TDF 2017: 22nd July - Stage 20 - Marseille - Marseille 22.5kms *Spoilers*
Comments
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This is elite professional sport. The teams and athletes involved are there to win. Vast amounts of money, time and resources are at stake. They will do this in as an efficient, ruthless and calculated way as possible within the rules, often pushing them to breaking point.
Some people seem to have a rather romanticised view of things.0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:Ah I see the usual comments criticising anyone who dares to call a grand tour boring have started.
Look, some grand tours are boring, just because some people found this one so doesn't mean they have never enjoyed a race in their life. I'd give this Tour maybe a 4 out of 10, good in places but promised without ever really delivering. I think I gave the Giro an 8. If you think every race is great I'll have some of whatever your doctor prescribed you.
I would tend to agree but a lot of people we anticipating a boring Tour when the parcours was announced. I think another problem was the relatively early attrition and the loss of Porte, Sagan and Cavandish who would have undoubtably spiced things up a bit more.
I think also a lot of people were turned off by the strange decisions of the commissaires, certainly I was.0 -
Nibs should be riding it, Contador was going to wait and see how his form was after the Tour, other than that I'm not sure.Salsiccia1 wrote:Slim Boy Fat wrote:He said at the start of the third week that he was feeling exactly how he planned to feel at that stage of the race. He' also planning to do the Vuelta, which he reiterated today. So maybe it's all a plan to be a little undercooked for the TdF to ensure a decent crack at the Vuelta. Then again that might all be complete BS
I think there's something in that. Who's he up against in the Vuelta?0 -
Pross wrote:Ah, the annual 'boring Tour' comments have started I see. It's usually 'boring' due to Froome and Sky dominating from the first mountain stage. This year the podium places were changing hands on the last real stage and a minor mishap could have resulted in the lead changing but yes it was still 'boring'. I really don't get why people watch or when they saw a Tour that was exciting.
With hindsight, Froome restricting Landa's time gains earlier in the race are looking even more of a wrong decision especially given how much time the apparently dangerous Quintana shipped (I appreciate that couldn't been known at the time).
Bardet really needs to be prepared to risk all next year, he's got two podiums to his name so may as well go s*it or bust for the win.
I agree, it hasn't been a great Tour. More diverting than exciting. And as close as it's been I think the ASO got the parcours wrong - not enough mountain finishes, having too selective stage a so early on. If they wanted to build a course for Bardet they should have had more high mountains and a mountain time trial, and not on the last but one day.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
reallyarunner wrote:hypster wrote:reallyarunner wrote:So Froome wins the tour without winning a stage. Says it all really.
Yes, it says he finished all stages of the Tour consistently faster than anyone else.
Kittel won five stages, where did it get him other than A&E?
It also says it was the dullest and least deserving tour win of the last decade.
Err, were you around last year? or 2012?0 -
TailWindHome wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Usually on the champs they make 3km to go the final line for GC, so they can faff about for the pictures before anyone gets too excited.
Pretty sure that's not right. IIRC Froome lost time in 2015 faffing about for an arms linked photo.
The question would be just how big a gap would need to be before the jury gave Landa a second
Definitely did do it last year.0 -
Grand Tours are never boring. The general classification usually is.
I think the problem this year is that the top three were too close, so it never came to the boil because nobody could land a knock-out blow in the sort of exciting, cathartic moment that sticks in the memory. A couple of digs on the Izoard that came to nothing and a couple of short TTs more or less decided it. The parcours delivered fairly close racing, but came unstuck by having closely matched participants.
Also, there's already a fair bit of revisionism around Aru. Don't forget that he was seen as a massive threat right up until he got worked over by everyone else. If there had only been one of Uran, Bardet or Froome the battle against Aru would have been seen as defining this race.0 -
You do feel more generally, that it's only really Froome who's the heavyweight GC guy.
I mean, I know results make for champions, and you gotta start somewhere, but Bardet & Uran don't feel like top top heavyweight GC guys.
I mean, Froome would normally knock those guys both uphill and in the TT. Bardet - fine, he was younger in the past so he's had time to get stronger - but Uran? Come on. The guy would have bitten off your hand for a top 5 going into the thing.
Quintana? He never really felt like the real deal. Can only really out climb Froome when Froome is ill and even then he can't TT al that well.
It feels a bit like the '04 Tour, only without Froome knocking out 4 stage wins in 5 days in week 3. Just no real competition.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:reallyarunner wrote:hypster wrote:reallyarunner wrote:So Froome wins the tour without winning a stage. Says it all really.
Yes, it says he finished all stages of the Tour consistently faster than anyone else.
Kittel won five stages, where did it get him other than A&E?
It also says it was the dullest and least deserving tour win of the last decade.
Err, were you around last year? or 2012?
Yes, I was in Chartres in 2012. I'm genuinely surprised at how nobody seems bothered that the tour winner can't manage to win a stage.When a true genius appears in this world, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift0 -
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He made it round in less total time than anyone else. That's all he had to do.reallyarunner wrote:Yes, I was in Chartres in 2012. I'm genuinely surprised at how nobody seems bothered that the tour winner can't manage to win a stage.0 -
reallyarunner wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:reallyarunner wrote:hypster wrote:reallyarunner wrote:So Froome wins the tour without winning a stage. Says it all really.
Yes, it says he finished all stages of the Tour consistently faster than anyone else.
Kittel won five stages, where did it get him other than A&E?
It also says it was the dullest and least deserving tour win of the last decade.
Err, were you around last year? or 2012?
Yes, I was in Chartres in 2012. I'm genuinely surprised at how nobody seems bothered that the tour winner can't manage to win a stage.
I don't think manage comes into it. For Froome it was about using energy wisely on a parcours that didn't suit his strengths.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
I'll stick my neck out and say I think it's been a good Tour. Who the winner is and whether they win stages or not isn't what makes it good.
We had unexpected GC action on flat stages. A podium fight till the end, aggressive and unexpected riding from AG2R, a great KOM winner and battling green jersey fight. A real shame about Porte but I enjoyed the rest,0 -
Tell more! Is Martin one of them? When did he ride for British cycling?RichN95 wrote:Five of the top seven on GC have ridden for Sky or British Cycling at some point in their careers.0 -
If anyone thinks that was a boring tour then we must have watched different races.0
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Whilst I am not a fan of "The British By Convenience" Froome, Konta, The American Sprinter, The England cricket team and a few of the rugger buggers as well I have to say the boy can ride a bike.0
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Rick Chasey wrote:I mean, I know results make for champions, and you gotta start somewhere, but Bardet & Uran don't feel like top top heavyweight GC guys......
...Quintana? He never really felt like the real deal. Can only really out climb Froome when Froome is ill and even then he can't TT al that well.
Agree with the first point, Bardet is getting there but they need to win maybe another grand tour to really feel like genuine rivals rather than hopefuls.
On Quintana though I disagree, maybe I'm still clinging on to his early promise but I reckon Quintana is a future TdF winner and the one most likely to win in 2018 if it isn't Froome again.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
inseine wrote:
Tell more! Is Martin one of them? When did he ride for British cycling?RichN95 wrote:Five of the top seven on GC have ridden for Sky or British Cycling at some point in their careers.
Brummie isn't he, only rode for Ireland because the BC focus on track didn't suit a rider like him.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
underlayunderlay wrote:Grand Tours are never boring. The general classification usually is.
This. GTs are a spectacle, the magic and wonder isn't all in the GC. :roll:Correlation is not causation.0 -
If you found this boring, you're gonna find most tours boring, so why bother watching? It's like moaning that baked beans are boring when your favourite food is baked beans on toast.
Listening to boring people ironically moaning that the race is boring is funny though.
If you don't like it then change the channel and don't watch it f**kwits.0 -
inseine wrote:I'll stick my neck out and say I think it's been a good Tour. Who the winner is and whether they win stages or not isn't what makes it good.
We had unexpected GC action on flat stages. A podium fight till the end, aggressive and unexpected riding from AG2R, a great KOM winner and battling green jersey fight. A real shame about Porte but I enjoyed the rest,
Yeah, I've enjoyed most of it. One or two too many flat sprint stages for me early on. I don't agree with the majority about MTFs, they too produce a one dimensional race too often. Some of the best racing has been (and always is) over the medium mountain stages and the high ones without a MTF. You know with the latter items it's going to be 150km of conservatism with a straight shoot out up one climb. If less MTFs means closer time gaps on GC then that's all good in my book.
Every tour is going to have some people who don't like it, and some people don't seem to like any tour. I can relate to people finding it boring, I did for a time: I've been watching since '84 but fell out of love with cycle racing in the late 90s/2000 ish - it was just too suspicious, big blokes like Riis and green jersey types like Jaja suddenly going up mountains like Herrera. So I stopped watching for about 7-8 years
Since I came back to it, I haven't been bored at all. Even in 2012. So if you're a bit jaded by the Tour, I just recommend giving it a miss for a bit, you'll come back refreshed0 -
The last week was good, but the most part of the first two weeks were dull. Not too dissimilar to the Giro in that sense. A general lack of variety in the transitional stages. Not a patch on 2012 in terms of dullness, IMO.
One thing I think the ASO have definitely got right is the intermediate sprints. Time and again we're seeing the inferior sprinter attack in the early mountains.0 -
Also, Bora are building a decent team even outside Sagan. McCarthy, Buchmann and the Austrian contingent all improving steadily.
Now we just have to see Herklotz- top prospect circa 2012-13 - realise that potential.0 -
There isn't a thread for today's stage yet, so I'll leave the thought here - when Landa manages to nick a couple of seconds as part of Sky's marvellous "hearts and minds" media campaign, what are the jury going to take it off him for?0
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I wonder if SKY haven't decided that, even if it were possible, it's not worth the backlash they'll get from some of the French public. SDB has talked about winning with a French rider. This would kill any French good will just to put a rider who's leaving on the podium.underlayunderlay wrote:There isn't a thread for today's stage yet, so I'll leave the thought here - when Landa manages to nick a couple of seconds as part of Sky's marvellous "hearts and minds" media campaign, what are the jury going to take it off him for?0 -
The TdF never lives up to expectations. But then what do we expect? Fireworks on every stage, panache by the bucket load, a GC race that is wide open with the lead changing hands on a regular basis. It's not going to happen. Even when the race was seemingly wide open once the Tedious Texan stepped down it never happened *. But then our expectations are probably pretty unrealistic.
So what did we get this year? A pretty good race. Some dull moments but some pretty exciting racing. GC that was close in seconds, favourites looking vulnerable, some riders prepared to lose it all trying.
Negatives - the loss of big names was noticeable. The sprint stages suffered most for this, but the loss of Toblerone Boy and Senor Hairplugs affected the GC too. Plus the inevitable teams defending minor placings in the final week. Understandable, but it does have a pretty big impact on the race.
An interesting parcours, different. If I could have changed it I'd have put in another mtf, and maybe some cobbles on one of the early sprint stages.
Sky do look very good, but look beatable. AG2R and Movistar (in the past) can challenge Sky. Astana are just woeful as a team despite having talented riders.
ITV coverage just gets better and better, Eurosport are upping their game too (but need to ditch Kirby).
In summary, it's the Tour and I loved it.
*and we all know how it went base over apex even before it started.0 -
inseine wrote:
I wonder if SKY haven't decided that, even if it were possible, it's not worth the backlash they'll get from some of the French public. SDB has talked about winning with a French rider. This would kill any French good will just to put a rider who's leaving on the podium.underlayunderlay wrote:There isn't a thread for today's stage yet, so I'll leave the thought here - when Landa manages to nick a couple of seconds as part of Sky's marvellous "hearts and minds" media campaign, what are the jury going to take it off him for?
^this. If they did try and put Landa on the podium it would be more than 'boos' aimed at their riders. It'd be back to bottles of wee wee and maybe even worse0 -
reallyarunner wrote:...I'm genuinely surprised at how nobody seems bothered that the tour winner can't manage to win a stage.
Rules say GC is won by the rider with the lowest cumulative time.
Some years there are time bonuses.
Some years there's a TTT
Some year's there's lots of ITT miles
etc.
Teams (and most followers) just play by the rules in force at the time and so aren't particularly bothered. If there was a requirement to win a stage then teams would race differently.0
