eTap : worth it or it's just a poser thing ?

itboffin

i would have thought the evolution of electronic shifting should be fully automatic based on a behavioural learning programme that sets out HR, cadence, speed, power and gradient etc and picks the optimum gear.

Like an automatic car with the option to manual shift like steptronic gearboxes

alex222

dennisn wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Gweeds wrote:

The experience of shifting. It's not hard to understand surely.

Then explain it to me please. And don't call me Surely.

LOL! Bear in mind that some here are too young to have ever seen Airplane!

Good point.

I chose the wrong week to give up sniffing glue

webboo

Shirley in this day and age you should be able to have a couple of electrodes fitted to your head synced to your electronic gears. Then all you do is think what gear you want to be in and " hey presto"

sungod

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Honestly though, the more I think about eTap the more I don't understand the single action levers. It seems like a massive flaw. One stops working and you're screwed. Want to shift up at the front and back? Nope, you have to do it sequentially (mainly for racers). forgot what ring you're on at the front and you could end up slamming it into a too small or too big gear. It seems designed for weekend riders to be honest.

do you realise you're saying this in public? where we can all point and laugh

dual shifting works fine, in both directions

i'm sure you are able to "forget what ring you're on" with any groupset

noodleman

sungod wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Honestly though, the more I think about eTap the more I don't understand the single action levers. It seems like a massive flaw. One stops working and you're screwed. Want to shift up at the front and back? Nope, you have to do it sequentially (mainly for racers). forgot what ring you're on at the front and you could end up slamming it into a too small or too big gear. It seems designed for weekend riders to be honest.

You couldn't possibly look down to see what ring you're in or actually have the common sense to have an inkling you're probably in the big ring if you're blasting along at 20+mph or in the small one if you're on a climb?

stueys

dennisn wrote:

Stueys wrote:

but it does improve every part of the shifting experience.

To be honest, I can't even express how stupid that sounds to me. "...the shifting experience."? WTF is "...the shifting experience."?

Sorry, I assumed that most people on here had at least a vague vocabulary. Or maybe access to google so they could get by in life.

bianchimoon

itboffin wrote:

i would have thought the evolution of electronic shifting should be fully automatic based on a behavioural learning programme that sets out HR, cadence, speed, power and gradient etc and picks the optimum gear.

Like an automatic car with the option to manual shift like steptronic gearboxes

viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12852529
Was mentioned a few years ago on here

bbrap

philthy3 wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Honestly though, the more I think about eTap the more I don't understand the single action levers. It seems like a massive flaw. One stops working and you're screwed. Want to shift up at the front and back? Nope, you have to do it sequentially (mainly for racers). forgot what ring you're on at the front and you could end up slamming it into a too small or too big gear. It seems designed for weekend riders to be honest.

How is a single action lever any more of a hazard if broken than any other lever? You break a lever with Shimano or Campagnola its kaput. The way that SRAM operates is instinctive and eTap even more so; left to change down, right to change up and both to change the front. Stuck in the big ring when a lever breaks? use the set up process to change down to the inner ring. It's no more difficult than detaching the cable on a front derailleur in the event of a lever breaking.

If I understand this correctly, on eTap you need both levers working to change up and down the cassette. If one lever breaks in a crash you will be able to move either up or down the cassette from the current position depending on which one is busted. The front will be stuck as you need both functioning to get it to move. So depending on a number of factors (hills, which gear you were in before the off, etc) it may or may not be possible to get back home without assistance.

With DI2/EPS if you break a lever you will either have a full range of the cassette (if you trash the LH shifter) or be stuck in one gear but have the option of two chainrings. Once again this may allow you to get home without further assistance particularly if the LH one is busted. But as which button does what is fully customisable that scenario may not apply to everyone depending on how they have set theirs up. Out of the two I think that eTap is more likely to require the use of a van.

Hinaultscrapcousin

sungod wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Honestly though, the more I think about eTap the more I don't understand the single action levers. It seems like a massive flaw. One stops working and you're screwed. Want to shift up at the front and back? Nope, you have to do it sequentially (mainly for racers). forgot what ring you're on at the front and you could end up slamming it into a too small or too big gear. It seems designed for weekend riders to be honest.

do you realise you're saying this in public? where we can all point and laugh

dual shifting works fine, in both directions

i'm sure you are able to "forget what ring you're on" with any groupset

You can do what you want. Firstly you can explain how you shift the FD and RD on eTap at the same time?

as for forgetting, of course you can. What you can't do on Di2/EPS is accidentally shift down or up at the front because the action required is different.

noodleman

bbrap wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Honestly though, the more I think about eTap the more I don't understand the single action levers. It seems like a massive flaw. One stops working and you're screwed. Want to shift up at the front and back? Nope, you have to do it sequentially (mainly for racers). forgot what ring you're on at the front and you could end up slamming it into a too small or too big gear. It seems designed for weekend riders to be honest.

How is a single action lever any more of a hazard if broken than any other lever? You break a lever with Shimano or Campagnola its kaput. The way that SRAM operates is instinctive and eTap even more so; left to change down, right to change up and both to change the front. Stuck in the big ring when a lever breaks? use the set up process to change down to the inner ring. It's no more difficult than detaching the cable on a front derailleur in the event of a lever breaking.

If I understand this correctly, on eTap you need both levers working to change up and down the cassette. If one lever breaks in a crash you will be able to move either up or down the cassette from the current position depending on which one is busted. The front will be stuck as you need both functioning to get it to move. So depending on a number of factors (hills, which gear you were in before the off, etc) it may or may not be possible to get back home without assistance.

With DI2/EPS if you break a lever you will either have a full range of the cassette (if you trash the LH shifter) or be stuck in one gear but have the option of two chainrings. Once again this may allow you to get home without further assistance particularly if the LH one is busted. But as which button does what is fully customisable that scenario may not apply to everyone depending on how they have set theirs up. Out of the two I think that eTap is more likely to require the use of a van.

Does it really matter? You'll still be able to ride your bike and the fact you've probably done some expensive damage to your bike and some physical damage to yourself will probably be of higher priority than the speed you can ride home at.

Hinaultscrapcousin

philthy3 wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Honestly though, the more I think about eTap the more I don't understand the single action levers. It seems like a massive flaw. One stops working and you're screwed. Want to shift up at the front and back? Nope, you have to do it sequentially (mainly for racers). forgot what ring you're on at the front and you could end up slamming it into a too small or too big gear. It seems designed for weekend riders to be honest.

How is a single action lever any more of a hazard if broken than any other lever? You break a lever with Shimano or Campagnola its kaput. The way that SRAM operates is instinctive and eTap even more so; left to change down, right to change up and both to change the front. Stuck in the big ring when a lever breaks? use the set up process to change down to the inner ring. It's no more difficult than detaching the cable on a front derailleur in the event of a lever breaking.

bbrap has explained. I'll just add that with Di2 if you break a lever you can use your phone to set the other lever to sequentially move up or down the gears, shifting front and rear when required. As far as I'm aware that's impossible with eTap, you'll either be able to move up or down the cassette and not move the front at all.

Hinaultscrapcousin

noodleman wrote:

bbrap wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Honestly though, the more I think about eTap the more I don't understand the single action levers. It seems like a massive flaw. One stops working and you're screwed. Want to shift up at the front and back? Nope, you have to do it sequentially (mainly for racers). forgot what ring you're on at the front and you could end up slamming it into a too small or too big gear. It seems designed for weekend riders to be honest.

How is a single action lever any more of a hazard if broken than any other lever? You break a lever with Shimano or Campagnola its kaput. The way that SRAM operates is instinctive and eTap even more so; left to change down, right to change up and both to change the front. Stuck in the big ring when a lever breaks? use the set up process to change down to the inner ring. It's no more difficult than detaching the cable on a front derailleur in the event of a lever breaking.

If I understand this correctly, on eTap you need both levers working to change up and down the cassette. If one lever breaks in a crash you will be able to move either up or down the cassette from the current position depending on which one is busted. The front will be stuck as you need both functioning to get it to move. So depending on a number of factors (hills, which gear you were in before the off, etc) it may or may not be possible to get back home without assistance.

With DI2/EPS if you break a lever you will either have a full range of the cassette (if you trash the LH shifter) or be stuck in one gear but have the option of two chainrings. Once again this may allow you to get home without further assistance particularly if the LH one is busted. But as which button does what is fully customisable that scenario may not apply to everyone depending on how they have set theirs up. Out of the two I think that eTap is more likely to require the use of a van.

Does it really matter? You'll still be able to ride your bike and the fact you've probably done some expensive damage to your bike and some physical damage to yourself will probably be of higher priority than the speed you can ride home at.

I think it does. One will let you ride your bike while you wait for the spare shifter, one won't. One has the capability to let you finish your ride with very little hinderance, the other will be a pain. Why limit yourself?

noodleman

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

noodleman wrote:

bbrap wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Honestly though, the more I think about eTap the more I don't understand the single action levers. It seems like a massive flaw. One stops working and you're screwed. Want to shift up at the front and back? Nope, you have to do it sequentially (mainly for racers). forgot what ring you're on at the front and you could end up slamming it into a too small or too big gear. It seems designed for weekend riders to be honest.

How is a single action lever any more of a hazard if broken than any other lever? You break a lever with Shimano or Campagnola its kaput. The way that SRAM operates is instinctive and eTap even more so; left to change down, right to change up and both to change the front. Stuck in the big ring when a lever breaks? use the set up process to change down to the inner ring. It's no more difficult than detaching the cable on a front derailleur in the event of a lever breaking.

If I understand this correctly, on eTap you need both levers working to change up and down the cassette. If one lever breaks in a crash you will be able to move either up or down the cassette from the current position depending on which one is busted. The front will be stuck as you need both functioning to get it to move. So depending on a number of factors (hills, which gear you were in before the off, etc) it may or may not be possible to get back home without assistance.

With DI2/EPS if you break a lever you will either have a full range of the cassette (if you trash the LH shifter) or be stuck in one gear but have the option of two chainrings. Once again this may allow you to get home without further assistance particularly if the LH one is busted. But as which button does what is fully customisable that scenario may not apply to everyone depending on how they have set theirs up. Out of the two I think that eTap is more likely to require the use of a van.

Does it really matter? You'll still be able to ride your bike and the fact you've probably done some expensive damage to your bike and some physical damage to yourself will probably be of higher priority than the speed you can ride home at.

I think it does. One will let you ride your bike while you wait for the spare shifter, one won't. One has the capability to let you finish your ride with very little hinderance, the other will be a pain. Why limit yourself?

You have a button on each mech with etap that when pressed moves the mechs up or down. I'd say in both circumstances it's more than "very little hinderance" but can't see how it's a worse scenario on etap.

dennisn

Stueys wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Stueys wrote:

but it does improve every part of the shifting experience.

To be honest, I can't even express how stupid that sounds to me. "...the shifting experience."? WTF is "...the shifting experience."?

Sorry, I assumed that most people on here had at least a vague vocabulary. Or maybe access to google so they could get by in life.

So, is it a tingly, feel good experience? Or more of a deeply transcendental one in which you must "become the shift lever'?

Hinaultscrapcousin

noodleman wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

noodleman wrote:

bbrap wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Honestly though, the more I think about eTap the more I don't understand the single action levers. It seems like a massive flaw. One stops working and you're screwed. Want to shift up at the front and back? Nope, you have to do it sequentially (mainly for racers). forgot what ring you're on at the front and you could end up slamming it into a too small or too big gear. It seems designed for weekend riders to be honest.

How is a single action lever any more of a hazard if broken than any other lever? You break a lever with Shimano or Campagnola its kaput. The way that SRAM operates is instinctive and eTap even more so; left to change down, right to change up and both to change the front. Stuck in the big ring when a lever breaks? use the set up process to change down to the inner ring. It's no more difficult than detaching the cable on a front derailleur in the event of a lever breaking.

If I understand this correctly, on eTap you need both levers working to change up and down the cassette. If one lever breaks in a crash you will be able to move either up or down the cassette from the current position depending on which one is busted. The front will be stuck as you need both functioning to get it to move. So depending on a number of factors (hills, which gear you were in before the off, etc) it may or may not be possible to get back home without assistance.

With DI2/EPS if you break a lever you will either have a full range of the cassette (if you trash the LH shifter) or be stuck in one gear but have the option of two chainrings. Once again this may allow you to get home without further assistance particularly if the LH one is busted. But as which button does what is fully customisable that scenario may not apply to everyone depending on how they have set theirs up. Out of the two I think that eTap is more likely to require the use of a van.

Does it really matter? You'll still be able to ride your bike and the fact you've probably done some expensive damage to your bike and some physical damage to yourself will probably be of higher priority than the speed you can ride home at.

I think it does. One will let you ride your bike while you wait for the spare shifter, one won't. One has the capability to let you finish your ride with very little hinderance, the other will be a pain. Why limit yourself?

You have a button on each mech with etap that when pressed moves the mechs up or down. I'd say in both circumstances it's more than "very little hinderance" but can't see how it's a worse scenario on etap.

So on eTap you'd have to stop every time you wanted a shift your on lever wouldn't let you do and on Di2 you could reprogram and just use the one lever for everything. You can't see how eTap is worse?

noodleman

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

noodleman wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

noodleman wrote:

bbrap wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Honestly though, the more I think about eTap the more I don't understand the single action levers. It seems like a massive flaw. One stops working and you're screwed. Want to shift up at the front and back? Nope, you have to do it sequentially (mainly for racers). forgot what ring you're on at the front and you could end up slamming it into a too small or too big gear. It seems designed for weekend riders to be honest.

How is a single action lever any more of a hazard if broken than any other lever? You break a lever with Shimano or Campagnola its kaput. The way that SRAM operates is instinctive and eTap even more so; left to change down, right to change up and both to change the front. Stuck in the big ring when a lever breaks? use the set up process to change down to the inner ring. It's no more difficult than detaching the cable on a front derailleur in the event of a lever breaking.

If I understand this correctly, on eTap you need both levers working to change up and down the cassette. If one lever breaks in a crash you will be able to move either up or down the cassette from the current position depending on which one is busted. The front will be stuck as you need both functioning to get it to move. So depending on a number of factors (hills, which gear you were in before the off, etc) it may or may not be possible to get back home without assistance.

With DI2/EPS if you break a lever you will either have a full range of the cassette (if you trash the LH shifter) or be stuck in one gear but have the option of two chainrings. Once again this may allow you to get home without further assistance particularly if the LH one is busted. But as which button does what is fully customisable that scenario may not apply to everyone depending on how they have set theirs up. Out of the two I think that eTap is more likely to require the use of a van.

Does it really matter? You'll still be able to ride your bike and the fact you've probably done some expensive damage to your bike and some physical damage to yourself will probably be of higher priority than the speed you can ride home at.

I think it does. One will let you ride your bike while you wait for the spare shifter, one won't. One has the capability to let you finish your ride with very little hinderance, the other will be a pain. Why limit yourself?

You have a button on each mech with etap that when pressed moves the mechs up or down. I'd say in both circumstances it's more than "very little hinderance" but can't see how it's a worse scenario on etap.

So on eTap you'd have to stop every time you wanted a shift your on lever wouldn't let you do and on Di2 you could reprogram and just use the one lever for everything. You can't see how eTap is worse?

I judge the performance on how the system works as it's intended. On that count I prefer etap to di2. I don't like the shift setup of di2. I don't like the lack of lever feedback and to be perfectly honest I don't and never will consider buying something on the merit of how it performs when you've crashed it.

Hinaultscrapcousin

noodleman wrote:

I judge the performance on how the system works as it's intended. On that count I prefer etap to di2. I don't like the shift setup of di2. I don't like the lack of lever feedback and to be perfectly honest I don't and never will consider buying something on the merit of how it performs when you've crashed it.

Then why get involved in a discussion specifically about the pluses and minuses of each system after a crash?

No one is suggesting anyone should buy something based on how it performs when crashed. We are just discussing but which is likely to be best as this is a situation where they can either really come into their own or be a massive headache. All electronic systems shift absolutely fine when working (although I'm still waiting for sungod to explain how you can shift the FD and RD at the same time on eTap) so unless you have a preference for shifting clearly other things will impact your decision.

bernithebiker

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

I'll just add that with Di2 if you break a lever you can use your phone to set the other lever to sequentially move up or down the gears, shifting front and rear when required.

That's a nice feature, but as far as I know it's not actually available to buy yet? As you need the new Dfly unit (EWWU111) and the new battery.

noodleman

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

noodleman wrote:

I judge the performance on how the system works as it's intended. On that count I prefer etap to di2. I don't like the shift setup of di2. I don't like the lack of lever feedback and to be perfectly honest I don't and never will consider buying something on the merit of how it performs when you've crashed it.

Then why get involved in a discussion specifically about the pluses and minuses of each system after a crash?

No one is suggesting anyone should buy something based on how it performs when crashed. We are just discussing but which is likely to be best as this is a situation where they can either really come into their own or be a massive headache. All electronic systems shift absolutely fine when working (although I'm still waiting for sungod to explain how you can shift the FD and RD at the same time on eTap) so unless you have a preference for shifting clearly other things will impact your decision.

And we're still waiting to know how you can slam into the wrong front ring on etap but not on di2.

Hinaultscrapcousin

bernithebiker wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

I'll just add that with Di2 if you break a lever you can use your phone to set the other lever to sequentially move up or down the gears, shifting front and rear when required.

That's a nice feature, but as far as I know it's not actually available to buy yet? As you need the new Dfly unit (EWWU111) and the new battery.

I thought it was available in the currently available top of the range DA? As I said before, I don't ride either so I'm not sure. I'm just very interested in the tech but that does mean I may have heard about it with the newest group and it's not yet out.

Either way, it'll be out soon I would guess if not yet and I do think it's a very good feature. I would argue anyone who isn't racing should probably set both brifters to operate like that and leave it. At least have that set up as a favourite so it can be downloaded quickly.

Hinaultscrapcousin

noodleman wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

noodleman wrote:

I judge the performance on how the system works as it's intended. On that count I prefer etap to di2. I don't like the shift setup of di2. I don't like the lack of lever feedback and to be perfectly honest I don't and never will consider buying something on the merit of how it performs when you've crashed it.

Then why get involved in a discussion specifically about the pluses and minuses of each system after a crash?

No one is suggesting anyone should buy something based on how it performs when crashed. We are just discussing but which is likely to be best as this is a situation where they can either really come into their own or be a massive headache. All electronic systems shift absolutely fine when working (although I'm still waiting for sungod to explain how you can shift the FD and RD at the same time on eTap) so unless you have a preference for shifting clearly other things will impact your decision.

And we're still waiting to know how you can slam into the wrong front ring on etap but not on di2.

Put Di2 bike in the small ring. Perform the action to shift into the small ring. Result, no shift. Put eTap into the small ring, perform the action to shift into the small ring. Result, shift into the big ring.

noodleman

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

noodleman wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

noodleman wrote:

I judge the performance on how the system works as it's intended. On that count I prefer etap to di2. I don't like the shift setup of di2. I don't like the lack of lever feedback and to be perfectly honest I don't and never will consider buying something on the merit of how it performs when you've crashed it.

Then why get involved in a discussion specifically about the pluses and minuses of each system after a crash?

No one is suggesting anyone should buy something based on how it performs when crashed. We are just discussing but which is likely to be best as this is a situation where they can either really come into their own or be a massive headache. All electronic systems shift absolutely fine when working (although I'm still waiting for sungod to explain how you can shift the FD and RD at the same time on eTap) so unless you have a preference for shifting clearly other things will impact your decision.

And we're still waiting to know how you can slam into the wrong front ring on etap but not on di2.

Put Di2 bike in the small ring. Perform the action to shift into the small ring. Result, no shift. Put eTap into the small ring, perform the action to shift into the small ring. Result, shift into the big ring.

And you really don't know when you're in the big or small ring?? Also I like to get involved in this discussion because I run both systems and have a clear favourite and an interest in other valid opinions. You've been trumpeting a feature that isn't even available whilst lauding one product and dismissing another when you don't have any experience of either.

Hinaultscrapcousin

noodleman wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

noodleman wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

noodleman wrote:

I judge the performance on how the system works as it's intended. On that count I prefer etap to di2. I don't like the shift setup of di2. I don't like the lack of lever feedback and to be perfectly honest I don't and never will consider buying something on the merit of how it performs when you've crashed it.

Then why get involved in a discussion specifically about the pluses and minuses of each system after a crash?

No one is suggesting anyone should buy something based on how it performs when crashed. We are just discussing but which is likely to be best as this is a situation where they can either really come into their own or be a massive headache. All electronic systems shift absolutely fine when working (although I'm still waiting for sungod to explain how you can shift the FD and RD at the same time on eTap) so unless you have a preference for shifting clearly other things will impact your decision.

And we're still waiting to know how you can slam into the wrong front ring on etap but not on di2.

Put Di2 bike in the small ring. Perform the action to shift into the small ring. Result, no shift. Put eTap into the small ring, perform the action to shift into the small ring. Result, shift into the big ring.

And you really don't know when you're in the big or small ring?? Also I like to get involved in this discussion because I run both systems and have a clear favourite and an interest in other valid opinions. You've been trumpeting a feature that isn't even available whilst lauding one product and dismissing another when you don't have any experience of either.

On certain terrain when you're on the rivet in a pace line yes, it can be very easy to forget which ring you're in. I certainly wouldn't want to have to look down at my cranks in that situation. The benefit of cables is you can easily tell on feel. Your turn? How do you shift both dérailleurs?

Dismissing? No, I've pointed out several problems. Feel free to disagree but I don't think you can. Whether those flaws are enough to put someone off over the hassle of cables in Di2 is up to them. As for an unavailable feature I'm still unsure about that but a small the OP was about buying a new groupset it seems like discussing the features Di2 will soon have is valid.

I think electronic shifting is the future and hopefully wireless, but Srams implementation has sacrificed too much in this instance for what seems like an effort to be different.

Hinaultscrapcousin

As for experience of either I didn't say that. I said I don't ride either, that doesn't mean I haven't.

noodleman

When I'm on the rivet in a pace paceline I'm certainly never in the small ring. You can't shift both derailleurs simultaneously but you can hold both shifters to change the front ring then release one shifter whilst holding the other to continue shifting the rear cassette in the desired direction. Maybe not as instant as di2 but certainly not something that bothers me personally.
You may see the issues you've discussed as problems but there's certainly more problems from my point of view with di2. Lack of feel on the shift buttons, buttons being close together and shifting the wrong way being a common annoyance (for me). Constant problems with damp affecting my internal battery, second junction box being a major hassle to access when wiring problems arise (having this issue now) expensive batteries compared to etap. Size of batteries, particularly external ones being difficult to carry a spare. Battery dies and you're screwed (not a ride ending problem with etap). Extra wires and junction boxes look messy compared to etap's clean look. Di2 does shift slightly quicker at the rear but this so far is the only positive I've found in the system compared to sram. I ride both systems and these are only my personal findings and preferences but I'd happily go back to mechanical from di2 but definitely wouldn't want to go back to mechanical from etap.

meanredspider

The external battery for Di2 is hardly too big to carry should you need one - it's the size of a matchbox - and £35-45 is hardly a deal-breaker compared to the cost of either system.

I'm not sure what you mean by "shifting the wrong way" but you can customise the buttons to do what you want.

If damp affects your battery, wrap it in cling film (can't imagine why it should be affected).

Where Di2 currently beats eTap all hands down is the ability to customise, connect and adapt the system - it's way ahead in that aspect.

noodleman

Shifting the wrong way generally happens in thick gloves because of the proximity of the buttons to each other. I'm not sure why damp is an issue either but the battery in my seatpost gets soaking wet and seems to short out because of it. Wrapping it on cling film is no help either, it still happens. Maybe the customisation is good for some folk but I find the etap way of shifting is my favourite out of the box.
Internal batteries are £125.
As I've said these are just the problems I've had. Some of my friends haven't had as many but so far the etap on mine and two others I've fitted have been faultless.
Hope it continues.

meanredspider

noodleman wrote:

Shifting the wrong way generally happens in thick gloves because of the proximity of the buttons to each other. I'm not sure why damp is an issue either but the battery in my seatpost gets soaking wet and seems to short out because of it. Wrapping it on cling film is no help either, it still happens. Maybe the customisation is good for some folk but I find the etap way of shifting is my favourite out of the box.
Internal batteries are £125.
As I've said these are just the problems I've had. Some of my friends haven't had as many but so far the etap on mine and two others I've fitted have been faultless.
Hope it continues.

Customise the buttons so you don't have the hamfisted troubles. Though I don't understand this at all.

How does the damp issue show up? How do you know it's dampness causing the issue? Where's the water getting in anyway?

Internal batteries are at least internal out of harm's way. You can get them for way less than £125

paul64

raisinberry777 wrote:

paul64 wrote:

buts I don't like how we've been forced from 9 to 10 to 11 speed, nor the premium pricing but you're either prepared to pay or you're not.

What are you talking about? 9/10 speed consumables are still very easy to buy, whether it be chains, cassettes, bottom brackets or chainrings in either Shimano or Campagnolo variants (or third party replacements, if preferred), not to mention the lower demand leads to lower prices.

That's not my point, if I want etap or long arm front derailleur or latest campag buttons etc. then I'm forced away from perfectly usable older groupsets, because the refinements are not compatible in the main and the companies want their revenue, it's not in their interests to stick to a configuration and refine from there. Sure the legacy groupsets can still be maintained. Anyway two of you have misunderstood, I'll get my coat,

flasher

All just a way for companies to invent new stuff for you to buy that makes what you currently use obsolete, it's how business works and not usually in the end users interest. Electronic groupsets don't make you faster, you just get through your money quicker.

From a purely aesthetic viewpoint etap looks nice, worth 2 grand no way.