eTap : worth it or it's just a poser thing ?

StillGoing

One or two people are in need of one of these for the frigging hole they're digging for themselves. :roll:

meanredspider

philthy3 wrote:

One or two people are in need of one of these for the frigging hole they're digging for themselves. :roll:

Ha - I don't think you'll dig much of a hole with that! It might make a great getaway car but that's the JCB GT - saw that at Silverstone so many years ago it's sad....

stueys

dennisn wrote:

Stueys wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Stueys wrote:

but it does improve every part of the shifting experience.

To be honest, I can't even express how stupid that sounds to me. "...the shifting experience."? WTF is "...the shifting experience."?

Sorry, I assumed that most people on here had at least a vague vocabulary. Or maybe access to google so they could get by in life.

So, is it a tingly, feel good experience? Or more of a deeply transcendental one in which you must "become the shift lever'?

Ahhhh, I've worked out your interpretation of language. You work for an American marketing company, probably in the theme park area?

meanredspider

What I love about the "Di2 shifting experience" is that there's almost no "experience" at all. I literally twitch the appropriate finger (I tend to rest my middle and ring fingers on each of the switches when riding on the hoods) and the shift is done. It's as close to CVT as you can get. I'd happily ride "full auto" on a bike if I could. Riding a bike isn't about changing gears - I guess that's part of the reason that SS is popular - it is for me.

shortfall

meanredspider wrote:

What I love about the "Di2 shifting experience" is that there's almost no "experience" at all. I literally twitch the appropriate finger (I tend to rest my middle and ring fingers on each of the switches when riding on the hoods) and the shift is done. It's as close to CVT as you can get. I'd happily ride "full auto" on a bike if I could. Riding a bike isn't about changing gears - I guess that's part of the reason that SS is popular - it is for me.

Well each to their own. I test rode a Dura ace di2 equipped bike a few years ago and hated the lack of feel the system gave. Maybe that is something I could get used to but I like the tactile feel of my Campagnolo mechanical and the positive clunk I get with each shift. I can't put into words why I enjoy this but I do. It's probably the same reason I prefer driving a manual car to an automatic or why I lust after Ferraris rather than Nissan Skyline's, it's an emotional thing that has no rational thought behind it. I haven't used Campagnolo EPS but I've played around with it in the LBS and the effort Campag have gone to to make the button have a positive click really feels good. It's like when you pop bubble wrap. It's utterly pointless but it feels good!

Hinaultscrapcousin

noodleman wrote:

When I'm on the rivet in a pace paceline I'm certainly never in the small ring. You can't shift both derailleurs simultaneously but you can hold both shifters to change the front ring then release one shifter whilst holding the other to continue shifting the rear cassette in the desired direction. Maybe not as instant as di2 but certainly not something that bothers me personally.
You may see the issues you've discussed as problems but there's certainly more problems from my point of view with di2. Lack of feel on the shift buttons, buttons being close together and shifting the wrong way being a common annoyance (for me). Constant problems with damp affecting my internal battery, second junction box being a major hassle to access when wiring problems arise (having this issue now) expensive batteries compared to etap. Size of batteries, particularly external ones being difficult to carry a spare. Battery dies and you're screwed (not a ride ending problem with etap). Extra wires and junction boxes look messy compared to etap's clean look. Di2 does shift slightly quicker at the rear but this so far is the only positive I've found in the system compared to sram. I ride both systems and these are only my personal findings and preferences but I'd happily go back to mechanical from di2 but definitely wouldn't want to go back to mechanical from etap.

Can't argue with any of that, sounds like Di2 has been a pain for you. I'd be hesitant to compare reliability at the moment, but I can certainly see eTap being easier to chase down problems with, although possibly more expensive as it might involve replacing whole mechs etc. Fingers crossed it is reliable for you.

I actually think shifting speed between the two is irrelevant. It'll matter to pros but not us. I just think Sram have limited themselves needlessly with their redesign of the shifting pattern but then, with their war on the FD, i can kind of understand it. I think all of the problems I have with the system would disappear if they had stuck with two levers per shifter.

mroli

Just a thought on the (presumably rare) etap broken lever thing. Would blips not solve this?

I guess on both bikes if you've broken a lever you're down one brake which is less than ideal....

mroli

Flasher wrote:

From a purely aesthetic viewpoint etap looks nice, worth 2 grand no way.

If you're already on sram, it's 'only' £1k for the upgrade set though(!).
(Nb for that you can buy an ultegra equipped build your own bike from Planet X)

Hinaultscrapcousin

mroli wrote:

Just a thought on the (presumably rare) etap broken lever thing. Would blips not solve this?

I guess on both bikes if you've broken a lever you're down one brake which is less than ideal....

I suppose it depends how it breaks, blips would rely on the electronics in the lever still functioning, good point though. I don't know if the blips shift the front mech, you would assume so though.

dennisn

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

mroli wrote:

Just a thought on the (presumably rare) etap broken lever thing. Would blips not solve this?

I guess on both bikes if you've broken a lever you're down one brake which is less than ideal....

I suppose it depends how it breaks, blips would rely on the electronics in the lever still functioning, good point though. I don't know if the blips shift the front mech, you would assume so though.

Why does this conversation remind me of a couple of kids playing a video game?

meanredspider

dennisn wrote:

Why does this conversation remind me of a couple of kids playing a video game?

Cos you know nothing about kids playing video games? Just a guess

mroli

meanredspider wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Why does this conversation remind me of a couple of kids playing a video game?

Cos you know nothing about kids playing video games? Just a guess

Video games - Saving the world since 'wargames'! A film even of Dennis' vintage?

Etap would be blooming marvellous on tandems where long cable run can affect shifting. Especially with wifili. Also, fantastic on S&S coupled / Ritchey breakaway bikes where you'd only need to cable the rear brake with a splitter.