Cycling is a weak sport

LukeTC

SmoggySteve wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

If sprint disciplines and Athletics isn't mentally demanding then why are most top athletes highly intelligent and articulate individuals?

My all time favourite athlete is Michael Johnson. I defy anyone to find a more accomplished, skilled, physical, intelligent and talented athlete let alone 400m runner. Indeed i would hold him up against any sportsman, or woman, in the modern history of sporting endeavour. Just my opinion.

Skill, tactics, ability, dedication, skill, knowledge of the discipline, focus, mental strength, etc. He had it all. He's s pretty good coach, mentor and probably one of the best sporting pundits around. BBC got a real coup hiring him years back.

I see where you are going but would you say footballers are intellectually brilliant? They are still highly skilful in their jobs

If we're talking top level, anyone who convinced people they're worth a couple hundred grand a week must be a fking genius

cooldad

Harry-S wrote:

There's a lot skill in a 100m sprint, make no mistake. As this clip clearly shows:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GmmAUbfhMU

I found one of the OP training.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaqxIXs_mn4

pinno

As said previously, comparing sport from an outsider's point of view is erroneous.

I coach Table Tennis and at a high level, TT is about training the reflex. At 90mph and with two players standing 3 feet off the table (i.e 15 feet apart), you have 6 hundredths of a second to react. The muscle reacts quicker than the conscious part of the brain. Hard to initially fathom but if the reflex had to go through a decision process, the ball would be passed you before you reacted.
It's a bit like when Jeremy Clarkson was with Schumacher and comparing reaction times (approx. 0.27 of a second for both of them). It was just that Schumacher's anticipation was far better.
So when we talk about skill, it is a multi layered and sometimes inexplicable art. I think that in cycling, the reflex is highly advanced but how much of it is nurtured and how much of it is nature is a big question.
This is where I am much confused: when you see a footballer and then in interview, they come over as well... thick. Their skill I think relies on reflex, anticipation and decision making but not necessarily intelligence.
From my knowledge in TT, I am pretty sure that returning a Tennis serve at 135mph is also reflex just like a cricketer (facing Wasim Akram or Jeff Thompson).
Given 20 12-14 year olds in a group of TT wannabe's, 1 or 2 will have 'naturally better*' reflexes than the rest. However, anticipation is a cerebral process and just because someone's reflex is good, does not mean to say that their anticipation is equal to it. So the kid with the ultra fast reflexes may not have the anticipation of the next kid and so it balances the equation.

*I am very much in the nurture camp not the nature camp but that is an aside and no amount of skill is going to turn a 4 foot person into a world class basket ball player, however that is genetics and the 4 foot bloke could still be highly skilful. I have my own theory but that is going off the beaten track a little. So when I say 'in someone's nature', I would veer towards the very probable early exposure to certain activities which provide a foundation for excelling in a particular field.

smoggysteve

Pinno wrote:

I would veer towards the very probable early exposure to certain activities which provide a foundation for excelling in a particular field.

Which is why so many countries out perform the UK in sports. We as a nation will never produce a world class skier since we don't have the mountains for our kids to learn on enough to get good enough to compete with the best. Many sports we could do better. Sports participation in schools is a hot subject for debate in itself. Some sports we are good at can come across as elitist i.e. Horse riding where the wealthy get chance to participate but the chances of a working class family children from inner city neighbourhoods havr very little chance.

We also have our national sports like football which we still get beaten in since we don't do enough grass roots development early enough and it is only getting worse as more clubs put less into youth development and more into signing multi million pound foreign players.

pinno

SmoggySteve wrote:

Pinno wrote:

I would veer towards the very probable early exposure to certain activities which provide a foundation for excelling in a particular field.

Which is why so many countries out perform the UK in sports.

Yep. I had a Swedish GF and she did a course in equine studies. I thought she was a bit posh for me but it was a sport activity choice in the national curriculum!

SmoggySteve wrote:

We also have our national sports like football which we still get beaten in since we don't do enough grass roots development early enough and it is only getting worse as more clubs put less into youth development and more into signing multi million pound foreign players.

That's actually a complete lack of structure and a voluntarist approach to youth development on a national scale - in other words, it's down to individual clubs to provide youth academies for example. I've had this discussion before on here but on deaf ears.
The Spanish FA pay 50% of youth wages including staff. They used to pay 50% of set up costs for the construction of a youth academy (I don't know given the current economic circumstances if this practice still continues), hence the YA's right down to the middle of Liga Adalente. Fine example of that is when Rangers got knocked out of the UEFA cup fixture by 'little' Osasuna (Mar 2007) - 'Little' ?! Osasuna has had a' youth academy*' since the 1960's.

*Of a form.

There is mandatory protected contracts and minimum release fee clauses for under 21's so that although the club may not retain the player, they'll gain the player's value. It's a two way thing - the club is willing to put the effort into coaching and bringing on players whilst getting the financial benefit. In the UK, the club affiliated Youth Academy is down to the club and the structure is such that it is an entirely selfish venture with no national aspirations set out through a proper legislative structure.

homers_double

Try fishing.

Skill - Teasing hook shy fish out of their natural habitat.

Tactics - Beating the guy next door.

Physical ability - The gear is heavy.

Stamina - Its hard work sitting there in the sun for four hours.

pinno

homers double wrote:

Try fishing.

Skill - Teasing hook shy fish out of their natural habitat.

Tactics - Beating the guy next door.

Physical ability - The gear is heavy.

Stamina - Its hard work sitting there in the sun for four hours.

How do you train the fore finger to pull those ring pulls HD?

fat daddy

Pinno wrote:

How do you train the fore finger to pull those ring pulls HD?

There are 2 schools of thought on this. The 1st is you only get better at doing something by doing it .. so you need to regularity open ring pulls and your body will adapt. then there is the new school thought which says working on accessory muscles like the core and doing strength training can massively increase ones ability to pull rings, so, in effect do sqyuats at the gym

meursault

Pinno wrote:

SmoggySteve wrote:

Pinno wrote:

I would veer towards the very probable early exposure to certain activities which provide a foundation for excelling in a particular field.

Which is why so many countries out perform the UK in sports.

Yep. I had a Swedish GF and she did a course in equine studies. I thought she was a bit posh for me but it was a sport activity choice in the national curriculum!

SmoggySteve wrote:

We also have our national sports like football which we still get beaten in since we don't do enough grass roots development early enough and it is only getting worse as more clubs put less into youth development and more into signing multi million pound foreign players.

That's actually a complete lack of structure and a voluntarist approach to youth development on a national scale ...

Agreed. I coached youth football when my boy was playing. FA level two course was starting to implement a strategy that could be applied nationally, and was being introduced at that time by Trevor Brooking. No idea what happened to it. IMHO the main reason for England and UK having such a poor national side, is a lack of technical skill coaching. Youth teams are run by Dads who want to win shitsborough no-one cares league div 5b. When they should be improving players and forgetting results. In Europe and South America the emphasis is on skill, and coaches are held in higher regard. Watch any European top league match, and you will notice the higher skill level immediately. All players are comfortable on the ball, and can pass to teammates. The opposite of watching England.

First.Aspect

Pinno wrote:

homers double wrote:

Try fishing.

Skill - Teasing hook shy fish out of their natural habitat.

Tactics - Beating the guy next door.

Physical ability - The gear is heavy.

Stamina - Its hard work sitting there in the sun for four hours.

How do you train the fore finger to pull those ring pulls HD?

Having to shout at anyone who comes within 100 yards of you is also quite emotionally draining.

bompington

fat daddy wrote:

Pinno wrote:

How do you train the fore finger to pull those ring pulls HD?

There are 2 schools of thought on this. The 1st is you only get better at doing something by doing it .. so you need to regularity open ring pulls and your body will adapt. then there is the new school thought which says working on accessory muscles like the core and doing strength training can massively increase ones ability to pull rings, so, in effect do sqyuats at the gym

I'm sorry, but this is absolute tripe. Everyone knows that it all depends on whether you have a Shimano groupset on the rod.

smoggysteve

If you go back a fee decades we had exceptional talented players like Chris Waddle, Matt Le Tissier , Peter Beardsley, John Barnes to name a few. They came through from playing schoolboy football with their mates in the park.

There were no world class coaches nurturing their ability they are just good. Probably cos they just went out and played all the time and developed their skills on the school playing fields. Granted the clubs would then pick them up and develop them but an integral piece has been lost in recent times. They don't play as much. They get less exposure to proper competitive football at any level and stagnate

homers_double

Pinno wrote:

homers double wrote:

Try fishing.

Skill - Teasing hook shy fish out of their natural habitat.

Tactics - Beating the guy next door.

Physical ability - The gear is heavy.

Stamina - Its hard work sitting there in the sun for four hours.

How do you train the fore finger to pull those ring pulls HD?

Fishing, like most sports is heavily geared towards those with higher disposable income and as such is filled with gadgets for making life easier, little alarms which beep when a fish bites being a prime example.

Other gadgets include improvised lures to save finger ache.

meursault

SmoggySteve wrote:

If you go back a fee decades we had exceptional talented players like Chris Waddle, Matt Le Tissier , Peter Beardsley, John Barnes to name a few. They came through from playing schoolboy football with their mates in the park.

There were no world class coaches nurturing their ability they are just good. Probably cos they just went out and played all the time and developed their skills on the school playing fields. Granted the clubs would then pick them up and develop them but an integral piece has been lost in recent times. They don't play as much. They get less exposure to proper competitive football at any level and stagnate

Not bad players, but won nothing internationally, and didn't qualify for 1994 World Cup. We used to call Barnes 'Dangerous' for how bad he was for England, apart from that goal against Brazil. But then again, he probably just didn't want to play for England.

smoggysteve

Until recently Spain had won zero but we called them world class players

homers_double

bompington wrote:

fat daddy wrote:

Pinno wrote:

How do you train the fore finger to pull those ring pulls HD?

There are 2 schools of thought on this. The 1st is you only get better at doing something by doing it .. so you need to regularity open ring pulls and your body will adapt. then there is the new school thought which says working on accessory muscles like the core and doing strength training can massively increase ones ability to pull rings, so, in effect do sqyuats at the gym

I'm sorry, but this is absolute tripe. Everyone knows that it all depends on whether you have a Shimano groupset on the rod.

Thank you sir, I'm having that one for the next outing!

meursault

SmoggySteve wrote:

Until recently Spain had won zero but we called them world class players

Spain is a slightly different example. They don't typically have a strong national identity, when it comes to football.

smoggysteve

meursault wrote:

SmoggySteve wrote:

Until recently Spain had won zero but we called them world class players

Spain is a slightly different example. They don't typically have a strong national identity, when it comes to football.

Maybe so but they always produced quality players and won nothing. Go back to the 70's and early 80's we dominated European club football with hardly any foreign players in the teams. The game has changed but our grass roots approach has not followed

Tashman

cooldad wrote:

Harry-S wrote:

There's a lot skill in a 100m sprint, make no mistake. As this clip clearly shows:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GmmAUbfhMU

I found one of the OP training.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaqxIXs_mn4

Too many layers!

meursault

SmoggySteve wrote:

meursault wrote:

SmoggySteve wrote:

Until recently Spain had won zero but we called them world class players

Spain is a slightly different example. They don't typically have a strong national identity, when it comes to football.

Maybe so but they always produced quality players and won nothing. Go back to the 70's and early 80's we dominated European club football with hardly any foreign players in the teams. The game has changed but our grass roots approach has not followed

Agree about Spanish talent, but they won nothing, because those players didn't have their hearts in 'Spain', they are historically more regionally divided, until recently.

DavidJB

Worst troll I've seen in a long while D-. Can't believe some of you are reacting, it's like you've never been on the internet.

JesseD

I was just thinking that you have to hand it to b. 1998, he hasn't been active on the forum since the 3rd of Jan and this thread is still going.

I say well done sir!

smoggysteve

JesseD wrote:

I was just thinking that you have to hand it to b. 1998, he hasn't been active on the forum since the 3rd of Jan and this thread is still going.

I say well done sir!

Well, considering it was untouched for two days until you decided to say it was still active I am not to sure it was still going really.

robertpb

Gets out wooden stake and mallet.

pinno

Puts popcorn away.

JesseD

SmoggySteve wrote:

JesseD wrote:

I was just thinking that you have to hand it to b. 1998, he hasn't been active on the forum since the 3rd of Jan and this thread is still going.

I say well done sir!

Well, considering it was untouched for two days until you decided to say it was still active I am not to sure it was still going really.

Ha I never noticed that!

B. 1998 has brainwashed me!

diplodicus

B.1998 has turned Blond and is still active in road general

diamonddog

Still making daft posts, so no changes except his sign in.

pinno

A weak is a long time in cycling...

mac9091

Is this not from the same waster of an OP who claimed that it must be easy to become a pro a few weeks ago?

Hows that going for you bud, any phone calls from Team Sky? Or are you hoping that a new sponsor comes forward to have you as the team leader and build a team around you?