snap general election?

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  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Jez mon wrote:
    Dinyull wrote:
    I totally accept he/they have no chance in winning anyway, but it was a great opportunity for him to put the spotlight on the Tories without TM shooting back "last labour govt" over and over again.

    It's like they don't want to win. Is that their/his gameplan? Wait till Brexit, and campaign on the back of things getting tough thanks to that? Having said that, he's fully behind the will of the people so probably not.

    I think Labours plan may well be to let TM get on with absolutely ****ing it up before emerging from the ashes of Brexit. At which point they'll be able to say, yea last labour government overspent (and had to bail the tory's best friends, the bankers, out). But last Tory government took us out of the worlds biggest trading block because they were scared of giving away votes to a party full of closet racists and swivel eyed loons.

    Then why the hell vote for a snap election now on her terms??

    Get rid of Jezza?!
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,836
    mamba80 wrote:

    un- fcuking-believable!

    a chance in a million to put labours message across, without being shot down by TM and he says NO and to make the voters wonder why May isnt there with an empty chair...
    hate to say it but stevo was spot on when he started that thread a while back.

    is JC a secret tory?
    Why thank you sir :)

    Corbyn would lose an argument with an empty chair as saying nothing is better than what he is going to say...
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:

    un- fcuking-believable!

    a chance in a million to put labours message across, without being shot down by TM and he says NO and to make the voters wonder why May isnt there with an empty chair...
    hate to say it but stevo was spot on when he started that thread a while back.

    is JC a secret tory?
    Why thank you sir :)

    Corbyn would lose an argument with an empty chair as saying nothing is better than what he is going to say...

    From my pov, this is what is soooo fustrating, he can on a good day, put his msg across with passion and belief and he and/ or his advisers, wont do it!!!
    a former labour voter today was telling me that even now, if JC stood down, labour would be in with a shout.....

    No problem, was worth it for you to call me SIR :lol::lol::lol: :oops:
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,836
    mamba80 wrote:
    No problem, was worth it for you to call me SIR :lol::lol::lol: :oops:
    I believe in respect for one's elders :wink:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Lookyhere wrote:
    Of course any Welsh company could have been selling to almost any market across the globe without a trade deal, just as you can buy LOOK bikes and pedals in Singapore, Audi's in New Zealand or the UK's ARM exports world wide.

    Pro Brexit May is talking even more rubbish.

    Of course anybody can sell elsewhere in the world at present, however they incur tariffs thus making their product less attractive. Trade deal = tariff free = more sales.

    simples really.
    When a true genius appears in this world, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Lookyhere wrote:
    Of course any Welsh company could have been selling to almost any market across the globe without a trade deal, just as you can buy LOOK bikes and pedals in Singapore, Audi's in New Zealand or the UK's ARM exports world wide.

    Pro Brexit May is talking even more rubbish.

    Of course anybody can sell elsewhere in the world at present, however they incur tariffs thus making their product less attractive. Trade deal = tariff free = more sales.

    simples really.

    If, post-Brexit, going to standard WTO terms will not harm our trade with the EU then surely those same tariffs can not be harming our current trade with the rest of the world.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Saw this. Made me chuckle.

    C-S0KYgWsAAF63u.jpg
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Meanwhile, it's clear to see the Labour operations are clearly in the sh!t, with Bojo's speech on possibly bombing Syria is making the top story on Radio 4, but not because he said the UK might up airstrikes in Syria, but because he said "Mugwump".

    And it's been on probably 6 cycles that I've heard.

    If this was 7 years ago, Labour would have been all over that sorting that sh!t out, and berrating BBC journos for treating Bojo like a loveable puppy rather than focusing on the content of what he says as Foreign Minister.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,228
    We get to vote against Zac Goldsmith yet again.
  • Lookyhere
    Lookyhere Posts: 987
    Lookyhere wrote:
    Of course any Welsh company could have been selling to almost any market across the globe without a trade deal, just as you can buy LOOK bikes and pedals in Singapore, Audi's in New Zealand or the UK's ARM exports world wide.

    Pro Brexit May is talking even more rubbish.

    Of course anybody can sell elsewhere in the world at present, however they incur tariffs thus making their product less attractive. Trade deal = tariff free = more sales.

    simples really.

    No sh$t Sherlock!
    Look around your house or your bicycle and see how many UK manufacturers you buy into? with a few exceptions, we dont make stuff the rest of the world wants, that will not change if they drop a few % in price.

    Pro brexitiers are pretending that there is this marvellous future out there for UK manufacturers but the point is, if we make decent products, you dont have to have a trade deal, it helps but you need the products first.


    Meanwhile, it's clear to see the Labour operations are clearly in the sh!t, with Bojo's speech on possibly bombing Syria is making the top story on Radio 4, but not because he said the UK might up airstrikes in Syria, but because he said "Mugwump".

    And it's been on probably 6 cycles that I've heard.

    If this was 7 years ago, Labour would have been all over that sorting that sh!t out, and berrating BBC journos for treating Bojo like a loveable puppy rather than focusing on the content of what he says as Foreign Minister.

    So what ? Labour lost the last GE..... so whatever they would have done re BJ's remarks, it wouldnt have mattered.

    I dont buy into the BBC's coverage of Labour v Tory - Labour have a cr@p leader and a front bench that only a few months ago was quitting and plotting against Corbyn.

    An opposition that cannot make a case and be heard, against Tory policy on Brexit, GP services/nhs, social care, education, roads and housing isnt worthy of the name.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,872
    We get to vote against Zac Goldsmith yet again.
    Back in the Tory party, quelle surprise. :roll:
    As a colleague just said, where's the picture of Zac holding a pint, trying to look like a man of the people.
    96632800_Boris_Johnson_Zac_Goldsmith-small_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqeo_i_u9APj8RuoebjoAHt0k9u7HhRJvuo-ZLenGRumA.jpg
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Lookyhere wrote:
    Meanwhile, it's clear to see the Labour operations are clearly in the sh!t, with Bojo's speech on possibly bombing Syria is making the top story on Radio 4, but not because he said the UK might up airstrikes in Syria, but because he said "Mugwump".

    And it's been on probably 6 cycles that I've heard.

    If this was 7 years ago, Labour would have been all over that sorting that sh!t out, and berrating BBC journos for treating Bojo like a loveable puppy rather than focusing on the content of what he says as Foreign Minister.

    So what ? Labour lost the last GE..... so whatever they would have done re BJ's remarks, it wouldnt have mattered.

    I dont buy into the BBC's coverage of Labour v Tory - Labour have a cr@p leader and a front bench that only a few months ago was quitting and plotting against Corbyn.

    An opposition that cannot make a case and be heard, against Tory policy on Brexit, GP services/nhs, social care, education, roads and housing isnt worthy of the name.

    You're getting it the wrong way around. It's a comment on Labour's weak operations, not the beeb.

    Though clearly it's sh!t reporting, but that's by-the-by.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,228
    Veronese68 wrote:
    We get to vote against Zac Goldsmith yet again.
    Back in the Tory party, quelle surprise. :roll:
    As a colleague just said, where's the picture of Zac holding a pint, trying to look like a man of the people.
    96632800_Boris_Johnson_Zac_Goldsmith-small_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqeo_i_u9APj8RuoebjoAHt0k9u7HhRJvuo-ZLenGRumA.jpg

    I understand that was just before he went to watch a Bollywood film.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Lookyhere wrote:
    Lookyhere wrote:
    Of course any Welsh company could have been selling to almost any market across the globe without a trade deal, just as you can buy LOOK bikes and pedals in Singapore, Audi's in New Zealand or the UK's ARM exports world wide.

    Pro Brexit May is talking even more rubbish.

    Of course anybody can sell elsewhere in the world at present, however they incur tariffs thus making their product less attractive. Trade deal = tariff free = more sales.

    simples really.

    No sh$t Sherlock!
    Look around your house or your bicycle and see how many UK manufacturers you buy into? with a few exceptions, we dont make stuff the rest of the world wants, that will not change if they drop a few % in price.

    Hmm - we don't sell anything anyone wants?
    The United Kingdom is the 9th largest export economy in the world and the 11th most complex economy according to the Economic Complexity Index (ECI). In 2015, the United Kingdom exported $425B and imported $606B,

    http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/visualize ... show/2015/

    Gas turbines & other technical kit.
    Medicaments
    Cars
    Gold

    Yup - so nothing you'd find in your sittingroom really ...

    I agree with your sentiment - we don't make stuff that "people want" as in very few consumer items - perhaps we should - the problem is due to the cost of living and wage expectations here the cost of creating the goods quickly outweighs the value - so what seems to happen is that we build up a product - then sell the whole concept overseas where they have fewer regulations and a cheaper workforce.... It's a shame that so much is money driven as it's detrimental to our workforce who are forced into becoming "hairdressers and telephone sanitisers" ...
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,031
    In the making stuff argument, I'm always amazed that some cheap bit of plastic from China counts as stuff made, but software or IP doesn't. (I know it counts in exports, I mean the people who bang on about the UK not making stuff).
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    TheBigBean wrote:
    In the making stuff argument, I'm always amazed that some cheap bit of plastic from China counts as stuff made, but software or IP doesn't. (I know it counts in exports, I mean the people who bang on about the UK not making stuff).

    I've given the whole physical manufacturing love-in some thought while I take craps and bike rides, and I've come to the conclusion the reason for the pandering, particularly in the UK, to that type of work, can be defined the hours are.

    In a factory your work your hours and go home.

    In professional services, it's all short deadlines which inevitably leads to longer and less predictable hours...

    I think people really pine for more regular hours.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    while I take craps... really pine for more regular...
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    TheBigBean wrote:
    In the making stuff argument, I'm always amazed that some cheap bit of plastic from China counts as stuff made, but software or IP doesn't. (I know it counts in exports, I mean the people who bang on about the UK not making stuff).

    I've given the whole physical manufacturing love-in some thought while I take craps and bike rides, and I've come to the conclusion the reason for the pandering, particularly in the UK, to that type of work, can be defined the hours are.

    In a factory your work your hours and go home.

    In professional services, it's all short deadlines which inevitably leads to longer and less predictable hours...

    I think people really pine for more regular hours.

    Not everyone is cut out for deep thought - and there are a lot of people who are reasonably good with their hands - physical manufacturing gave them something productive to do and sometimes, something to be proud of doing. The shop floor guys I knew were also very knowledgable about their specific areas of work - so when I enquired why they had to do XYZ they knew the lowdown on what they were doing.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Slowbike wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    In the making stuff argument, I'm always amazed that some cheap bit of plastic from China counts as stuff made, but software or IP doesn't. (I know it counts in exports, I mean the people who bang on about the UK not making stuff).

    I've given the whole physical manufacturing love-in some thought while I take craps and bike rides, and I've come to the conclusion the reason for the pandering, particularly in the UK, to that type of work, can be defined the hours are.

    In a factory your work your hours and go home.

    In professional services, it's all short deadlines which inevitably leads to longer and less predictable hours...

    I think people really pine for more regular hours.

    Not everyone is cut out for deep thought .

    It's a myth professional services is about deep thought.

    Most of it is tranactional.
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    TheBigBean wrote:
    In the making stuff argument, I'm always amazed that some cheap bit of plastic from China counts as stuff made, but software or IP doesn't. (I know it counts in exports, I mean the people who bang on about the UK not making stuff).

    I've given the whole physical manufacturing love-in some thought while I take craps and bike rides, and I've come to the conclusion the reason for the pandering, particularly in the UK, to that type of work, can be defined the hours are.

    In a factory your work your hours and go home.

    In professional services, it's all short deadlines which inevitably leads to longer and less predictable hours...

    I think people really pine for more regular hours.

    At it's best, manufacturing theoretically offers: decent pay, set hours and reasonably interesting work. As opposed to a zero hours contract working in a warehouse, which is the opposite of all three.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,836
    TM must be doing something right based on these poll figures:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/26/theresa-may-popular-voters-leader-since-late-1970s/

    Now outstripping Maggie and Blair in their heyday. Seems as if my bets with Mamba are going to cost him dearly :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,228
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    TM must be doing something right based on these poll figures:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/26/theresa-may-popular-voters-leader-since-late-1970s/

    Now outstripping Maggie and Blair in their heyday. Seems as if my bets with Mamba are going to cost him dearly :)

    That's a comparative poll between May and Corbyn. Like you say, an empty chair would do pretty well against Corbyn.

    Meanwhile, more polled now say leaving the EU was a bad decision than a good decision. And of Labour voters, 68% think it was the wrong decision, 22% think it was the right decision.
    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... kers_W.pdf

    So much for the country coming together.
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    Really think Labour missed an(other) open goal by not offering to scrap Brexit. 52-48 split in the referendum and although a lot have accepted that it's inevitable I think the only people who've changed their opinions on it were people who voted to leave.

    Would have made it more of a fight than at present.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,872
    That's a comparative poll between May and Corbyn. Like you say, an empty chair would do pretty well against Corbyn.

    Meanwhile, more polled now say leaving the EU was a bad decision than a good decision. And of Labour voters, 68% think it was the wrong decision, 22% think it was the right decision.
    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... kers_W.pdf

    So much for the country coming together.
    Yes, figures are massively skewed by having no effective opposition. Corbyn's making Michael Foot look like a massive vote winner.
    Saw the results of both polls in easy to digest form here. I wonder if Coopster has seen it, I suspect the words "remoaner" and "project fear" would feature heavily in his response.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Slowbike wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    In the making stuff argument, I'm always amazed that some cheap bit of plastic from China counts as stuff made, but software or IP doesn't. (I know it counts in exports, I mean the people who bang on about the UK not making stuff).

    I've given the whole physical manufacturing love-in some thought while I take craps and bike rides, and I've come to the conclusion the reason for the pandering, particularly in the UK, to that type of work, can be defined the hours are.

    In a factory your work your hours and go home.

    In professional services, it's all short deadlines which inevitably leads to longer and less predictable hours...

    I think people really pine for more regular hours.

    Not everyone is cut out for deep thought .

    It's a myth professional services is about deep thought.

    Most of it is tranactional.

    It's a myth that everyone can do administrative jobs ...

    I've met some who you'd think they'd be ok - but they're not - they like the shop floor work - more physical than mental - I couldn't do their job - ok, physically I could - but I'd go out of my mind - I need something that challenges me more mentally.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    TM must be doing something right based on these poll figures:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/26/theresa-may-popular-voters-leader-since-late-1970s/

    Now outstripping Maggie and Blair in their heyday. Seems as if my bets with Mamba are going to cost him dearly :)

    Yep, ould be a white wash for the Tories.

    its all in a good cause, so not all bad... early days but thinking of a little fund raising for the Stroke Association later in the summer, it ll be a year since my mum had her stroke soon and my fund raiser would be around the anniversary of her death.
    so i ll be looking for match funding :shock:
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Slowbike wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    In the making stuff argument, I'm always amazed that some cheap bit of plastic from China counts as stuff made, but software or IP doesn't. (I know it counts in exports, I mean the people who bang on about the UK not making stuff).

    I've given the whole physical manufacturing love-in some thought while I take craps and bike rides, and I've come to the conclusion the reason for the pandering, particularly in the UK, to that type of work, can be defined the hours are.

    In a factory your work your hours and go home.

    In professional services, it's all short deadlines which inevitably leads to longer and less predictable hours...

    I think people really pine for more regular hours.

    Not everyone is cut out for deep thought .

    It's a myth professional services is about deep thought.

    Most of it is tranactional.

    It's a myth that everyone can do administrative jobs ...

    I've met some who you'd think they'd be ok - but they're not - they like the shop floor work - more physical than mental - I couldn't do their job - ok, physically I could - but I'd go out of my mind - I need something that challenges me more mentally.

    I'm not saying everyone ought to do admin/desk jockey work.

    But the UK is particularly tilted towards professional services, and as an industry type, it's less predictable from an hours perspective compared typical manual labour (particularly the type of industrial manual labour required in manufacturing). I wonder if that plays into the romanticism of industrial manual labour.
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    Hmm, coming from the home of manual labour workers I don't think predicable hours are a given. My Dad had to work overtime on a whim if the projects were behind schedule, shifts could be all over the place and work location was too.

    My 9-5 office job is far more predictable than his or my brothers work.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Fair enough.
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    Having said that, your probably correct for manufacturing.

    But I see them romanticising of that simply as being proud of something made in Britain, of good quality (not often the case) over pining for a job in a factory.*

    *based on work experience in the Nissan factory - what a grim existence that would be.