame about Simon Yates though. All this GC racing inside the final few hundred metres for a few bonus seconds on the line is getting boring though.

    Starting to dawn on you :lol:

    Sky kill the racing and Frome is boring as hell, your right in your later post, he could dominate and be 5mins up tbh i d prefer this instead the just in time racing he gives us.
    How he and his team never have a bad day is a mystery, its certainly other teams need to be able to do.

    Hats off to yates though and contador, would be watching paint dry otherwise.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
    Last year's Tour du Suisse ITT:-

    1.Izagirre Ion Movistar Team84721:31
    2.López Miguel Ángel Astana Pro Team 0:18
    3.Cancellara Fabian Trek - Segafredo0:19
    4.Kelderman Wilco Team LottoNL-Jumbo1 0:21
    5.Talansky Andrew Cannondale Pro Cycling Team1 0:23
    6.Castroviejo Jonathan Movistar Team 20:24
    7.Pantano Jarlinson IAM Cycling 0:25
    8.Matthews Michael Orica GreenEDGE ,,
    9.Thomas Geraint Team Sky 0:33
    10.van Garderen Tejay BMC Racing Team 0:34

    On this:-
    Stage-1457003636.png
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,444
    mamba80 wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    Great ride again by Lopez. Shame about Simon Yates though. All this GC racing inside the final few hundred metres for a few bonus seconds on the line is getting boring though.

    Starting to dawn on you :lol:

    Sky kill the racing and Frome is boring as hell, your right in your later post, he could dominate and be 5mins up tbh i d prefer this instead the just in time racing he gives us.
    How he and his team never have a bad day is a mystery, its certainly other teams need to be able to do.

    Hats off to yates though and contador, would be watching paint dry otherwise.
    Contador's attack was a waste of everyone's time, it didn't add anything to the race and the outcome was inevitable as soon as he went.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    Great ride again by Lopez. Shame about Simon Yates though. All this GC racing inside the final few hundred metres for a few bonus seconds on the line is getting boring though.

    Starting to dawn on you :lol:

    Sky kill the racing and Frome is boring as hell, your right in your later post, he could dominate and be 5mins up tbh i d prefer this instead the just in time racing he gives us.
    How he and his team never have a bad day is a mystery, its certainly other teams need to be able to do.

    Hats off to yates though and contador, would be watching paint dry otherwise.
    Contador's attack was a waste of everyone's time, it didn't add anything to the race and the outcome was inevitable as soon as he went.

    Apart from Lopez going with him and winning the race you mean?
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,576
    Good to see you posting, Joelsim.

    I was thinking you'd be pleased earlier when Lopez was putting everyone to the sword. Again. He's some talent.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,444
    Joelsim wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    Great ride again by Lopez. Shame about Simon Yates though. All this GC racing inside the final few hundred metres for a few bonus seconds on the line is getting boring though.

    Starting to dawn on you :lol:

    Sky kill the racing and Frome is boring as hell, your right in your later post, he could dominate and be 5mins up tbh i d prefer this instead the just in time racing he gives us.
    How he and his team never have a bad day is a mystery, its certainly other teams need to be able to do.

    Hats off to yates though and contador, would be watching paint dry otherwise.
    Contador's attack was a waste of everyone's time, it didn't add anything to the race and the outcome was inevitable as soon as he went.

    Apart from Lopez going with him and winning the race you mean?

    Lopez did most of the work once they got away, if Contador hadn't attacked Lopez would still have gone.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    Pross wrote:
    Froome understands what his body and those of his rivals are capable of, he left Nibali to 'attack' knowing he could hold him and let it come back and likewise he knows that pushing himself into the red at that sort of altitude could end up with him losing time. In the end he's gained time over the weekend without pushing himself too much and his rivals have burned a few matches before the TT where Froome must be favourite to extend his lead. Froome has become very tactically astute and knows when / when not to expend efforts. It might not be exciting to watch but it's effective, he also has a stage win to his name and I wouldn't be surprised to see him get another on the Angliru.


    Not necessarily disagreeing but it doesn't require tactical genius when you have that team and as an individual you can pretty much match anyone else in any given day.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,605
    The tactical awareness is more in not chasing everyone that attacks. Most over GC riders see a rival go and automatically try to follow. It's a bit tedious to watch but in the majority of cases he manages to gain a few seconds here and there.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,605
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Last year's Tour du Suisse ITT:-

    1.Izagirre Ion Movistar Team84721:31
    2.López Miguel Ángel Astana Pro Team 0:18
    3.Cancellara Fabian Trek - Segafredo0:19
    4.Kelderman Wilco Team LottoNL-Jumbo1 0:21
    5.Talansky Andrew Cannondale Pro Cycling Team1 0:23
    6.Castroviejo Jonathan Movistar Team 20:24
    7.Pantano Jarlinson IAM Cycling 0:25
    8.Matthews Michael Orica GreenEDGE ,,
    9.Thomas Geraint Team Sky 0:33
    10.van Garderen Tejay BMC Racing Team 0:34

    On this:-
    Stage-1457003636.png

    I thought I remembered him having a good TT. Couldn't understand why people were saying he was going to ship a bundle of time. He's also very fresh in comparison to everyone else and just racing himself into form.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
    Joelsim wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    Great ride again by Lopez. Shame about Simon Yates though. All this GC racing inside the final few hundred metres for a few bonus seconds on the line is getting boring though.

    Starting to dawn on you :lol:

    Sky kill the racing and Frome is boring as hell, your right in your later post, he could dominate and be 5mins up tbh i d prefer this instead the just in time racing he gives us.
    How he and his team never have a bad day is a mystery, its certainly other teams need to be able to do.

    Hats off to yates though and contador, would be watching paint dry otherwise.
    Contador's attack was a waste of everyone's time, it didn't add anything to the race and the outcome was inevitable as soon as he went.

    Apart from Lopez going with him and winning the race you mean?

    I'm sure that was all part of Contador's master plan, along with a bit of.

    5eda16707acce3a0630e591d1bd8c4bf.gif
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    andyp wrote:
    Good to see you posting, Joelsim.

    I was thinking you'd be pleased earlier when Lopez was putting everyone to the sword. Again. He's some talent.

    Aye, very pleased.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Froome understands what his body and those of his rivals are capable of, he left Nibali to 'attack' knowing he could hold him and let it come back and likewise he knows that pushing himself into the red at that sort of altitude could end up with him losing time. In the end he's gained time over the weekend without pushing himself too much and his rivals have burned a few matches before the TT where Froome must be favourite to extend his lead. Froome has become very tactically astute and knows when / when not to expend efforts. It might not be exciting to watch but it's effective, he also has a stage win to his name and I wouldn't be surprised to see him get another on the Angliru.


    Not necessarily disagreeing but it doesn't require tactical genius when you have that team and as an individual you can pretty much match anyone else in any given day.

    Froome hasn't won much without his ITT superiority for a while now. If you look at recent GTs, without that dominance he's no better than the other main contenders. He does know how to restrict his losses when he's not got the legs though.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Pross wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Last year's Tour du Suisse ITT:-

    1.Izagirre Ion Movistar Team84721:31
    2.López Miguel Ángel Astana Pro Team 0:18
    3.Cancellara Fabian Trek - Segafredo0:19
    4.Kelderman Wilco Team LottoNL-Jumbo1 0:21
    5.Talansky Andrew Cannondale Pro Cycling Team1 0:23
    6.Castroviejo Jonathan Movistar Team 20:24
    7.Pantano Jarlinson IAM Cycling 0:25
    8.Matthews Michael Orica GreenEDGE ,,
    9.Thomas Geraint Team Sky 0:33
    10.van Garderen Tejay BMC Racing Team 0:34

    On this:-
    Stage-1457003636.png

    I thought I remembered him having a good TT. Couldn't understand why people were saying he was going to ship a bundle of time. He's also very fresh in comparison to everyone else and just racing himself into form.


    That's pretty much the only great ITT he's done though. I'll be surprised if he doesn't lose over 2 mins to the dawg tomorrow.

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