Are you a believer in god?

Finesilver24

rjsterry wrote:

Equating male circumcision with blinding children is just silly.

No it isn't. If circumcision wasn't 'a thing' and I described it, you'd think it was a ridiculous concept.

I never said the Bible said God was white.

Slavery is covered (and encouraged) in the Old Testament.

diplodicus

No it isn't directly related to religious belief.

However "There is no mention of it in the Quran. It is praised in several hadith (sayings attributed to Muhammad) as noble but not required" (Wiki I'm afraid)

The fact that an extremely influential, to put mildly, religious figure has quotes attributed to him that it is noble is enough for some.

rjsterry

diplodicus wrote:

No it isn't directly related to religious belief.

However "There is no mention of it in the Quran. It is praised in several hadith (sayings attributed to Muhammad) as noble but not required" (Wiki I'm afraid)

The fact that an extremely influential, to put mildly, religious figure has quotes attributed to him that it is noble is enough for some.

If you read a bit further down the Wiki page, there is a reference to an Islamic religious authority - I forget the exact title - stating that it is definitely not a religious requirement.

I'm not suggesting people don't commit awful acts and then justify it by reference to some part of a faith - it's usually a very selective part - but I don't see how this is any different from murdering people in the name of Marxism or that Darwin justifies forced sterilisation.

part time waster

When I hear people say god has spoken to them , can we ask them to do an impression of what he / she sounds like ?
And isn't god just dog spelt backwards ?
Did someone just make a boob one day and too many people went along with it ?

diplodicus

rjsterry wrote:

diplodicus wrote:

No it isn't directly related to religious belief.

However "There is no mention of it in the Quran. It is praised in several hadith (sayings attributed to Muhammad) as noble but not required" (Wiki I'm afraid)

The fact that an extremely influential, to put mildly, religious figure has quotes attributed to him that it is noble is enough for some.

If you read a bit further down the Wiki page, there is a reference to an Islamic religious authority - I forget the exact title - stating that it is definitely not a religious requirement.

I'm not suggesting people don't commit awful acts and then justify it by reference to some part of a faith - it's usually a very selective part - but I don't see how this is any different from murdering people in the name of Marxism or that Darwin justifies forced sterilisation.

I agree it's not required

But if Muhammad says it's noble, some will do it

First.Aspect

Manchester City have just signed Jesus.

Is this proof of anything?

fat daddy

First Aspect wrote:

Is this proof of anything?

Proof ? ..... we don't need proof, just need faith

Mikey23

@ballysmate... not so bad bud, week 5 post total hip replacement after hitting black ice and not bouncing very well.

Saw a god thread and just had to get my four pennerth in as per usual. The usual responses ranging from morbidly fascinating through deeply disturbing to downright hilarious. Off to bed now as central methodists in the morning. Night y'all

ballysmate

Mikey23 wrote:

@ballysmate... not so bad bud, week 5 post total hip replacement after hitting black ice and not bouncing very well.

Saw a god thread and just had to get my four pennerth in as per usual. The usual responses ranging from morbidly fascinating through deeply disturbing to downright hilarious. Off to bed now as central methodists in the morning. Night y'all

Don't forget to say your prayers before bedtime.

hamish_mctavish

Finesilver24 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Equating male circumcision with blinding children is just silly.

No it isn't. If circumcision wasn't 'a thing' and I described it, you'd think it was a ridiculous concept.

It is a bit silly.
Plenty of people have been circumscised as children for non-religious reasons, not really the case with the whole blinding with barbeque skewers thing.

Ben6899

Rick Chasey wrote:

Sure, but his belief isn't cynical.

He references Jesus, Christ, and Prayers a lot more than other Presidents have.

He sang amazing grace (an hymn don't forget), and spoke of the killer who "didn't know he was being used by God".

he wrote a prayer on the Western Wall in Jerusaleum which he didn't expect to have published.

Lord — Protect my family and me. Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will."

Religion isn't all bad.

On a micro level it can be very enlightening, supportive and can lead people to live a happier, more socially valuable life.


It's easy to be snobby about religion and say it causes all sorts of grief (but what doesn't?) but it also gives a lot of support and happiness.

I see what you're saying, Rick, but Mr Obama doesn't need "God" to help him do any of those things he asks for. He must do those things himself.

We are each our own "God" and how we feel about that "God" depends very much how we see the world. Are we optimistic? Pessimistic? Cynical? Open-minded? Etc...

Life experiences colour all of this and, for me, someone 'finding "God"' is simply when they figure out how to deal with things in a different way. When their inner "God" views things differently.


If someone says "God" told them to kill infidels or hate gay people, then they're a lying ar$ehole. "God" never told anyone anything.

Finesilver24

Ben6899 wrote:

"God" never told anyone anything.

Obvs, actually doesn't exist. Unless he told you to type that.

jimmythecuckoo

I was comfortable being neither here nor there. The Stephen Fry film a week or so back made me challenge my thinking a little bit more.

rick_chasey

Ben6899 wrote:

I see what you're saying, Rick, but Mr Obama doesn't need "God" to help him do any of those things he asks for. He must do those things himself.

We are each our own "God" and how we feel about that "God" depends very much how we see the world. Are we optimistic? Pessimistic? Cynical? Open-minded? Etc...

Life experiences colour all of this and, for me, someone 'finding "God"' is simply when they figure out how to deal with things in a different way. When their inner "God" views things differently.


If someone says "God" told them to kill infidels or hate gay people, then they're a lying ar$ehole. "God" never told anyone anything.

For me it’s broadly irrelevant.

People have their own mental crutches and beliefs to exist.

If they truly believes God exists, then for all intent and purpose, God exists in their mind. I’m quite happy to respect that, as long as they are happy to respect I don’t believe if any of it.

I will believe that there are people who feel so strongly about it that it’s as real as air them.

Finesilver24

Rick Chasey wrote:

If they truly believes God exists, then for all intent and purpose, God exists in their mind. I’m quite happy to respect that, as long as they are happy to respect I don’t believe if any of it.

I'd be happy if religion hadn't permeated through society and the legal system like God's existence was a fact. A lot of what we do, and are allowed to do, is driven but a misguided belief that we should try to please God. And the people that told us what God wanted were the religious leaders, and 'normal' people were too poorly educated to understand that they were being conned.

"Oi, woman, get out of that pulpit. God* wouldn't like it and you'll burn in hell*".

*entirely fictitious and imaginary concepts, but useful to subjugate half of the population.

city_boy

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

I was comfortable being neither here nor there. The Stephen Fry film a week or so back made me challenge my thinking a little bit more.

Just in case you need a little more persuasion...

https://youtu.be/vSdGr4K4qLg

rick_chasey

Finesilver24 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

If they truly believes God exists, then for all intent and purpose, God exists in their mind. I’m quite happy to respect that, as long as they are happy to respect I don’t believe if any of it.

I'd be happy if religion hadn't permeated through society and the legal system like God's existence was a fact. A lot of what we do, and are allowed to do, is driven but a misguided belief that we should try to please God. And the people that told us what God wanted were the religious leaders, and 'normal' people were too poorly educated to understand that they were being conned.

"Oi, woman, get out of that pulpit. God* wouldn't like it and you'll burn in hell*".

*entirely fictitious and imaginary concepts, but useful to subjugate half of the population.

I don't interpret what the Church has done in that way.

I tend to see the Church as a binding agent in society for a long long time. It handled local power.

Without the omnipresence of the state, which required modern technology and population density to exist, there just wasn't the resource or the appetite to police people like we do now.

Instead, religion has a role in giving people reason to behave in a socially responsible manner for the fear of betraying another omnipresent force - god (or gods). Don't murder your neighbour or you'll end up in hell, or be reincarnated as something awful - whatever.

The church has been so fundamental to shaping society, usually for the collective good (with all the associated corruption that comes with any power), that it's no surprise organised religion is so deeply ingrained in culture.

It's only relatively recently that technology and state development has reached a point that the state can take on those responsibilities.


--

Now, having said all that, I wouldn't say that it was done so cynically - I do believe those in the Church really do believe in God etc etc, but they were also power brokers and they took the behaviour of the individual to helping the collective mankind as a serious task that God had set them.

Most people on this forum believe in the power of the state, but that wasn't always the case either, and there are more than enough example to suggest that the state isn't all that great anyway.