Paris Nice 2017 spoilers

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  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    Chapeau to them both. Two guys on their limit and giving everything without the benefit of their trains and no idea whether they had done enough. Audacious attack by contador nearly came off and henao digging deep when he looked like caving in. Superb race!
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,398
    Milton50 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Oof.

    Stages like this (short) work because they're knackered from the mtf the day before.

    Yep. Looks like the organisers of Paris-Nice have hit upon the perfect formula for a 1 week stage race.
    Probably involves doing a wind and rain dance the week before ;)
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    the article don wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    However you cut it, Contador is beaten by a Froome domestique.

    I think the expression is "bigger fish to fry"
    He was second last year but failed to fry any more fish ;)
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    However, it's a pity that few, if any of his fans can be gracious in defeat.

    Graciousness in defeat devalues the efforts of the victor.

    To be gracious in defeat is to in some way make out it doesn't matter enough to be inconsolable. That you didn't give everything and still lost.

    That was what was good about that Contador interview afterwards. He wasn't gracious. He was spent, and really very disappointed that his best efforts fell short (just). Henao can genuinely feel he beat a Contador who gave everything, and that's nice for Henao.
    _
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,325
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    However, it's a pity that few, if any of his fans can be gracious in defeat.

    Graciousness in defeat devalues the efforts of the victor.

    To be gracious in defeat is to in some way make out it doesn't matter enough to be inconsolable. That you didn't give everything and still lost.

    That was what was good about that Contador interview afterwards. He wasn't gracious. He was spent, and really very disappointed that his best efforts fell short (just). Henao can genuinely feel he beat a Contador who gave everything, and that's nice for Henao.

    Being ungracious is making the suggestion that you lost because of something underhand, or because it didn't really matter so you didn't try your best. Being really bloody annoyed because you gave it everything and fell short isn't ungracious.

    I'll readily admit that I don't warm to Contador, but I admired his attack today.
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    Only just caught up with today's stage. It showed why I'm a fan of Contador, he had this stage ra e as a season target and rad can it properly. Just like in 09 where he was down on GC he went on the attack and tried to win the race, rather than saving his legs for later on it in the season.

    Must be another side up Col D'Eze from Monaco as I didn't regocnise any of the roads from when I road it last season, also looked totally different when I rode it. Next time seems best to load it onto a Garmin.
  • type:epyt
    type:epyt Posts: 766
    Did Contador deserve to win? Yes ... But he didn't ... Did anyone other than AC enjoy tne racing any less? No…
    Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it.
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,325
    type:epyt wrote:
    Did Contador deserve to win? Yes ... But he didn't ... Did anyone other than AC enjoy tne racing any less? No…

    I have a sneaking suspicion Contador enjoyed it. Nearly stealing a win via an audacious attack from miles out that has everyone saying how good you are? Not bad when the financial difference between first and second is the square root of FA.
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    kleinstroker wrote:
    De La Cruz stole Paris-Nice feom Bertie by going for stage win

    Or De La Cruz put Bertie in a position where he could win P-N overall by helping him on the descent even though he risked Martin's podium.
    And what was he supposed to do, pull over and let Contador win?

    A Paris-Nice stage win is worth something, expecting him to give it up so that someone from a different team can win the stage and overall is a bit perverse.

    Sorry but I think you're all wrong.

    I only saw the last 30km but Contador did most of the work, and then de la crud pounced in the last few metres, knowing it probably meant Contador losing the yellow jersey. I don't think that was very sporting personally.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    kleinstroker wrote:

    I only saw the last 30km but Contador did most of the work, and then de la crud pounced in the last few metres, knowing it probably meant Contador losing the yellow jersey. I don't think that was very sporting personally.

    Eh?

    Why should De La Cruz give a sh!t if Contador wins or not?
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    "De La Cruz - what do you think about your victory denying Contador of Trek to win the overall?"


    "Giveashit".
    _
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,398
    Expecting him to work so that someone from another team could take yellow is just mental.

    Contador would have done exactly the same.
  • jam1e
    jam1e Posts: 1,068
    There is this weird expectation amongst a lot of contador fans that other teams and riders must sacrifice their own ambitions and results to help their hero and ideally, actively help him in any given scenario.

    CN forum didn't have a lot of love for de la cruz or Bahrain Merida yesterday - apparently they're all traitors!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    Just be glad this wasn't 30 years ago, where, chances are, a rider in Contador's position would have gotten the chequebook out.
    _
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,704
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    kleinstroker wrote:

    I only saw the last 30km but Contador did most of the work, and then de la crud pounced in the last few metres, knowing it probably meant Contador losing the yellow jersey. I don't think that was very sporting personally.

    Eh?

    Why should De La Cruz give a sh!t if Contador wins or not?

    This is the sort of stuff I was talking about when I said his fans are simply cannot gracious in any defeat.
    Although those calling De la Cruz names are vastly outnumbered by those lambasting Bahrain for chasing behind.
    (remember, it was Gallopin who was their target, last year)
    So using the power of their revisionary hindsight, we get to De la Cruz should have worked with AC, but let him win at the end. Bahrain should have ignored the possibility of the breakaway fracturing, not chased and given up the possibility of a podium spot.
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Just be glad this wasn't 30 years ago, where, chances are, a rider in Contador's position would have gotten the chequebook out.

    Apparently, that is was Sky have done, these past two years. Same source.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Richmond Racer 2
    Richmond Racer 2 Posts: 4,698
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Just be glad this wasn't 30 years ago, where, chances are, a rider in Contador's position would have gotten the chequebook out.



    'Bert should have made him an offer' was precisely my thought after Henao crossed the line
  • Richmond Racer 2
    Richmond Racer 2 Posts: 4,698
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    kleinstroker wrote:

    I only saw the last 30km but Contador did most of the work, and then de la crud pounced in the last few metres, knowing it probably meant Contador losing the yellow jersey. I don't think that was very sporting personally.

    Eh?

    Why should De La Cruz give a sh!t if Contador wins or not?

    This is the sort of stuff I was talking about when I said his fans are simply cannot gracious in any defeat.
    Although those calling De la Cruz names are vastly outnumbered by those lambasting Bahrain for chasing behind.
    (remember, it was Gallopin who was their target, last year)
    So using the power of their revisionary hindsight, we get to De la Cruz should have worked with AC, but let him win at the end. Bahrain should have ignored the possibility of the breakaway fracturing, not chased and given up the possibility of a podium spot.
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Just be glad this wasn't 30 years ago, where, chances are, a rider in Contador's position would have gotten the chequebook out.

    Apparently, that is was Sky have done, these past two years. Same source.



    The rabid Bert fans are hilarious
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    The rabid Bert fans are hilarious
    I just got hit by a sudden sniff of forum nostalgia :cry:
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Just be glad this wasn't 30 years ago, where, chances are, a rider in Contador's position would have gotten the chequebook out.



    'Bert should have made him an offer' was precisely my thought after Henao crossed the line

    Modern salaries make it tricky innit.
    _
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    well as an AC fan I just looked at it as a great effort, but just didn't have it in the legs for the final few seconds..

    Didn't expect De La Cruz to work, why would he when he can sit in and get a stage win.
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    kleinstroker wrote:

    I only saw the last 30km but Contador did most of the work, and then de la crud pounced in the last few metres, knowing it probably meant Contador losing the yellow jersey. I don't think that was very sporting personally.

    Eh?

    Why should De La Cruz give a sh!t if Contador wins or not?

    You're right, nobody ever complained about a wheelsucker stealing a stage before.
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,642
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    yourpaceormine wrote:
    Tuned in late due to kitchen decorating. Could be the radiator spray paint fumes, but I took a double take: Bahrain Merida look mighty like Team Wiggins.



    Don't start me off. Dish will have a go at me :P

    Lolz... damn right...

    There was a certain similarity between last year's Wiggins kit and this year's Bahrain kit but not with this year's kit, though given that Team Wiggins haven't raced much this year I can understand why people haven't seen it... apart from in Skoda ads!

    Bahrain Merdia
    PELLIZOTTI-BAHRAIN-MERIDA-2017_0286-Custom-1.jpg

    Wiggins last year
    sptdw201_670.jpg

    Wiggins this year
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbUFF13kNDRmNiaEuTD6Evu1fBQCBlpOuK-PSnSltmGSHpIGOtsw

    And just for RR, here's the situation in Bahrain just now.
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    jam1e wrote:
    There is this weird expectation amongst a lot of contador fans that other teams and riders must sacrifice their own ambitions and results to help their hero and ideally, actively help him in any given scenario.

    CN forum didn't have a lot of love for de la cruz or Bahrain Merida yesterday - apparently they're all traitors!

    I don't even think of myself as a Bertie fan tbh, one of the reasons I like cycling over other sports is the sense of good sportsmanship. Wheelsucking is not good sportsmanship, and I doubt I will ever see it differently
  • imatfaal
    imatfaal Posts: 2,716
    Win for Henao shows the importance of a well-rounded squad who can think on their feet - Luke Rowe kept Henao at the front during that awful/brilliant day of echelons (and Rowe paid for it - as soon as the peleton turned and the crosswinds abated Rowe had to drop back and lost over 2mins on the day; but job was done) . Henao took almost a minute from Contador on the first day of the race:

    9. COL HENAO MONTOYA Sergio 101 TEAM SKY 03h 22' 52'' + 00' 19
    20. ESP CONTADOR Alberto 11 TREK - SEGAFREDO 03h 23' 47'' + 01' 14''

    Trek had got their act together by day 2 and Contador was kept with front group - but a minute on a good climber was just too much to make up

    Great race with a bit of everything - I do feel that Froome or Quintana would have made it look easy
  • rubertoe
    rubertoe Posts: 3,994
    kleinstroker wrote:
    jam1e wrote:
    There is this weird expectation amongst a lot of contador fans that other teams and riders must sacrifice their own ambitions and results to help their hero and ideally, actively help him in any given scenario.

    CN forum didn't have a lot of love for de la cruz or Bahrain Merida yesterday - apparently they're all traitors!

    I don't even think of myself as a Bertie fan tbh, one of the reasons I like cycling over other sports is the sense of good sportsmanship. Wheelsucking is not good sportsmanship, and I doubt I will ever see it differently

    Wheelsucking? Sportsmanship?

    Are you sure? they are professionals, paid by someone to advertise their products. There is nothing in there that says you should help someone else at the detriment of your own team, they are also mercenaries really. So De la Cruz helps Bertie to win and finishes 2nd on the stage. He fails to get that contract as no one cares who comes 2nd, where as a PN stage on your palmeres might be the difference between a new contract or an improved contract, he has no loyalty to Bertie.

    Bertie rolled the dice and lost, de la cruz did the professional things.
    "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

    PX Kaffenback 2 = Work Horse
    B-Twin Alur 700 = Sundays and Hills
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    ^ You're opinion, am I allowed to have mine?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    People like to say that cyclng is like chess on wheels and then complain when it isn't played like snakes and ladders
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • maddog 2
    maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    De La Cruz did what he did to win the stage. If you think he should do something else then you don't understand sport.
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,398
    If they'd both just been in it for the stage win then I'd understand it being unsporting. But then Contador would have stopped working if he wasn't getting any collaboration and they'd have been caught, so...
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    Should I point out that Contador's only two Grand Tour stage wins in the last four seasons have come from sucking Froome's wheel up mountains in the 2014 Vuelta?

    Now, to my mind that was reasonable tactics, even if the second one was a little unnecessary. But if you think De La Cruz was wrong...
    Twitter: @RichN95

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