Poo tin... Put@in...
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So what's the story here?:
No claim of responsibility for suspected Abramovich poisoning
Frank Gardner
BBC Security Correspondent
Former Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich and two Ukrainian peace negotiators are said to have suffered symptoms of poisoning, following a meeting in Kyiv.
It's very mysterious. On the evening of 3 March, they met in Kyiv, right in the heart of Ukrainian territory.
Later that evening - three of them, according to the investigative website Bellingcat, suffered symptoms of nerve agent poising.
They had inflamed skin, irritated eyes and severe pain behind the eyes - symptoms which lasted all night.
None of them had eaten anything more, according to Bellingcat, than chocolate and water.
Chemical weapons specialists have examined this case and concluded that they believe it was intentional.
But we have no idea who did it. There is no claim of responsibility.
Inevitably people will be wondering if this was the work of the GRU, Russia's military intelligence service, who Britain concluded did the Novichok Salisbury poisoning.
There is no word from Russia and no proof as to who was behind it.
Somebody, it seems, wanted to send a warning to those taking part in the peace talks. This was not a lethal dose, it was a warning.0 -
Dorset_Boy said:
So what's the story here?:
No claim of responsibility for suspected Abramovich poisoning
Frank Gardner
BBC Security Correspondent
Former Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich and two Ukrainian peace negotiators are said to have suffered symptoms of poisoning, following a meeting in Kyiv.
It's very mysterious. On the evening of 3 March, they met in Kyiv, right in the heart of Ukrainian territory.
Later that evening - three of them, according to the investigative website Bellingcat, suffered symptoms of nerve agent poising.
They had inflamed skin, irritated eyes and severe pain behind the eyes - symptoms which lasted all night.
None of them had eaten anything more, according to Bellingcat, than chocolate and water.
Chemical weapons specialists have examined this case and concluded that they believe it was intentional.
But we have no idea who did it. There is no claim of responsibility.
Inevitably people will be wondering if this was the work of the GRU, Russia's military intelligence service, who Britain concluded did the Novichok Salisbury poisoning.
There is no word from Russia and no proof as to who was behind it.
Somebody, it seems, wanted to send a warning to those taking part in the peace talks. This was not a lethal dose, it was a warning.
Strange, I'd have thought that the Ruskies would have been open about this, as they have been with their other poisonings and balcony 'accidents'.0 -
Suggestion seems to be that Abramovich and another billionaire have held these talks off their own back and that the GRU have been instructed to sabotage the talks but only with a strong warning rather than murder.0
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Pretty terrifying. Will abramovic have Chelsea unsanctioned?0
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Nah, he'd need to visit Salisbury first.shirley_basso said:Pretty terrifying. Will abramovic have Chelsea unsanctioned?
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The story about Abramovich and others seemingly being poisoned is quite worrying. I also hadn't realised he'd been involved in peace negotiations0
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Have you read anything about these talks, because it doesn't come across like you have.rick_chasey said:
Nothing to do with Putin is he oh no.Pross said:The story about Abramovich and others seemingly being poisoned is quite worrying. I also hadn't realised he'd been involved in peace negotiations
He’s just your regular aluminium magnate billionaire 🙄🙄
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If I turned up to conduct peace negotiations I’d be told to p!ss off.Dorset_Boy said:
Have you read anything about these talks, because it doesn't come across like you have.rick_chasey said:
Nothing to do with Putin is he oh no.Pross said:The story about Abramovich and others seemingly being poisoned is quite worrying. I also hadn't realised he'd been involved in peace negotiations
He’s just your regular aluminium magnate billionaire 🙄🙄
There’s a reason why they will talk to Abramovic.
It’s not because he’s a businessman who loves his London football team, is it?
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I just asked for evidence from others to back up their claims Read upthread.rjsterry said:
No evidence for the thing nobody has claimed apart from you, no.Stevo_666 said:
A slight exaggeration to make the point as I'm sure you are aware. Still no evidence from Ms. Basso though...rjsterry said:
I think we all knew we were doing well on the arms supply side. Which is great. We're not so hot on the sanctioning as that is where it will hurt us, just as Germany is not so hot on stopping buying Russian gas.Stevo_666 said:Interesting comments from Zelensky on the UK/Boris:
https://bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60890199
Quote:
"In an interview with the Economist, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has given his view on which Western European countries are helping out or not, in his country's fight against Russia:
He strongly criticises France's President Emmanuel Macron for failing to provide military support. Why? "Because they are afraid of Russia. And that’s it. And those who say it first are the first to be afraid."
He says the UK's Boris Johnson has been much keener to send weapons: "Yes. To be honest, Johnson is a leader who is helping more. The leaders of countries react according to how their constituents act. In this case, Johnson is an example.
Quote Message: Britain is definitely on our side. It is not performing a balancing act. Britain sees no alternative for the way out of the situation." from Volodymyr Zelensky
Britain is definitely on our side. It is not performing a balancing act. Britain sees no alternative for the way out of the situation."
Volodymyr Zelensky"
But of course he must be just saying it so nobody guesses that Boris is really a Russian agent
The only person who has mentioned Johnson being a Russian agent is you."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Which makes poisoning him a bit weird (I also think you're putting up a strawman there as well as pretty much everyone on here accepts he is linked to Putin and supported the sanctions).rick_chasey said:
Nothing to do with Putin is he oh no.Pross said:The story about Abramovich and others seemingly being poisoned is quite worrying. I also hadn't realised he'd been involved in peace negotiations
He’s just your regular aluminium magnate billionaire 🙄🙄0 -
You're a nobody so of course not.rick_chasey said:
If I turned up to conduct peace negotiations I’d be told to p!ss off.Dorset_Boy said:
Have you read anything about these talks, because it doesn't come across like you have.rick_chasey said:
Nothing to do with Putin is he oh no.Pross said:The story about Abramovich and others seemingly being poisoned is quite worrying. I also hadn't realised he'd been involved in peace negotiations
He’s just your regular aluminium magnate billionaire 🙄🙄
There’s a reason why they will talk to Abramovic.
It’s not because he’s a businessman who loves his London football team, is it?
But if you were a billionaire affected by the sanctions and considered someone who just might be able to effect regime change, then just maybe the Ukrainians would speak to you.
But you clearly know more than Frank Gardner.0 -
Might very well be fair that I’m putting up a straw man.Pross said:
Which makes poisoning him a bit weird (I also think you're putting up a strawman there as well as pretty much everyone on here accepts he is linked to Putin and supported the sanctions).rick_chasey said:
Nothing to do with Putin is he oh no.Pross said:The story about Abramovich and others seemingly being poisoned is quite worrying. I also hadn't realised he'd been involved in peace negotiations
He’s just your regular aluminium magnate billionaire 🙄🙄
It’s not that weird that hardliners would want to stop peace negotiations and Russia has a storied history of poisonings.0 -
Exactly. If he is well connected with Putin (as seems to be the case), why would the Russians poison him?Pross said:
Which makes poisoning him a bit weird (I also think you're putting up a strawman there as well as pretty much everyone on here accepts he is linked to Putin and supported the sanctions).rick_chasey said:
Nothing to do with Putin is he oh no.Pross said:The story about Abramovich and others seemingly being poisoned is quite worrying. I also hadn't realised he'd been involved in peace negotiations
He’s just your regular aluminium magnate billionaire 🙄🙄"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Because the hardliners don’t want peace?Stevo_666 said:
Exactly. If he is well connected with Putin (as seems to be the case), why would the Russians poison him?Pross said:
Which makes poisoning him a bit weird (I also think you're putting up a strawman there as well as pretty much everyone on here accepts he is linked to Putin and supported the sanctions).rick_chasey said:
Nothing to do with Putin is he oh no.Pross said:The story about Abramovich and others seemingly being poisoned is quite worrying. I also hadn't realised he'd been involved in peace negotiations
He’s just your regular aluminium magnate billionaire 🙄🙄
Or even because Putin does not want anyone negotiating on his behalf?
There is a reason why Abramovic is said to have bought a high profile British asset for “protection”
It’s quite normal for kleptocrats to turn on each other and murder etc.0 -
If he is that close to Putin, would he have done this without a nod from the boss?rick_chasey said:
Because the hardliners don’t want peace?Stevo_666 said:
Exactly. If he is well connected with Putin (as seems to be the case), why would the Russians poison him?Pross said:
Which makes poisoning him a bit weird (I also think you're putting up a strawman there as well as pretty much everyone on here accepts he is linked to Putin and supported the sanctions).rick_chasey said:
Nothing to do with Putin is he oh no.Pross said:The story about Abramovich and others seemingly being poisoned is quite worrying. I also hadn't realised he'd been involved in peace negotiations
He’s just your regular aluminium magnate billionaire 🙄🙄
Or even because Putin does not want anyone negotiating on his behalf?
There is a reason why Abramovic is said to have bought a high profile British asset for “protection”
It’s quite normal for kleptocrats to turn on each other and murder etc."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
How do you know what the boss wants when he is holed up in the Kremlin with only a handful of people allowed within a hundred yards? This also assumes well coordinated security services and the last month would suggest that is far from the case.Stevo_666 said:
If he is that close to Putin, would he have done this without a nod from the boss?rick_chasey said:
Because the hardliners don’t want peace?Stevo_666 said:
Exactly. If he is well connected with Putin (as seems to be the case), why would the Russians poison him?Pross said:
Which makes poisoning him a bit weird (I also think you're putting up a strawman there as well as pretty much everyone on here accepts he is linked to Putin and supported the sanctions).rick_chasey said:
Nothing to do with Putin is he oh no.Pross said:The story about Abramovich and others seemingly being poisoned is quite worrying. I also hadn't realised he'd been involved in peace negotiations
He’s just your regular aluminium magnate billionaire 🙄🙄
Or even because Putin does not want anyone negotiating on his behalf?
There is a reason why Abramovic is said to have bought a high profile British asset for “protection”
It’s quite normal for kleptocrats to turn on each other and murder etc.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
These guys change alliances all the time.Stevo_666 said:
If he is that close to Putin, would he have done this without a nod from the boss?rick_chasey said:
Because the hardliners don’t want peace?Stevo_666 said:
Exactly. If he is well connected with Putin (as seems to be the case), why would the Russians poison him?Pross said:
Which makes poisoning him a bit weird (I also think you're putting up a strawman there as well as pretty much everyone on here accepts he is linked to Putin and supported the sanctions).rick_chasey said:
Nothing to do with Putin is he oh no.Pross said:The story about Abramovich and others seemingly being poisoned is quite worrying. I also hadn't realised he'd been involved in peace negotiations
He’s just your regular aluminium magnate billionaire 🙄🙄
Or even because Putin does not want anyone negotiating on his behalf?
There is a reason why Abramovic is said to have bought a high profile British asset for “protection”
It’s quite normal for kleptocrats to turn on each other and murder etc.
Look at Berezovsky.0 -
Fair to say we don't know the exact motives of Putin or Abramovic. Have the Kremlim issued any press releases to give us some insight?- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Holed up in the Ural mountains - not the Kremlin - according to some reports...rjsterry said:
How do you know what the boss wants when he is holed up in the Kremlin with only a handful of people allowed within a hundred yards? This also assumes well coordinated security services and the last month would suggest that is far from the case.Stevo_666 said:
If he is that close to Putin, would he have done this without a nod from the boss?rick_chasey said:
Because the hardliners don’t want peace?Stevo_666 said:
Exactly. If he is well connected with Putin (as seems to be the case), why would the Russians poison him?Pross said:
Which makes poisoning him a bit weird (I also think you're putting up a strawman there as well as pretty much everyone on here accepts he is linked to Putin and supported the sanctions).rick_chasey said:
Nothing to do with Putin is he oh no.Pross said:The story about Abramovich and others seemingly being poisoned is quite worrying. I also hadn't realised he'd been involved in peace negotiations
He’s just your regular aluminium magnate billionaire 🙄🙄
Or even because Putin does not want anyone negotiating on his behalf?
There is a reason why Abramovic is said to have bought a high profile British asset for “protection”
It’s quite normal for kleptocrats to turn on each other and murder etc.
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Fair point. I would have thought that Abramovic would be pretty wise to the game having survived so long. Maybe his luck nearly ran out.rick_chasey said:
These guys change alliances all the time.Stevo_666 said:
If he is that close to Putin, would he have done this without a nod from the boss?rick_chasey said:
Because the hardliners don’t want peace?Stevo_666 said:
Exactly. If he is well connected with Putin (as seems to be the case), why would the Russians poison him?Pross said:
Which makes poisoning him a bit weird (I also think you're putting up a strawman there as well as pretty much everyone on here accepts he is linked to Putin and supported the sanctions).rick_chasey said:
Nothing to do with Putin is he oh no.Pross said:The story about Abramovich and others seemingly being poisoned is quite worrying. I also hadn't realised he'd been involved in peace negotiations
He’s just your regular aluminium magnate billionaire 🙄🙄
Or even because Putin does not want anyone negotiating on his behalf?
There is a reason why Abramovic is said to have bought a high profile British asset for “protection”
It’s quite normal for kleptocrats to turn on each other and murder etc.
Look at Berezovsky."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
They might have spoken on the phone for example? Who knows.rjsterry said:
How do you know what the boss wants when he is holed up in the Kremlin with only a handful of people allowed within a hundred yards? This also assumes well coordinated security services and the last month would suggest that is far from the case.Stevo_666 said:
If he is that close to Putin, would he have done this without a nod from the boss?rick_chasey said:
Because the hardliners don’t want peace?Stevo_666 said:
Exactly. If he is well connected with Putin (as seems to be the case), why would the Russians poison him?Pross said:
Which makes poisoning him a bit weird (I also think you're putting up a strawman there as well as pretty much everyone on here accepts he is linked to Putin and supported the sanctions).rick_chasey said:
Nothing to do with Putin is he oh no.Pross said:The story about Abramovich and others seemingly being poisoned is quite worrying. I also hadn't realised he'd been involved in peace negotiations
He’s just your regular aluminium magnate billionaire 🙄🙄
Or even because Putin does not want anyone negotiating on his behalf?
There is a reason why Abramovic is said to have bought a high profile British asset for “protection”
It’s quite normal for kleptocrats to turn on each other and murder etc."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Given the economic effects of this conflict, here's a hypothetical:
Western govts, get together and put a £250m bounty on Putins head plus guarantees:
A complete withdrawal from Ukraine and in return, a lifting of sanctions.
Then people on the inside might just be tempted.
Also, Putin may become totally isolated if the lifting of sanctions comes with fulfilling the bounty.
I know there's a $50m dollar bounty on his head but it's not enough.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
I meant more that the people doing the poisoning might not be acting on direct orders. There have been plenty of reports of elements of the FSB leaking information to the Ukrainians. Different factions working against one another to win favour with the boss is fairly typical of totalitarian regimes.Stevo_666 said:
They might have spoken on the phone for example? Who knows.rjsterry said:
How do you know what the boss wants when he is holed up in the Kremlin with only a handful of people allowed within a hundred yards? This also assumes well coordinated security services and the last month would suggest that is far from the case.Stevo_666 said:
If he is that close to Putin, would he have done this without a nod from the boss?rick_chasey said:
Because the hardliners don’t want peace?Stevo_666 said:
Exactly. If he is well connected with Putin (as seems to be the case), why would the Russians poison him?Pross said:
Which makes poisoning him a bit weird (I also think you're putting up a strawman there as well as pretty much everyone on here accepts he is linked to Putin and supported the sanctions).rick_chasey said:
Nothing to do with Putin is he oh no.Pross said:The story about Abramovich and others seemingly being poisoned is quite worrying. I also hadn't realised he'd been involved in peace negotiations
He’s just your regular aluminium magnate billionaire 🙄🙄
Or even because Putin does not want anyone negotiating on his behalf?
There is a reason why Abramovic is said to have bought a high profile British asset for “protection”
It’s quite normal for kleptocrats to turn on each other and murder etc.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I've changed my mind. I don't think she is the vaguely sensible one.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
rjsterry said:
I've changed my mind. I don't think she is the vaguely sensible one.
Its not an unreasonable view to think that Putin is going to be very reluctant to back down without getting the Donbas.
She's not saying she thinks Ukraine should or will give it up.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Lots of rumour and speculation.rjsterry said:
I meant more that the people doing the poisoning might not be acting on direct orders. There have been plenty of reports of elements of the FSB leaking information to the Ukrainians. Different factions working against one another to win favour with the boss is fairly typical of totalitarian regimes.Stevo_666 said:
They might have spoken on the phone for example? Who knows.rjsterry said:
How do you know what the boss wants when he is holed up in the Kremlin with only a handful of people allowed within a hundred yards? This also assumes well coordinated security services and the last month would suggest that is far from the case.Stevo_666 said:
If he is that close to Putin, would he have done this without a nod from the boss?rick_chasey said:
Because the hardliners don’t want peace?Stevo_666 said:
Exactly. If he is well connected with Putin (as seems to be the case), why would the Russians poison him?Pross said:
Which makes poisoning him a bit weird (I also think you're putting up a strawman there as well as pretty much everyone on here accepts he is linked to Putin and supported the sanctions).rick_chasey said:
Nothing to do with Putin is he oh no.Pross said:The story about Abramovich and others seemingly being poisoned is quite worrying. I also hadn't realised he'd been involved in peace negotiations
He’s just your regular aluminium magnate billionaire 🙄🙄
Or even because Putin does not want anyone negotiating on his behalf?
There is a reason why Abramovic is said to have bought a high profile British asset for “protection”
It’s quite normal for kleptocrats to turn on each other and murder etc.
I read the flip side. Abramovic was operating on his own for his own interests and was given a warning by FSB. No intent to kill. This time.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Here’s an image of some of the ‘thousands of tanks’ Russia has in reserve. They’re in a terrible state. Cannibalised for parts, or badly maintained to the point of useless. It would take the Russians a long time to bring them up to a usable condition - and then they need to train people to man them. It would take months if not years, and a huge chunk of the guys needed to do the training are now dead, wounded or captured.
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It’s almost as if fear of the Russian military was a misconception based on volume of hardware.
It’s almost as if Putin went out of his way to disprove the need to fear them.
The only fear factor they have left is the total disregard for civilian life and nukes.0 -
Keep your enemies closer.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0
