eTap : worth it or it's just a poser thing ?

dennisn

Isn't all this electronic stuff pretty much poser and show-off gear? Other than owning IT and keeping up with the Jones, does it make you a better, more talented, faster, rider? Nope, despite buying all the electronics in the world you'll still be just average at best.

noodleman

dennisn wrote:

Isn't all this electronic stuff pretty much poser and show-off gear? Other than owning IT and keeping up with the Jones, does it make you a better, more talented, faster, rider? Nope, despite buying all the electronics in the world you'll still be just average at best.

Yeah! Same goes for carbon frames, discs, compact bars and every other advancement in cycling. Why on earth would anyone want to get any pleasure out of buying cool tech for their bike. After all, if it doesn't make you faster what's the point? In fact, if you're not a pro rider, what's the point in cycling at all?

dennisn

noodleman wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Isn't all this electronic stuff pretty much poser and show-off gear? Other than owning IT and keeping up with the Jones, does it make you a better, more talented, faster, rider? Nope, despite buying all the electronics in the world you'll still be just average at best.

Yeah! Same goes for carbon frames, discs, compact bars and every other advancement in cycling. Why on earth would anyone want to get any pleasure out of buying cool tech for their bike. After all, if it doesn't make you faster what's the point? In fact, if you're not a pro rider, what's the point in cycling at all?

Right. Buy all the cool stuff you want. I'm just saying that it's all poser and show-off stuff. None of it will make you a better cyclist. You will, however, become a better "hey, look how cool I am" person. At least in your own mind.

noodleman

dennisn wrote:

noodleman wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Isn't all this electronic stuff pretty much poser and show-off gear? Other than owning IT and keeping up with the Jones, does it make you a better, more talented, faster, rider? Nope, despite buying all the electronics in the world you'll still be just average at best.

Yeah! Same goes for carbon frames, discs, compact bars and every other advancement in cycling. Why on earth would anyone want to get any pleasure out of buying cool tech for their bike. After all, if it doesn't make you faster what's the point? In fact, if you're not a pro rider, what's the point in cycling at all?

Right. Buy all the cool stuff you want. I'm just saying that it's all poser and show-off stuff. None of it will make you a better cyclist. You will, however, become a better "hey, look how cool I am" person. At least in your own mind.

And I'm guessing you have a portable black and white TV, a 1980's ford escort and live in a bedsit? Because upgrading any of those things will not make you a better judge of films, a better driver or a more highly regarded member of your neighbourhood. Not everyone buys things purely to impress others. Maybe some people buy cool stuff for their own pleasure.

dennisn

noodleman wrote:

dennisn wrote:

noodleman wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Isn't all this electronic stuff pretty much poser and show-off gear? Other than owning IT and keeping up with the Jones, does it make you a better, more talented, faster, rider? Nope, despite buying all the electronics in the world you'll still be just average at best.

Yeah! Same goes for carbon frames, discs, compact bars and every other advancement in cycling. Why on earth would anyone want to get any pleasure out of buying cool tech for their bike. After all, if it doesn't make you faster what's the point? In fact, if you're not a pro rider, what's the point in cycling at all?

Right. Buy all the cool stuff you want. I'm just saying that it's all poser and show-off stuff. None of it will make you a better cyclist. You will, however, become a better "hey, look how cool I am" person. At least in your own mind.

And I'm guessing you have a portable black and white TV, a 1980's ford escort and live in a bedsit? Because upgrading any of those things will not make you a better judge of films, a better driver or a more highly regarded member of your neighbourhood. Not everyone buys things purely to impress others. Maybe some people buy cool stuff for their own pleasure.

Take it one step further. Their own pleasure depends on what others think of them. Nothing attracts attention to yourself like new shiny bits. Others see this and grunt their approval. That's the point of it all. It's no big deal though. We ALL do it.

meanredspider

dennisn wrote:

Right. Buy all the cool stuff you want. I'm just saying that it's all poser and show-off stuff. None of it will make you a better cyclist. You will, however, become a better "hey, look how cool I am" person. At least in your own mind.

So I do 99% of my riding on my own as far away from as many people as I can get - I'm not getting much value out of my "hey, look how cool I am" investment, am I? That's because it's total nonsense.

In fact I'd say in the road cycling game there's so much conservatism (a kind of inverse snobbery - especially when so many people are concerned about the aesthetics of their "ride") that I'd say quite the opposite to your view holds true: "hey look at me - none of that electronic shifting or disc brakes for this cool kid"

I got electronic shifting and disc brakes when I was doing a daily 50k RT Highland rural commute - often in the dark. Guess why? Cos it works better

StillGoing

dennisn wrote:

noodleman wrote:

dennisn wrote:

noodleman wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Isn't all this electronic stuff pretty much poser and show-off gear? Other than owning IT and keeping up with the Jones, does it make you a better, more talented, faster, rider? Nope, despite buying all the electronics in the world you'll still be just average at best.

Yeah! Same goes for carbon frames, discs, compact bars and every other advancement in cycling. Why on earth would anyone want to get any pleasure out of buying cool tech for their bike. After all, if it doesn't make you faster what's the point? In fact, if you're not a pro rider, what's the point in cycling at all?

Right. Buy all the cool stuff you want. I'm just saying that it's all poser and show-off stuff. None of it will make you a better cyclist. You will, however, become a better "hey, look how cool I am" person. At least in your own mind.

And I'm guessing you have a portable black and white TV, a 1980's ford escort and live in a bedsit? Because upgrading any of those things will not make you a better judge of films, a better driver or a more highly regarded member of your neighbourhood. Not everyone buys things purely to impress others. Maybe some people buy cool stuff for their own pleasure.

Take it one step further. Their own pleasure depends on what others think of them. Nothing attracts attention to yourself like new shiny bits. Others see this and grunt their approval. That's the point of it all. It's no big deal though. We ALL do it.

That might be true of psychopaths, but if I splash out on something, it is for my own pleasure and I couldn't give a fek what anyone else thinks.

dennisn

Devastazione2 wrote:

Been to Dura Ace 9000,Ultegra 6700 ( horrible),tested extensively a Ui2 and I'm now perfectly happy with a 105 on my Diverge. My next bike purchase comes either with the next to retirement Ultegra or the mighty SRAM eTap. I don't race at all but my rides are short and punchy. Is the eTap really worth the money or the coolness factor ? I like the geeky idea but since I'm not a millennial I don't think I can stand another device to plug in..

I've got a second question for you. Are you asking is it worth it as a poser thing? Not really, After all, pretty soon everyone will have it, or something like like it, so you'll have nothing to brag about. Your best bet, with the money you seem to have, is buy the next great thing the minute it comes out. The minute the next, next great thing comes out, buy it and pitch the old next great thing. This will get you noticed. No one cares if you ONLY have 2 year old stuff on your bike. Got to be the very latest, otherwise no one cares.

meanredspider

Loving the hobby horse, dennisn.

He might just want it because it works better and he'll spend less time fettling his bike and more time riding it - that might make him a better rider...

dennisn

philthy3 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

noodleman wrote:

dennisn wrote:

noodleman wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Isn't all this electronic stuff pretty much poser and show-off gear? Other than owning IT and keeping up with the Jones, does it make you a better, more talented, faster, rider? Nope, despite buying all the electronics in the world you'll still be just average at best.

Yeah! Same goes for carbon frames, discs, compact bars and every other advancement in cycling. Why on earth would anyone want to get any pleasure out of buying cool tech for their bike. After all, if it doesn't make you faster what's the point? In fact, if you're not a pro rider, what's the point in cycling at all?

Right. Buy all the cool stuff you want. I'm just saying that it's all poser and show-off stuff. None of it will make you a better cyclist. You will, however, become a better "hey, look how cool I am" person. At least in your own mind.

And I'm guessing you have a portable black and white TV, a 1980's ford escort and live in a bedsit? Because upgrading any of those things will not make you a better judge of films, a better driver or a more highly regarded member of your neighbourhood. Not everyone buys things purely to impress others. Maybe some people buy cool stuff for their own pleasure.

Take it one step further. Their own pleasure depends on what others think of them. Nothing attracts attention to yourself like new shiny bits. Others see this and grunt their approval. That's the point of it all. It's no big deal though. We ALL do it.

That might be true of psychopaths, but if I splash out on something, it is for my own pleasure and I couldn't give a fek what anyone else thinks.

Don't think so. Everyone wants to be noticed and new and shiny tends to make it happen.

meanredspider

dennisn wrote:

Don't think so. Everyone wants to be noticed and new and shiny tends to make it happen.

Blimey - strange and shallow view of the world

dennisn

meanredspider wrote:

Loving the hobby horse, dennisn.

He might just want it because it works better and he'll spend less time fettling his bike and more time riding it - that might make him a better rider...

Please. the guy was bad mouthing quality products that work very well for 99.99% of the people who buy them. Also, if he's working on them then it's his fault they don't work. He's either ham fisted or doesn't have a clue. Or the whole post has been a troll. In any case buying new stuff won't solve his problem. Unless he's buying them to show off.

dennisn

meanredspider wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Don't think so. Everyone wants to be noticed and new and shiny tends to make it happen.

Blimey - strange and shallow view of the world

Tell me you don't buy stuff to be noticed? New phones, new cars, new bikes, new clothes, etc.

meanredspider

dennisn wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Loving the hobby horse, dennisn.

He might just want it because it works better and he'll spend less time fettling his bike and more time riding it - that might make him a better rider...

Please. the guy was bad mouthing quality products that work very well for 99.99% of the people who buy them. Also, if he's working on them then it's his fault they don't work. He's either ham fisted or doesn't have a clue. Or the whole post has been a troll. In any case buying new stuff won't solve his problem. Unless he's buying them to show off.

Well you might have a point there. I was somehow distracted by your belief that people seemingly want to buy new and shiny stuff just to show off. To cut the OP some slack though, he did ask if it's just poser value.

shortfall

Cyclists seem pretty conservative as a group and there is definitely plenty of inverted snobbery from types who ride 10 speed steel bikes with toe clips and straps. That being said, from my point of view the cost differentia to upgrade to electronic shifting is still way to high to justify any marginal improvements over mechanical systems there might be. An earlier poster drew an analogy that resisting electronic shifting would be like sticking with ford escorts and black and white TVs and so on. I don't think that's quite true because the cars and TVs that replaced them are so superior and probably even cheaper that making the change was a no brainier, whereas mechanical shifting is still functionally a very cheap and effective system that means spending heaps more on a system offering very marginal improvements is not so clear cut. For those who want cutting edge tech and who have the cash then I have no problem with them switching to disc brakes, di2, etap and carbon wheels etc. However the Luddites have a point when they say it's what's in your legs that really matters. Vive la difference!

meanredspider

dennisn wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Don't think so. Everyone wants to be noticed and new and shiny tends to make it happen.

Blimey - strange and shallow view of the world

Tell me you don't buy stuff to be noticed? New phones, new cars, new bikes, new clothes, etc.

Unfortunately no, hardly ever. Mrs MRS does her best on the clothes and shoes front for me but it's a losing battle. Hardly spent a penny on the bikes this year. I bought a 10 year old Merc earlier this year and a newer one more recently (though actually went for the smallest engine and most neutral colour). I get teased by my mates because my old Alfa race car is one of the shabbiest-looking on the grid.

For me, life is all about experiences rather than stuff. The stuff is just a means to an end. I spend mostly on utility - the Alfa might be shabby but it's quick, for instance. None of my cycling gear matches but it does the job well.

Spending time and money on what people think gets you focusing on the wrong stuff. Focus on people and experiences.

StillGoing

dennisn wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

noodleman wrote:

dennisn wrote:

noodleman wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Isn't all this electronic stuff pretty much poser and show-off gear? Other than owning IT and keeping up with the Jones, does it make you a better, more talented, faster, rider? Nope, despite buying all the electronics in the world you'll still be just average at best.

Yeah! Same goes for carbon frames, discs, compact bars and every other advancement in cycling. Why on earth would anyone want to get any pleasure out of buying cool tech for their bike. After all, if it doesn't make you faster what's the point? In fact, if you're not a pro rider, what's the point in cycling at all?

Right. Buy all the cool stuff you want. I'm just saying that it's all poser and show-off stuff. None of it will make you a better cyclist. You will, however, become a better "hey, look how cool I am" person. At least in your own mind.

And I'm guessing you have a portable black and white TV, a 1980's ford escort and live in a bedsit? Because upgrading any of those things will not make you a better judge of films, a better driver or a more highly regarded member of your neighbourhood. Not everyone buys things purely to impress others. Maybe some people buy cool stuff for their own pleasure.

Take it one step further. Their own pleasure depends on what others think of them. Nothing attracts attention to yourself like new shiny bits. Others see this and grunt their approval. That's the point of it all. It's no big deal though. We ALL do it.

That might be true of psychopaths, but if I splash out on something, it is for my own pleasure and I couldn't give a fek what anyone else thinks.

Don't think so. Everyone wants to be noticed and new and shiny tends to make it happen.

You really shouldn't judge others by your view of the world. If I buy something, it's either because its the best product for my needs, or what I can afford or for my pleasure. It isn't for anyone else to enjoy or slate, it isn't to impress anyone (got a great big diesel 4x4 in my garage which is no doubt pissing a lot of people off rather than impressing them, especially on here), or somehow elevate my status among my peers. There are people that buy expensive cars or art, lock them away and enjoy them for themselves, never exposing them to the outside world. Are they trying to impress anyone? No. They buy them for their own enjoyment and don't care if anyone else knows they have them.

Now I like eTap, but as already posted by me, it simply doesn't suit my needs. I'd be no better off than continuing to use my mechanical groupsets. If I bought things for pose value alone, I'd be buying eTap.

bernithebiker

Arguing the toss with Dennisn is like a blunt needle.

Pointless.

dennisn

bernithebiker wrote:

Arguing the toss with Dennisn is like a blunt needle.

Pointless.

Isn't a forum all about argument and debate?

bernithebiker

dennisn wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

Arguing the toss with Dennisn is like a blunt needle.

Pointless.

Isn't a forum all about argument and debate?

Yes, but your sweeping statement that all those with Di2 have it only because they want to 'pose' is a bit, well, silly, frankly.

I got it (and I was quite late to the party) because I perceived a net benefit in better shifting and less maintenance with more functionality. And I like gadgets.

Not to pose. I think it looks quite ugly in fact, worse than 9000.

And I'm no Di2 fanboy - it's good, but it's not perfect; all these firmware updates are a pain in the ass (not the donkey kind), and support is poor.

mroli

Ha. I've just read through the 4 pages of this and it has basically boiled down to a Shimano v Sram discussion and a Luddite v Posey Twat argument.

The only thing it is missing is a Campagnolo is better spin off argument!

noodleman

mroli wrote:

Ha. I've just read through the 4 pages of this and it has basically boiled down to a Shimano v Sram discussion and a Luddite v Posey fool argument.

The only thing it is missing is a Campagnolo is better spin off argument!

That's because everyone already knows campag is better

Devastazione2

NapoleonD wrote:

Invaluable input from the OP. Who wants etap to ride his bike at leisure for an hour.

On the opposite your input is quite valuable indeed. I keep reading every single letter out of it but it keeps washing away like water from my hands. On top of that it's so sad you're so concerned about someone else life,you must have a really sad one.


Ok fine people,since our friend is so concerned here : I go ride for a couple of hours with my eTap,can I slam shifts quick and dirty like I'm used to with my DA 9000 or this wireless thing is still some beta shit ??

meanredspider

mroli wrote:

Ha. I've just read through the 4 pages of this and it has basically boiled down to a Shimano v Sram discussion

That's a bit like characterising WW2 and a fight between people that speak English and the rest. It's kinda loosely accurate but somewhat misses the point...

dennisn

bernithebiker wrote:

dennisn wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

Arguing the toss with Dennisn is like a blunt needle.

Pointless.

Isn't a forum all about argument and debate?

Yes, but your sweeping statement that all those with Di2 have it only because they want to 'pose' is a bit, well, silly, frankly.

I got it (and I was quite late to the party) because I perceived a net benefit in better shifting and less maintenance with more functionality. And I like gadgets.

Not to pose. I think it looks quite ugly in fact, worse than 9000.

And I'm no Di2 fanboy - it's good, but it's not perfect; all these firmware updates are a pain in the ass (not the donkey kind), and support is poor.

I'm simply arguing that people buy these things out of vanity(poser) and the wows they think they will get from it all. They must look like and ride the so called "Pro" stuff. You're arguing that they buy it because it's better stuff. That i don't buy. They THINK and have been told it's better and therefore they must have it or be looked down upon. Can't have that. Their whole train of thought revolves around it's new, it's expensive, therefore it's better AND cool. I will say that IMHO most of this revolves around younger riders(and some older ones) trying to impress and fit in.

noodleman

dennisn wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

dennisn wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

Arguing the toss with Dennisn is like a blunt needle.

Pointless.

Isn't a forum all about argument and debate?

Yes, but your sweeping statement that all those with Di2 have it only because they want to 'pose' is a bit, well, silly, frankly.

I got it (and I was quite late to the party) because I perceived a net benefit in better shifting and less maintenance with more functionality. And I like gadgets.

Not to pose. I think it looks quite ugly in fact, worse than 9000.

And I'm no Di2 fanboy - it's good, but it's not perfect; all these firmware updates are a pain in the ass (not the donkey kind), and support is poor.

I'm simply arguing that people buy these things out of vanity(poser) and the wows they think they will get from it all. They must look like and ride the so called "Pro" stuff. You're arguing that they buy it because it's better stuff. That i don't buy. They THINK and have been told it's better and therefore they must have it or be looked down upon. Can't have that. Their whole train of thought revolves around it's new, it's expensive, therefore it's better AND cool. I will say that IMHO most of this revolves around younger riders(and some older ones) trying to impress and fit in.

What an utterly condescending load of twaddle!

dennisn

noodleman wrote:

dennisn wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

dennisn wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

Arguing the toss with Dennisn is like a blunt needle.

Pointless.

Isn't a forum all about argument and debate?

Yes, but your sweeping statement that all those with Di2 have it only because they want to 'pose' is a bit, well, silly, frankly.

I got it (and I was quite late to the party) because I perceived a net benefit in better shifting and less maintenance with more functionality. And I like gadgets.

Not to pose. I think it looks quite ugly in fact, worse than 9000.

And I'm no Di2 fanboy - it's good, but it's not perfect; all these firmware updates are a pain in the ass (not the donkey kind), and support is poor.

I'm simply arguing that people buy these things out of vanity(poser) and the wows they think they will get from it all. They must look like and ride the so called "Pro" stuff. You're arguing that they buy it because it's better stuff. That i don't buy. They THINK and have been told it's better and therefore they must have it or be looked down upon. Can't have that. Their whole train of thought revolves around it's new, it's expensive, therefore it's better AND cool. I will say that IMHO most of this revolves around younger riders(and some older ones) trying to impress and fit in.

What an utterly condescending load of twaddle!

To be honest, I know i may be full of shit but it's the way i think. Call it old age grumpiness, if you will.

Devastazione2

dennisn wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

dennisn wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

Arguing the toss with Dennisn is like a blunt needle.

Pointless.

Isn't a forum all about argument and debate?

Yes, but your sweeping statement that all those with Di2 have it only because they want to 'pose' is a bit, well, silly, frankly.

I got it (and I was quite late to the party) because I perceived a net benefit in better shifting and less maintenance with more functionality. And I like gadgets.

Not to pose. I think it looks quite ugly in fact, worse than 9000.

And I'm no Di2 fanboy - it's good, but it's not perfect; all these firmware updates are a pain in the ass (not the donkey kind), and support is poor.

I'm simply arguing that people buy these things out of vanity(poser) and the wows they think they will get from it all. They must look like and ride the so called "Pro" stuff. You're arguing that they buy it because it's better stuff. That i don't buy. They THINK and have been told it's better and therefore they must have it or be looked down upon. Can't have that. Their whole train of thought revolves around it's new, it's expensive, therefore it's better AND cool. I will say that IMHO most of this revolves around younger riders(and some older ones) trying to impress and fit in.

Not true. Yeah there's posers out there but nothing wrong in testing what tomorrow will be cheap. What I meant when started this was " ok it's poser but it's at least a bit of fun too ? "

perfectmark

meanredspider wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

Apparently, there is only 1 half decent Windows emulator for Mac, but it's like 100 Euros or something, and I'm not paying that.

I like to run my shifter buttons inversed so I have to connect up to change them. And if you don't upgrade firmware you're going to have an issue at some point.

You can simply run Windows from Bootcamp if you don't want a VM - though I've used Parallels in the past.

Yes - I might need to upgrade firmware at some point though it has not been necessary yet. My Di2 just works.

There is also VirtualBox (which is free). I used to use it on my Mac to update the firmware of my drone (before they released a Mac updater), so don't see any reason why it won't work for Di2 too.

gweeds

dennisn wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

dennisn wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

Arguing the toss with Dennisn is like a blunt needle.

Pointless.

Isn't a forum all about argument and debate?

Yes, but your sweeping statement that all those with Di2 have it only because they want to 'pose' is a bit, well, silly, frankly.

I got it (and I was quite late to the party) because I perceived a net benefit in better shifting and less maintenance with more functionality. And I like gadgets.

Not to pose. I think it looks quite ugly in fact, worse than 9000.

And I'm no Di2 fanboy - it's good, but it's not perfect; all these firmware updates are a pain in the ass (not the donkey kind), and support is poor.

I'm simply arguing that people buy these things out of vanity(poser) and the wows they think they will get from it all. They must look like and ride the so called "Pro" stuff. You're arguing that they buy it because it's better stuff. That i don't buy. They THINK and have been told it's better and therefore they must have it or be looked down upon. Can't have that. Their whole train of thought revolves around it's new, it's expensive, therefore it's better AND cool. I will say that IMHO most of this revolves around younger riders(and some older ones) trying to impress and fit in.

See what you keep doing is confusing your opinion with fact, and that you and only you sees things as they really are. Oh, and then make a generalisation around every rider.

Try not to.