snap general election?

TheBigBean

bendertherobot wrote:

But, on the involvement of the DUP it appears very clear, very clear I tell you, that a bad deal is better than no deal

I'm unconvinced they need the DUP, so I don't think any concessions to them are necessary.

DUP doesn't want Labour in power.

Brexit needs to be discussed and agreed with Labour.

bendertherobot

A grand coalition is by far the best mandate

bendertherobot

It appears she's sent negotiators to NI to talk about a formal, agreed coalition

bianchimoon

it's really hard to think of a more embarrassing political position to be in

briantrumpet

bianchimoon wrote:

it's really hard to think of a more embarrassing political position to be in

Like the GOP trying to defend Trump's insanity, it's easier if you ditch all decent/reasonable principles.

bendertherobot

One adviser gone

bendertherobot

Now both.

bianchimoon

bendertherobot wrote:

Now both.

responsibility stops at the .... menials!

bianchimoon

Tory Nigel Evans: The only thing that was missing from the manifesto was euthanasia for the over 70s

bendertherobot

bianchimoon wrote:

Tory Nigel Evans: The only thing that was missing from the manifesto was euthanasia for the over 70s

He's very animated, isn't he. So, the next question is, what next? A money tree manifesto next time? A promise laden one? Or the same thing with a better frontman?

All these commentators saying we need another election to get a majority (back). None of them with a suggestion, yet, as to how that will be done. And why the electorate should trust a party who changes the lead singer but not the music.

crispybug2

bianchimoon wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Now both.

responsibility stops at the .... menials!

Rats leaving a sinking ship??

bendertherobot

crispybug2 wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Now both.

responsibility stops at the .... menials!

Rats leaving a sinking ship??

If the reports are accurate, no, the Captain and XO.

briantrumpet

bianchimoon wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Now both.

responsibility stops at the .... menials!

I hope that May has more self-awareness than Trump, who blames everyone but himself for the clusterf that is the US now. May's mistake was, it seems, shutting out people who could serve as 'critical friends'. The flaw in Stevo's masterplan is that the best way to have a robust Tory party (or government) is to have a strong opposition to challenge your viewpoint: without that challenge, the party/government will convince itself that its way is the only way, and will lapse into complacency... I mean, what could possibly go wrong when you've got a 20%+ lead in the polls...?

ben@31

bendertherobot wrote:

A grand coalition is by far the best mandate

Tory and DUP - a grand coalition
Anyone else - coalitions are bad, weak, can't work. Coalition of chaos

Hypocrisy ???

veronese68

ben@31 wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

A grand coalition is by far the best mandate

Tory and DUP - a grand coalition
Anyone else - coalitions are bad, weak, can't work. Coalition of chaos

Hypocrisy ???

You mean a coalition of chaos with terrorist sympathisers. If they had any shame those words would haunt them. But whilst everyone else can see the hypocrisy, they will deny it.
The whole thing is absolutely disgusting and the Conservatives really should be ashamed of themselves.

briantrumpet

Veronese68 wrote:

ben@31 wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

A grand coalition is by far the best mandate

Tory and DUP - a grand coalition
Anyone else - coalitions are bad, weak, can't work. Coalition of chaos

Hypocrisy ???

You mean a coalition of chaos with terrorist sympathisers. If they had any shame those words would haunt them. But whilst everyone else can see the hypocrisy, they will deny it.
The whole thing is absolutely disgusting and the Conservatives really should be ashamed of themselves.

Blinded by the desperation to hang onto power and deliver the hard Brexit they crave.

kingstongraham

crispybug2 wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Now both.

responsibility stops at the .... menials!

Rats leaving a sinking ship??

No, reports say that May was told unless they go this weekend, there would be a leadership challenge on Monday.

mamba80

Veronese68 wrote:

ben@31 wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

A grand coalition is by far the best mandate

Tory and DUP - a grand coalition
Anyone else - coalitions are bad, weak, can't work. Coalition of chaos

Hypocrisy ???

You mean a coalition of chaos with terrorist sympathisers. If they had any shame those words would haunt them. But whilst everyone else can see the hypocrisy, they will deny it.
The whole thing is absolutely disgusting and the Conservatives really should be ashamed of themselves.

yep, even my most ardent Tory friends are embarrassed and bemused by their behaviour, indefensible.

BelgianBeerGeek

briantrumpet wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

ben@31 wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

A grand coalition is by far the best mandate

Tory and DUP - a grand coalition
Anyone else - coalitions are bad, weak, can't work. Coalition of chaos

Hypocrisy ???

You mean a coalition of chaos with terrorist sympathisers. If they had any shame those words would haunt them. But whilst everyone else can see the hypocrisy, they will deny it.
The whole thing is absolutely disgusting and the Conservatives really should be ashamed of themselves.

Blinded by the desperation to hang onto power and deliver the hard Brexit they crave.

You call it "desperation", they would say business-like or hard-headed. You might even say ruthless. But that is the Tory party for you - vicious bastards to a man. That's why they survive, like rats.

briantrumpet

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

ben@31 wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

A grand coalition is by far the best mandate

Tory and DUP - a grand coalition
Anyone else - coalitions are bad, weak, can't work. Coalition of chaos

Hypocrisy ???

You mean a coalition of chaos with terrorist sympathisers. If they had any shame those words would haunt them. But whilst everyone else can see the hypocrisy, they will deny it.
The whole thing is absolutely disgusting and the Conservatives really should be ashamed of themselves.

Blinded by the desperation to hang onto power and deliver the hard Brexit they crave.

You call it "desperation", they would say business-like or hard-headed. You might even say ruthless. But that is the Tory party for you - vicious bastards to a man. That's why they survive, like rats.

Tenacity is a trait to be applauded when employed at judicious times. When it results in giving control to a bigoted sectarian party in order to carry out a highly controversial policy of truly historical significance, whilst potentially undermining the delicate and hard-won peace in one corner of the nation, it's desperation.

kingstongraham

bendertherobot wrote:

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/bills/public/english-votes-for-english-laws/

Labour still 70 seats behind in England though.

bianchimoon

KingstonGraham wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/bills/public/english-votes-for-english-laws/

Labour still 70 seats behind in England though.

yes but this chaotic, desperate, disgraceful coalition will without doubt make Corbyn and labour stronger in this Autumns (or before) election

slowmart

bianchimoon wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/bills/public/english-votes-for-english-laws/

Labour still 70 seats behind in England though.

yes but this chaotic, desperate, disgraceful coalition will without doubt make Corbyn and labour stronger in this Autumns (or before) election

Power at what price? The leader of the DUP is either corrupt or inept given her oversight of the fuel scheme.

The DUP are are the western equivalent of the Taliban, the only question is which organisation has the more tolerant approach to women and individual freedoms.

This will make the Tories even more toxic to the public and give Labour that extra edge which was missing from their result. Given the Tories had their worst leader in 40 years and the worst electoral campaign in living memory - the gap could and should have been closer if not an outright win for Labour. If any previous labour leader had lost in such circumstances I believe they would have resigned. But then we are living in unprecedented times and nothing is normal.

ugo.santalucia

Slowmart wrote:

This will make the Tories even more toxic to the public and give Labour that extra edge which was missing from their result. Given the Tories had their worst leader in 40 years and the worst electoral campaign in living memory - the gap could and should have been closer if not an outright win for Labour. If any previous labour leader had lost in such circumstances I believe they would have resigned. But then we are living in unprecedented times and nothing is normal.

I tend to agree that without the Miliband disaster, Corbyn's result would have been poor, but given Miliband disintegrated the party, Corbyn's result of 40% is pretty impressive indeed.

Yes, the Tories are on a slippery slope... if they last 5 years they won't make any friends among the young... I guess the switchover point Labour to Tory which used to be in the early 30s, in line with home ownership, will slip into well into the 40s or even 50s... in the meantime part of their traditional electorate will be 6 foot under in 5 years, whereas there will be quite a lot of new young voters for Labour.

Demographically they are finished. Only Boris can turn things round

mrfpb

Arlene Foster is the leader of the biggest, but not majority, party in her national assembly following a completely unnecessary election. Three months on from the election she has not formed a government, yet refuses to resign.

Remind you of anyone?

rick_chasey

Some pundits linking Corbyn's campaign (more gov't spending) with Leave campaign (£350m for NHS - ie more govt spending).

veronese68

So the Tories in their desperation to cling onto power initially offered a referendum on EU membership to placate the 'kipper types. Then, having lost that we had to put up with a load of their infighting during which they were happily stabbing each other in the back as they each attempted to further their own careers. Eventually one that saw herself as the supreme leader came out on top. She has flip flopped repeatedly whilst claiming to be strong and stable. Then, having triggered article 50 and with a seemingly unassailable lead she called an election she said she wouldn't. After saying a few stupid things she hid from anyone that would question her authority. Meanwhile the unelectable leader of the opposition gained ground. So she has now thrown away her majority and sounded a load of money in the process, yet she claims she is the only one fit to lead us in negotiations they haven't given more than a cursory thought to,
So, in a time when the government really should have been preparing for what will be complex negotiations with the EU they have been doing nothing but attempting to feather their own nests. Now as a result they have had to team up with a vile bunch of extremists that make Trumps lot seem reasonable. Plus, to make matter worse we are going to have to put up with more infighting and backstabbing over the next few weeks, possibly with another election at the end of it. It's a total fcuking shambles and I have no idea how anyone can justify it. I am truly appalled.
Meanwhile the article 50 clock keeps ticking. They are a disgrace.

shortfall

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

This will make the Tories even more toxic to the public and give Labour that extra edge which was missing from their result. Given the Tories had their worst leader in 40 years and the worst electoral campaign in living memory - the gap could and should have been closer if not an outright win for Labour. If any previous labour leader had lost in such circumstances I believe they would have resigned. But then we are living in unprecedented times and nothing is normal.

I tend to agree that without the Miliband disaster, Corbyn's result would have been poor, but given Miliband disintegrated the party, Corbyn's result of 40% is pretty impressive indeed.

Yes, the Tories are on a slippery slope... if they last 5 years they won't make any friends among the young... I guess the switchover point Labour to Tory which used to be in the early 30s, in line with home ownership, will slip into well into the 40s or even 50s... in the meantime part of their traditional electorate will be 6 foot under in 5 years, whereas there will be quite a lot of new young voters for Labour.



Demographically they are finished. Only Boris can turn things round

I think all the main parties have had it to be honest because people are just fed up to the back teeth of being repeatedly lied to. I guess it's always been so but for me the Blair years ushered in new level of cynicism where political principles were abandoned in the pursuit of power. The Cameron years were just an extension of that, saying or doing anything that will appeal to the so called middle ground in the hope that there's enough votes to be had there to win a majority. I'll say this about Corbyn, he may be an absolute idiot but he's an honest idiot. He says what he believes in and in the case of the EU and Trident which he was opposed to all his political life, he was overruled by his own party and was bound by their collective decisions on these things rightly or wrongly. I think people admired this in him, particularly the young voters who don't remember the 70s and what happened the last time his free unicorns for everyone economic policies were enacted. The elephant in the room is that whoever is in power has a 1.7 trillion government debt (and rising) to service which is the real reason for cuts to public services. I personally think we are going to have to wake up to the fact that we are in national decline and can no longer afford the standard of living and services we have become accustomed to. The truth of it is we have been living beyond our means for some considerable time and I don't see any of the parties offering up any realistic policies to reverse this.

tailwindhome

mrfpb wrote:

Arlene Foster is the leader of the biggest, but not majority, party in her national assembly following a completely unnecessary election. Three months on from the election she has not formed a government, yet refuses to resign.

Remind you of anyone?

That's a bit disingenuous.
She cannot form an executive without the consent of Sinn Fein.
It was the late Martin McGuinness' resignation as deputy First Minister and the refusal of Sinn Fein to nominate a replacement which brought the executive down in the first place (politics aside, that was the mechanism)

Sinn Fein's current position is that they will not nominate while Foster is first minister
The DUP's position is that Sinn Fein don't get to select the leader of the DUP


As Rick has grasped, but other's don't seem to have, the British Government cannot act as an honest broker between the two parties while the Conservative minority government is propped up by one.

ugo.santalucia

Shortfall wrote:

I think all the main parties have had it to be honest because people are just fed up to the back teeth of being repeatedly lied to. I guess it's always been so but for me the Blair years ushered in new level of cynicism where political principles were abandoned in the pursuit of power. The Cameron years were just an extension of that, saying or doing anything that will appeal to the so called middle ground in the hope that there's enough votes to be had there to win a majority. I'll say this about Corbyn, he may be an absolute idiot but he's an honest idiot. He says what he believes in and in the case of the EU and Trident which he was opposed to all his political life, he was overruled by his own party and was bound by their collective decisions on these things rightly or wrongly. I think people admired this in him, particularly the young voters who don't remember the 70s and what happened the last time his free unicorns for everyone economic policies were enacted. The elephant in the room is that whoever is in power has a 1.7 trillion government debt (and rising) to service which is the real reason for cuts to public services. I personally think we are going to have to wake up to the fact that we are in national decline and can no longer afford the standard of living and services we have become accustomed to. The truth of it is we have been living beyond our means for some considerable time and I don't see any of the parties offering up any realistic policies to reverse this.

Lifestyle, are we living beyond our means? Yes... look at the number of 30 grand plus cars on the roads... virtually every other car is a JLR/Mercedes/BMW/Audi.

Services: of course we can afford better services, we just have to pay more in tax and less in luxury cars

It's very simple really...