Are you a believer in god?

keef66

I'm an evidence based scientific kind of individual. I don't believe in a god of any kind, but I'm happy for others to believe whatever they like as long as their beliefs / actions don't affect me.

It's the nutters we need to worry about.

rick_chasey

So, atheists, how many of you would consider yourselves an atheistic existentialist?

First.Aspect

Rick Chasey wrote:

So, atheists, how many of you would consider yourselves an atheistic existentialist?

Since Brexit and Trump provided proof of how irrational the world is, yes. *


*actually, all I know about existentialism is what I just read on Wikipedia. Ask me a question about chemistry instead.

rjsterry

Alex99 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

The thing about God(s) is that the only thing we know is what we have written about him/them - various people have come forward to proclaim they've been "told" or even "the son of" .. but this is just normal people.

There could be a God or even Gods - or there might not - chances are that relgion is wrong about much of what God is - or isn't.

So, quite simply - I do not have faith - I see no need to worship or pray to something that may or may not exist as I do not believe any religion is true.

As I see it, religion on earth is a control method - allowing the few to control the masses - not that that is always a bad thing - religion can do great things - but it can just as easily destroy - usually in the name of the same God - is that God's fault? No - it's the fault of the humans casting their interpretation of religious scripts.
Would this world be better off without religion? I doubt it - people are people - some like to help, others like to cause chaos, others prefer pain and suffering (someone elses) - and most of us are like sheep - very easy to lead.
If religion didn't exist then other groups would dominate - just look at the cycling world - competitiveness between cycling clubs & teams ...

I think the world would be better off without religion. It is generally a barrier to constructive reasoned discussion, can be a diversion from more genuinely useful ways to live a good life and certainly can be a driving force for otherwise good people to do bad things.

This criticism could apply to any strongly held system of beliefs, whether that included a divine or supernatural element or not. I can't see any proof that belief in a God or gods uniquely persuades people to do good or bad. Such a belief can motivate people, but so can others. I'd argue that the main negative motivator is power and religion or other doctrine is then used to post rationalise the lust for power.

bbrap

keef66 wrote:

I'm an evidence based scientific kind of individual. I don't believe in a god of any kind, but I'm happy for others to believe whatever they like as long as their beliefs / actions don't affect me.

It's the nutters we need to worry about.

This

rick_chasey

First Aspect wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So, atheists, how many of you would consider yourselves an atheistic existentialist?

Since Brexit and Trump provided proof of how irrational the world is, yes. *


*actually, all I know about existentialism is what I just read on Wikipedia. Ask me a question about chemistry instead.

So how do you deal with the inevitable occasional despair of the 'what the hell is the point, we're just meat being shovelled into a grave. variety?

bianchimoon

Rick Chasey wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So, atheists, how many of you would consider yourselves an atheistic existentialist?

Since Brexit and Trump provided proof of how irrational the world is, yes. *


*actually, all I know about existentialism is what I just read on Wikipedia. Ask me a question about chemistry instead.

So how do you deal with the inevitable occasional despair of the 'what the hell is the point, we're just meat being shovelled into a grave. variety?

I do things that up the pleasure chemicals in the brain, cycle, eat, drink, chat, learn, work . No point in wondering what the point is as that would be really pointless.

finchy

Rick Chasey wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So, atheists, how many of you would consider yourselves an atheistic existentialist?

Since Brexit and Trump provided proof of how irrational the world is, yes. *


*actually, all I know about existentialism is what I just read on Wikipedia. Ask me a question about chemistry instead.

So how do you deal with the inevitable occasional despair of the 'what the hell is the point, we're just meat being shovelled into a grave. variety?

Have children. That will get rid of any such questions.

tangled_metal

bianchimoon wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So, atheists, how many of you would consider yourselves an atheistic existentialist?

Since Brexit and Trump provided proof of how irrational the world is, yes. *


*actually, all I know about existentialism is what I just read on Wikipedia. Ask me a question about chemistry instead.

So how do you deal with the inevitable occasional despair of the 'what the hell is the point, we're just meat being shovelled into a grave. variety?

I do things that up the pleasure chemicals in the brain, cycle, eat, drink, chat, learn, work . No point in wondering what the point is as that would be really pointless.

Why worry about things you can't change? We'll all cease to exist. Enjoy the existence or find whatever philosophical comforter works for you! I enjoy my existence. I don't need religion or any other dummy to cope with the end of my existence. Isn't that ultimately what religion is about? A way of explaining death and the opposite, life, by defining them both in a way people can understand. In the dark ages it's heaven and hell to scare the population into compliance. Beginnings of Islam it's a patriarchal system based rules suitable for those times to control people. Isis is following a version of it now. There has been many other versions of religious control through the ages.

Of course political control has been just as bad. Economic control might be the new thing, or old thing being repeated anew.

rjsterry

Tangled Metal wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So, atheists, how many of you would consider yourselves an atheistic existentialist?

Since Brexit and Trump provided proof of how irrational the world is, yes. *


*actually, all I know about existentialism is what I just read on Wikipedia. Ask me a question about chemistry instead.

So how do you deal with the inevitable occasional despair of the 'what the hell is the point, we're just meat being shovelled into a grave. variety?

I do things that up the pleasure chemicals in the brain, cycle, eat, drink, chat, learn, work . No point in wondering what the point is as that would be really pointless.

Why worry about things you can't change? We'll all cease to exist. Enjoy the existence or find whatever philosophical comforter works for you! I enjoy my existence. I don't need religion or any...

Of course political control has been just as bad. Economic control might be the new thing, or old thing being repeated anew.

Why worry about things you can't control? Because those things can hurt you and people you care about, and you're never entirely sure whether you can control those things or not. "I just do what makes me happy" does also sound a tiny bit self-centred.

ballysmate

Why worry?
If you decide you are going to believe in a God, how do you know you are going to pick the right one, there are loads to choose from.

finchy

Ballysmate wrote:

Why worry?
If you decide you are going to believe in a God, how do you know you are going to pick the right one, there are loads to choose from.

Choose the Roman religion. Then you can worship the Roman gods alongside local equivalent gods, so you could worship literally thousands of them if you travelled widely enough and if you slaughter enough enemies, could even end up being deified yourself.

briantrumpet

finchy wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So, atheists, how many of you would consider yourselves an atheistic existentialist?

Since Brexit and Trump provided proof of how irrational the world is, yes. *


*actually, all I know about existentialism is what I just read on Wikipedia. Ask me a question about chemistry instead.

So how do you deal with the inevitable occasional despair of the 'what the hell is the point, we're just meat being shovelled into a grave. variety?

Have children. That will get rid of any such questions.

And if you whether or not you have children, fill the time between birth and death with stuff, preferably nice stuff. And be nice to other people. You might as well. It's better than the alternative.

rjsterry

Ballysmate wrote:

Why worry?
If you decide you are going to believe in a God, how do you know you are going to pick the right one, there are loads to choose from.

The same way you make any other decision. Supposing that it was possible to pick the wrong one, how would you know that you had done so? And if you did find out that you had it wrong, what would stop you from changing your mind?

tangled_metal

rjsterry wrote:

Why worry about things you can't control? Because those things can hurt you and people you care about, and you're never entirely sure whether you can control those things or not.

I was referring to your existence ending, death. Some view religion as trying to deal with the big unknowns such as death, what's before/after, meaning of life stuff, etc. I ask why worry about the death thing when it'll happen, perhaps, no matter what we do. Religion doesn't give real answers only placebo stories to calm people.

surrey_commuter

rjsterry wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Why worry?
If you decide you are going to believe in a God, how do you know you are going to pick the right one, there are loads to choose from.

The same way you make any other decision. Supposing that it was possible to pick the wrong one, how would you know that you had done so? And if you did find out that you had it wrong, what would stop you from changing your mind?

I think that the assumption is that by the time you get confirmation it will be too late. God seems quite a vengeful person - I imagine that when he draws up his sh1tlist the non-believers are seem less negatively than those who opted of a different God.

rjsterry

Surrey Commuter wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Why worry?
If you decide you are going to believe in a God, how do you know you are going to pick the right one, there are loads to choose from.

The same way you make any other decision. Supposing that it was possible to pick the wrong one, how would you know that you had done so? And if you did find out that you had it wrong, what would stop you from changing your mind?

I think that the assumption is that by the time you get confirmation it will be too late. God seems quite a vengeful person - I imagine that when he draws up his sh1tlist the non-believers are seem less negatively than those who opted of a different God.

Too late? If you accept the premise of an afterlife, when are you going to run out of time?

rick_chasey

briantrumpet wrote:

finchy wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So, atheists, how many of you would consider yourselves an atheistic existentialist?

Since Brexit and Trump provided proof of how irrational the world is, yes. *


*actually, all I know about existentialism is what I just read on Wikipedia. Ask me a question about chemistry instead.

So how do you deal with the inevitable occasional despair of the 'what the hell is the point, we're just meat being shovelled into a grave. variety?

Have children. That will get rid of any such questions.

And if you whether or not you have children, fill the time between birth and death with stuff, preferably nice stuff. And be nice to other people. You might as well. It's better than the alternative.

This all just sounds like different ways of living inauthentically/in bad faith :P

surrey_commuter

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Why worry?
If you decide you are going to believe in a God, how do you know you are going to pick the right one, there are loads to choose from.

The same way you make any other decision. Supposing that it was possible to pick the wrong one, how would you know that you had done so? And if you did find out that you had it wrong, what would stop you from changing your mind?

I think that the assumption is that by the time you get confirmation it will be too late. God seems quite a vengeful person - I imagine that when he draws up his sh1tlist the non-believers are seem less negatively than those who opted of a different God.

Too late? If you accept the premise of an afterlife, when are you going to run out of time?

when you are stood at the Gates of Hell damned for all eternity because you chose the wrong God.

Alex99

Rick Chasey wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So, atheists, how many of you would consider yourselves an atheistic existentialist?

Since Brexit and Trump provided proof of how irrational the world is, yes. *


*actually, all I know about existentialism is what I just read on Wikipedia. Ask me a question about chemistry instead.

So how do you deal with the inevitable occasional despair of the 'what the hell is the point, we're just meat being shovelled into a grave. variety?

I don't have despair over "what is the point" type of questions. The universe doesn't owe me a purpose. I've been put in a position where I'm 'playing the game' and I can give my own meaning and value to what I do with that. I suppose that means I'm not a moral nihilist.

I understand that many people would like it to be true that we live on when our bodies die. It would be nice. However, most likely, I am just this greasy bag of water and mineral.

Alex99

Rick Chasey wrote:

So, atheists, how many of you would consider yourselves an atheistic existentialist?

Probably, yes. I think there is probably not 'something else beyond'. I suspect that such beliefs are mainly driven by a desire for there to be 'something else beyond'.

Our morality should be based only on this life. We just have to think about it properly instead of following made up nonsense.

rick_chasey

Alex99 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So, atheists, how many of you would consider yourselves an atheistic existentialist?

Since Brexit and Trump provided proof of how irrational the world is, yes. *


*actually, all I know about existentialism is what I just read on Wikipedia. Ask me a question about chemistry instead.

So how do you deal with the inevitable occasional despair of the 'what the hell is the point, we're just meat being shovelled into a grave. variety?

I don't have despair over "what is the point" type of questions. The universe doesn't owe me a purpose. I've been put in a position where I'm 'playing the game' and I can give my own meaning and value to what I do with that. I suppose that means I'm not a moral nihilist.
.

Sounds like living in bad faith no?

Alex99

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So, atheists, how many of you would consider yourselves an atheistic existentialist?

Since Brexit and Trump provided proof of how irrational the world is, yes. *


*actually, all I know about existentialism is what I just read on Wikipedia. Ask me a question about chemistry instead.

So how do you deal with the inevitable occasional despair of the 'what the hell is the point, we're just meat being shovelled into a grave. variety?

I don't have despair over "what is the point" type of questions. The universe doesn't owe me a purpose. I've been put in a position where I'm 'playing the game' and I can give my own meaning and value to what I do with that. I suppose that means I'm not a moral nihilist.
.

Sounds like living in bad faith no?

Not sure I follow

rick_chasey

So bad faith is the other extreme of existentialism.

So you either ignore/deceive yourself your own pointlessness (bad faith), or you revel and wrestle in the pointlessness (existentialism).

In reality most sit somewhere on the spectrum - constantly having a crisis about the point of it all and hating on anyone who can't live as existentially authentic as you isn't sustainable, but then constantly deceiving yourself about the realities and the freedoms you really enjoy as a human isn't all that great either.

rick_chasey

I just find the athiest thoughts on existence more interesting and more varied.

At least, as one, I have read up (fairly patchily it has to be said, and I'm probably a sucker for the amateur philosophist trap of latching on to the first thing I really read, and ignoring the rest), on it, to put my own thoughts into a more structured framework.

chris_bass

if you do believe in god, what is their point? do they wrestle in their pointlessness?

rick_chasey

Chris Bass wrote:

if you do believe in god, what is their point? do they wrestle in their pointlessness?

Well if you're christian I presume you live as God intended man to live to, to the best of your ability.

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

if you do believe in god, what is their point? do they wrestle in their pointlessness?

Well if you're christian I presume you live as God intended man to live to, to the best of your ability.

If you were trying to summarise Christianity in a single line, it would probably be the New Commandment to "love on another".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Commandment

Obviously, other religions would have a slightly different view. Regardless of your views on the existence of God, I can't see much to disagree with there.

Alex99

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So, atheists, how many of you would consider yourselves an atheistic existentialist?

Since Brexit and Trump provided proof of how irrational the world is, yes. *


*actually, all I know about existentialism is what I just read on Wikipedia. Ask me a question about chemistry instead.

So how do you deal with the inevitable occasional despair of the 'what the hell is the point, we're just meat being shovelled into a grave. variety?

I don't have despair over "what is the point" type of questions. The universe doesn't owe me a purpose. I've been put in a position where I'm 'playing the game' and I can give my own meaning and value to what I do with that. I suppose that means I'm not a moral nihilist.
.

Sounds like living in bad faith no?

I don't think so. Wouldn't I have to be adopting a false value? When I say "give my own meaning and value" I'm thinking along the lines of moral realism.

slowbike

Surrey Commuter wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Why worry?
If you decide you are going to believe in a God, how do you know you are going to pick the right one, there are loads to choose from.

The same way you make any other decision. Supposing that it was possible to pick the wrong one, how would you know that you had done so? And if you did find out that you had it wrong, what would stop you from changing your mind?

I think that the assumption is that by the time you get confirmation it will be too late. God seems quite a vengeful person - I imagine that when he draws up his sh1tlist the non-believers are seem less negatively than those who opted of a different God.

Indeed he does - in at least one branch of Christianity you must get your baby baptised as soon as possible after it's born otherwise it won't be accepted into the kingdom of heaven if it should die beforehand.

Really?
God is that spiteful that should an infant die before it's been baptised, (s)he won't accept it - despite that it is as blameless as anyone can ever be .... ? Nice God ... and we should "worship" this creature? hah ...

Or perhaps thats just the religous leaders ensuring a returning congregation ...
I'm just amazed that some people are so gullible in believing in the more extreme religions ... don't they question some of the practices?