Cycling is a weak sport
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But Cody was weak, surviving soley on Salmonfish and faith.Advocate of disc brakes.0
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This 'sportsman' agrees wth OP.
http://road.cc/content/news/69775-andy-murray-slams-cycling-lack-skill-and-too-many-drugs%E2%80%A6-not-tennis
I'm trying to stay on the buddhist path, so resisting negatives, but I dislike Murray soooo much, even though I know it's irrational. All kinds of self help is being sought...
Good thread.Superstition sets the whole world in flames; philosophy quenches them.
Voltaire0 -
Is that Guy Peirce in that photo in the Panasonic top ?0
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meursault wrote:This 'sportsman' agrees wth OP.
http://road.cc/content/news/69775-andy-murray-slams-cycling-lack-skill-and-too-many-drugs%E2%80%A6-not-tennis
In 2012, well before tennis was hit by a doping scandle. I bet he regrets it now!Advocate of disc brakes.0 -
homers double wrote:meursault wrote:This 'sportsman' agrees wth OP.
http://road.cc/content/news/69775-andy-murray-slams-cycling-lack-skill-and-too-many-drugs%E2%80%A6-not-tennis
In 2012, well before tennis was hit by a doping scandle. I bet he regrets it now!
But he doesn't agree with the OP. He says it is physical, not skill based compared to a sport like tennis. Which is true. And that because of this, there has been a much bigger problem with doping in cycling than tennis. Which is almost certainly true.
Some of the details are not.0 -
The one in tennis can't hold a candal to the one in cycling thoughKingstonGraham wrote:In 2012, well before tennis was hit by a doping scandle.0 -
I always thought skill was 'the ability to do something well' be it cookery, tennis or cycling. You could argue tennis is co-ordination basedKingstonGraham wrote:homers double wrote:meursault wrote:This 'sportsman' agrees wth OP.
http://road.cc/content/news/69775-andy-murray-slams-cycling-lack-skill-and-too-many-drugs%E2%80%A6-not-tennis
In 2012, well before tennis was hit by a doping scandle. I bet he regrets it now!
But he doesn't agree with the OP. He says it is physical, not skill based compared to a sport like tennis. Which is true. And that because of this, there has been a much bigger problem with doping in cycling than tennis. Which is almost certainly true.
Some of the details are not.All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....0 -
bianchimoon wrote:
I always thought skill was 'the ability to do something well' be it cookery, tennis or cycling. You could argue tennis is co-ordination basedKingstonGraham wrote:homers double wrote:meursault wrote:This 'sportsman' agrees wth OP.
http://road.cc/content/news/69775-andy-murray-slams-cycling-lack-skill-and-too-many-drugs%E2%80%A6-not-tennis
In 2012, well before tennis was hit by a doping scandle. I bet he regrets it now!
But he doesn't agree with the OP. He says it is physical, not skill based compared to a sport like tennis. Which is true. And that because of this, there has been a much bigger problem with doping in cycling than tennis. Which is almost certainly true.
Some of the details are not.
You know what he means.0 -
Well Murray is just stupid as well as not having enough knowledge of cycling to make such a comment. As if tactics don't play a huge part in winning a bike race.
“I think there's very little skill involved in the Tour de France, it's pretty much just physical," said Murray, quoted in the Herald. A lot of the way the teams work now is just science whereas with tennis, you can't teach the skill by taking a drug"
There is a skill in timing an effort or sustaining a TT. Most offten the fittest man/woman does not win a cycle race (Re.: Franco Bellerini vs Duclos-Lassalle PR for just one example). The one who wins is the one that conserves energy by the best method he can and making the move at the right time. Drugs won't help you (directly) make the right decision.
When he gets to the point of not being able to physically sustain top level tennis, then he will fade away no matter how tactically astute or technically proficient he is. Besides, the pro season in tennis is so long, there is no way a tennis pro wouldn't benefit from some 'assistance'. Especially if that 'assistance' goes some way to preventing injury (Re. Nadal, Djokovic). It's often injury that curtails a tennis player's career and if I stick my head out, perhaps more often than pro cyclists. I dare say the frequency is probably the same but my point wouldn't be lost anyway.
That may require a little bit of research, I know but Murray can do one the miserable, dour Scot.
Just play tennis Andy and keep your funereal mouth shut.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
bianchimoon wrote:
I always thought skill was 'the ability to do something well' be it cookery, tennis or cycling. You could argue tennis is co-ordination basedKingstonGraham wrote:homers double wrote:meursault wrote:This 'sportsman' agrees wth OP.
http://road.cc/content/news/69775-andy-murray-slams-cycling-lack-skill-and-too-many-drugs%E2%80%A6-not-tennis
In 2012, well before tennis was hit by a doping scandle. I bet he regrets it now!
But he doesn't agree with the OP. He says it is physical, not skill based compared to a sport like tennis. Which is true. And that because of this, there has been a much bigger problem with doping in cycling than tennis. Which is almost certainly true.
Some of the details are not.
Where is the skill to run 100 metres in under 9 seconds?
Where is the skill to swim your way to 20 gold medals
You still need good technique which is just as difficult to master as a perceived skill.0 -
Not to mention the skill required to ride in a pro peloton.Superstition sets the whole world in flames; philosophy quenches them.
Voltaire0 -
I think Andy Murray should consider himself blessed to live in a stupid country which gives him a knighthood for a few years of being better than average at his sport. Sure Wiggo got his but again for not much in my eyes but at least his reward was for many more years at the pinnacle of his sport.
Actors usually don't get knighted until their 50's earliest. Scientists or public servants can wait just as long. Andy get his for 4 years good work in which time half his major rivals have been crocked or on the slide after longer more illustrious careers than he could ever dream of.0 -
I think he probably considers himself bewildered that he lives in a country that still makes people knights at all.0
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Didn't he vote for independence? Would an independent scotland still have such an archaic system of awards?KingstonGraham wrote:I think he probably considers himself bewildered that he lives in a country that still makes people knights at all.All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....0 -
The Op talks about physical and skill based sports like boxing and tennis, then about "games" like chess. Inadvertently, he has both hit upon, and yet failed to grasp what makes cycling so tough : It's a unique mix of all of theses skill sets. Cerebral, physical, and skillfull. Added to which is the aspect that makes it truly unique - it's relentless. No break between serves, no bell between rounds, no half time, no calm reflection with a timer to think out the next move... If he thinks it's not skills based than surely he's never seen a great descender carve down a narrow winding mountain pass @ 100KPM.
Think chess game, juggling all the options and possible scenarios in your head whilst physically fighting for breath @ 30 mph , jostling for position and trying to keep your eye on "serves" from multiple other "players" - all the time thinking out moves that may well still be several hours up the road and metering out ones scarce energy resources accordingly...
In his head cycling is not tough enough : too tough for him to get his head around though, eh.0 -
MikeBrew wrote:The Op talks about physical and skill based sports like boxing and tennis, then about "games" like chess. Inadvertently, he has both hit upon, and yet failed to grasp what makes cycling so tough : It's a unique mix of all of theses skill sets. Cerebral, physical, and skillfull. Added to which is the aspect that makes it truly unique - it's relentless. No break between serves, no bell between rounds, no half time, no calm reflection with a timer to think out the next move... If he thinks it's not skills based than surely he's never seen a great descender carve down a narrow winding mountain pass @ 100KPM.
Think chess game, juggling all the options and possible scenarios in your head whilst physically fighting for breath @ 30 mph , jostling for position and trying to keep your eye on "serves" from multiple other "players" - all the time thinking out moves that may well still be several hours up the road and metering out ones scarce energy resources accordingly...
In his head cycling is not tough enough : too tough for him to get his head around though, eh.
Eloquently put sir!Superstition sets the whole world in flames; philosophy quenches them.
Voltaire0 -
bianchimoon wrote:
Didn't he vote for independence? Would an independent scotland still have such an archaic system of awards?KingstonGraham wrote:I think he probably considers himself bewildered that he lives in a country that still makes people knights at all.
William Wallace was knighted in Scotland in 1297.
But probably no, if it's up to the SNP.0 -
MikeBrew wrote:Added to which is the aspect that makes it truly unique - it's relentless.
Very true.0 -
Sports range from such a diverse range of physical types to those more skill based. Tennis is a balanced blend of skill and physical strength and stamina much as football is but then there is golf which is not very physical but very highly skill and technique based. Cricket is not overly physical but to have an eye to hit a ball coming at you are nearly 100mph is a pretty difficult skill to master. Or darts which is pretty much pure skill
Cycling is very physical but overall not massively skilful but you still need to be able to judge other teams tactics, know when to attempt a break away etc.
Then as I mentioned earlier, athletics is pretty much run,jump,throw as far or fast as you can. Not much skill at running 100 meters flat out but no one poo poo's Usain Bolts achievements0 -
I'd argue that a fast bowler is a pretty physical life! And the adaptions to sprinting technique, much like most sports can make huge differences in both speed and impact on the body. Biomechanics can be applied to any physical activity, the skill is making the most of themSmoggySteve wrote:Sports range from such a diverse range of physical types to those more skill based. Tennis is a balanced blend of skill and physical strength and stamina much as football is but then there is golf which is not very physical but very highly skill and technique based. Cricket is not overly physical but to have an eye to hit a ball coming at you are nearly 100mph is a pretty difficult skill to master. Or darts which is pretty much pure skill
Cycling is very physical but overall not massively skilful but you still need to be able to judge other teams tactics, know when to attempt a break away etc.
Then as I mentioned earlier, athletics is pretty much run,jump,throw as far or fast as you can. Not much skill at running 100 metres flat out but no one poo poo's Usain Bolts achievements0 -
Tashman wrote:
I'd argue that a fast bowler is a pretty physical life! And the adaptions to sprinting technique, much like most sports can make huge differences in both speed and impact on the body. Biomechanics can be applied to any physical activity, the skill is making the most of themSmoggySteve wrote:Sports range from such a diverse range of physical types to those more skill based. Tennis is a balanced blend of skill and physical strength and stamina much as football is but then there is golf which is not very physical but very highly skill and technique based. Cricket is not overly physical but to have an eye to hit a ball coming at you are nearly 100mph is a pretty difficult skill to master. Or darts which is pretty much pure skill
Cycling is very physical but overall not massively skilful but you still need to be able to judge other teams tactics, know when to attempt a break away etc.
Then as I mentioned earlier, athletics is pretty much run,jump,throw as far or fast as you can. Not much skill at running 100 metres flat out but no one poo poo's Usain Bolts achievements
I agree with you there. Fast bowlers are quite physically demanding positions. Sprinting 6 times with a short rest again and again over a whole day must take a lot out of you. For many things biomechanics are something the body learns like muscle memory. There is not much mental application other than developing the technique which in itself is a skill so it's true in a sense0 -
Plenty of skill, technique and physicality involved in 100m sprint. Bolt is a good blend of all three with a mental strength to cope with the stress of the start. If you doubt that check out documentaries about sprint training. There's certainly technique and the skill needed to master them involved in that discipline.
I don't know what people think about this tendency to pit or compare one sport against another. There's so much going on in most sports that casual observers don't know about. We should not criticise other sports because of our high estimation of the sports we like. There is merit in all sports and at the highest levels there is always a mix of skill, technique, physical performance and mental performance / strength. Value them even if you don't know what that mix is0 -
Stupid comments from Murray. He's played a lot of 4+ hour matches in 40 degree heat with minimal drop off in standard. Tennis players rarely get tested, and the sport's participants would benefit hugely from the extra stamina gained by doping.
Like football, tennis is most probably a filthy sport.
All sports have a degree of skill, and most require a physical and mental element too, just in different balances.0 -
SmoggySteve wrote:Cycling is very physical but overall not massively skilful but you still need to be able to judge other teams tactics, know when to attempt a break away etc.
I would disagree with this, there is a huge amount of skill in a bunch sprint for example where you are navigating several other riders all riding at 40mph all aiming for a win, or as has been previously mentioned descending a mountain at 60mph and in reality not knowing the roads all that well so you are relying on your reactions and bike handling skills, even riding in the middle of a bunch takes skill, that's why the majority of the general public couldn't do it with out practicing, look at the difference between Cat 1 riders and Cat 4 riders, I know where I would rather ride.Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!0 -
There's a lot skill in a 100m sprint, make no mistake. As this clip clearly shows:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GmmAUbfhMU0 -
If sprint disciplines and Athletics isn't mentally demanding then why are most top athletes highly intelligent and articulate individuals?
My all time favourite athlete is Michael Johnson. I defy anyone to find a more accomplished, skilled, physical, intelligent and talented athlete let alone 400m runner. Indeed i would hold him up against any sportsman, or woman, in the modern history of sporting endeavour. Just my opinion.
Skill, tactics, ability, dedication, skill, knowledge of the discipline, focus, mental strength, etc. He had it all. He's s pretty good coach, mentor and probably one of the best sporting pundits around. BBC got a real coup hiring him years back.0 -
JesseD wrote:SmoggySteve wrote:Cycling is very physical but overall not massively skilful but you still need to be able to judge other teams tactics, know when to attempt a break away etc.
I would disagree with this, there is a huge amount of skill in a bunch sprint for example where you are navigating several other riders all riding at 40mph all aiming for a win, or as has been previously mentioned descending a mountain at 60mph and in reality not knowing the roads all that well so you are relying on your reactions and bike handling skills, even riding in the middle of a bunch takes skill, that's why the majority of the general public couldn't do it with out practicing, look at the difference between Cat 1 riders and Cat 4 riders, I know where I would rather ride.
Getting back to the point of the debate. Its the ratio of skill vs physical ability that differs. I'm not suggesting Cycling has littlecor no skill. Far from it. I'm saying that if you look at various sports they all that varying ratios of each which imo the great diversity of sport. I'm 5,6" so I was never going to become a basketball player but in Cycling I found a sport I can find a level I can compete at. Nurture vs nature is different in all and all sports have varying levels of each. No sport deserves to be classed as better than another just because it is more one than the other0 -
Tangled Metal wrote:If sprint disciplines and Athletics isn't mentally demanding then why are most top athletes highly intelligent and articulate individuals?
My all time favourite athlete is Michael Johnson. I defy anyone to find a more accomplished, skilled, physical, intelligent and talented athlete let alone 400m runner. Indeed i would hold him up against any sportsman, or woman, in the modern history of sporting endeavour. Just my opinion.
Skill, tactics, ability, dedication, skill, knowledge of the discipline, focus, mental strength, etc. He had it all. He's s pretty good coach, mentor and probably one of the best sporting pundits around. BBC got a real coup hiring him years back.
I see where you are going but would you say footballers are intellectually brilliant? They are still highly skilful in their jobs0
