Poo tin... Put@in...

rick_chasey

Oh give me some credit, I used to recruit physical oil traders.

If you don't know your FSU oil is sour and WAF is sweet, with American oil being very light etc you won't get very far.

MattFalle

rick_chasey said:

Oh give me some credit, I used to recruit physical oil traders.

i used to recruit Apache pilots but I don't know how to fly a helicopter.

MattFalle

rick_chasey said:

Oh give me some credit, I used to recruit physical oil traders.

If you don't know your FSU oil is sour and WAF is sweet, with American oil being very light etc you won't get very far.

theres a difference between trading oil and sorting out some's pension and healthcare package.

MattFalle

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

Oh give me some credit, I used to recruit physical oil traders.

i used to recruit Apache pilots but I don't know how to fly a helicopter.

tbh, i wouldn't even know where to put the petrol in.

MattFalle

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

Oh give me some credit, I used to recruit physical oil traders.

If you don't know your FSU oil is sour and WAF is sweet, with American oil being very light etc you won't get very far.

theres a difference between trading oil and sorting out some's pension and healthcare package.

and eh? what you on about? there is no need at all to know about oil types when emailing someone with a job vacancy.

First.Aspect

I used to research cracking and reforming catalysts used in the oil industry and I have no clue how the word fungible applies.

Best guess is its being used as shorthand in a way the author thinks applies to crude oil. But its no helpful because no one thought of crude oil as fungible in the first place, so it doesn't thelp to be told that it isn't.

rjsterry

MattFalle said:

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

Oh give me some credit, I used to recruit physical oil traders.

If you don't know your FSU oil is sour and WAF is sweet, with American oil being very light etc you won't get very far.

theres a difference between trading oil and sorting out some's pension and healthcare package.

and eh? what you on about? there is no need at all to know about oil types when emailing someone with a job vacancy.

Are you arguing with yourself again? Or can you at least get all your thoughts into one post so we can skip past more easily? 😏

rjsterry

First.Aspect said:

I used to research cracking and reforming catalysts used in the oil industry and I have no clue how the word fungible applies.

Best guess is its being used as shorthand in a way the author thinks applies to crude oil. But its no helpful because no one thought of crude oil as fungible in the first place, so it doesn't thelp to be told that it isn't.

Did they not? You as a chemist obviously didn't, but I'd imagine most people's conception is that one barrel is much like another.

Jezyboy

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

I used to research cracking and reforming catalysts used in the oil industry and I have no clue how the word fungible applies.

Best guess is its being used as shorthand in a way the author thinks applies to crude oil. But its no helpful because no one thought of crude oil as fungible in the first place, so it doesn't thelp to be told that it isn't.

Did they not? You as a chemist obviously didn't, but I'd imagine most people's conception is that one barrel is much like another.

Yea, I'd say most people think of one barrel as much like another.

rick_chasey

Yeah why else were Trafi scrubbing their shipment off the west coast of Africa hmm?

Pross

Is fungible something to do with mushrooms?

pblakeney

^^^ fun guy ^^^
Slow news day?

Pross

Saw an item on the news at lunch time about Belarussian dissidents going to Ukraine to fight for them on the basis they are standing up to Russia in a way that Lukashenko should. Obviously just a small number and part of the 'western' side of the spin but it did make me wonder again how anyone can work out who is friend or foe in this war when they seem to wear very similar uniforms, don't have any obvious ethnicity distinctions and in most cases have the ability to speak Russian. At present it is probably relatively easy to keep tabs on which side is located where but when they end up in close quarters urban fighting it's going to be a challenge.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

So across the distillates the most acute oil based shortages will be in diesel and jet fuel it seems, as the Russian oil disproportionately spits out those distillates versus other oil around the world (crude is not as fungible as people think.)

Grain, mainly wheat is obviously shot to pieces and ME and NA in particular do not have infrastructure set up to take on wheat elsewhere.

I do think there is still room for wage growth before we hit wage led inflation. I think if the gov't is smart they should really tweak the biases around what gets taxed to soften the blow.

I do think it's odd the govt is so quick to freeze or cut petrol/diesel taxes but not public transport costs - you'd think that's a winner for multiple reasons.

You'll have to explain this to us as I don't get it. Crude oil is distilled into different fractions and yields the different petroleum products ranging the the heavy stuff (larger molecules) such as bitumen, fuel oil, thought to the lighter stuff (smaller molecules) - petrol, bottled gas etc.
https://bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zyvc6fr/revision/1#:~:text=Fractional%20distillation%20separates%20a%20mixture,and%20cool%20at%20the%20top.
Are you saying that Russian crude is chemically different from crude that other countries produce?

Given you know a few random oil traders, I'm sure you'll be able to give a scientific answer

rick_chasey

MattFalle said:

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

Oh give me some credit, I used to recruit physical oil traders.

If you don't know your FSU oil is sour and WAF is sweet, with American oil being very light etc you won't get very far.

theres a difference between trading oil and sorting out some's pension and healthcare package.

and eh? what you on about? there is no need at all to know about oil types when emailing someone with a job vacancy.

Well yeah, if you go after someone who only has contacts with refineries that handle FSU crude for a role trading WAF crude you'll look like an idiot.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

So across the distillates the most acute oil based shortages will be in diesel and jet fuel it seems, as the Russian oil disproportionately spits out those distillates versus other oil around the world (crude is not as fungible as people think.)

Grain, mainly wheat is obviously shot to pieces and ME and NA in particular do not have infrastructure set up to take on wheat elsewhere.

I do think there is still room for wage growth before we hit wage led inflation. I think if the gov't is smart they should really tweak the biases around what gets taxed to soften the blow.

I do think it's odd the govt is so quick to freeze or cut petrol/diesel taxes but not public transport costs - you'd think that's a winner for multiple reasons.

You'll have to explain this to us as I don't get it. Crude oil is distilled into different fractions and yields the different petroleum products ranging the the heavy stuff (larger molecules) such as bitumen, fuel oil, thought to the lighter stuff (smaller molecules) - petrol, bottled gas etc.
https://bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zyvc6fr/revision/1#:~:text=Fractional%20distillation%20separates%20a%20mixture,and%20cool%20at%20the%20top.
Are you saying that Russian crude is chemically different from crude that other countries produce?

Given you know a few random oil traders, I'm sure you'll be able to give a scientific answer

Yeah. Crude from different areas has different properties. Some have more or less sulphur (sweet vs sour), some have different proportions of different oil products etc.

Refineries can't take in crude from anywhere; they're set up to take oil from certain areas that share certain properties.

ddraver

This is fairly basic, yes...

Oil what comes out of the ground in different places is different. Gas what comes out of the ground is oil left in the oven a bit longer/hotter

Start here-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_geochemistry

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum#Chemistry

And because Bean loves a graph...

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

So across the distillates the most acute oil based shortages will be in diesel and jet fuel it seems, as the Russian oil disproportionately spits out those distillates versus other oil around the world (crude is not as fungible as people think.)

Grain, mainly wheat is obviously shot to pieces and ME and NA in particular do not have infrastructure set up to take on wheat elsewhere.

I do think there is still room for wage growth before we hit wage led inflation. I think if the gov't is smart they should really tweak the biases around what gets taxed to soften the blow.

I do think it's odd the govt is so quick to freeze or cut petrol/diesel taxes but not public transport costs - you'd think that's a winner for multiple reasons.

You'll have to explain this to us as I don't get it. Crude oil is distilled into different fractions and yields the different petroleum products ranging the the heavy stuff (larger molecules) such as bitumen, fuel oil, thought to the lighter stuff (smaller molecules) - petrol, bottled gas etc.
https://bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zyvc6fr/revision/1#:~:text=Fractional%20distillation%20separates%20a%20mixture,and%20cool%20at%20the%20top.
Are you saying that Russian crude is chemically different from crude that other countries produce?

Given you know a few random oil traders, I'm sure you'll be able to give a scientific answer

Yeah. Crude from different areas has different properties. Some have more or less sulphur (sweet vs sour), some have different proportions of different oil products etc.

Refineries can't take in crude from anywhere; they're set up to take oil from certain areas that share certain properties.

The other elements like sulphur have no bearing on how much diesel or jet fuel comes out of a given batch of crude. That will depend on the proportions of longer and shorter chain hydrocarbons. Do you have a source that states Russian crude has higher proportions of these larger hydrocarbon molecules?

Also, got any links re refineries having to be source specific when it ones to crude? In the link I posted it shows how refineries process crude - a different composition of crude batches should just yield different proportions of the different fractions.

ddraver

You are now sealioning the O&G equivalent of 1 + 1 = 2...

First.Aspect

Jezyboy said:

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

I used to research cracking and reforming catalysts used in the oil industry and I have no clue how the word fungible applies.

Best guess is its being used as shorthand in a way the author thinks applies to crude oil. But its no helpful because no one thought of crude oil as fungible in the first place, so it doesn't thelp to be told that it isn't.

Did they not? You as a chemist obviously didn't, but I'd imagine most people's conception is that one barrel is much like another.

Yea, I'd say most people think of one barrel as much like another.

Indeed. So in a one man campaign for plain English, why not just say so?

The diesel you get out of it, in whatever proportion of the whole, is fungible though.

Does that help?

No. Not in the slightest.

First.Aspect

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

So across the distillates the most acute oil based shortages will be in diesel and jet fuel it seems, as the Russian oil disproportionately spits out those distillates versus other oil around the world (crude is not as fungible as people think.)

Grain, mainly wheat is obviously shot to pieces and ME and NA in particular do not have infrastructure set up to take on wheat elsewhere.

I do think there is still room for wage growth before we hit wage led inflation. I think if the gov't is smart they should really tweak the biases around what gets taxed to soften the blow.

I do think it's odd the govt is so quick to freeze or cut petrol/diesel taxes but not public transport costs - you'd think that's a winner for multiple reasons.

You'll have to explain this to us as I don't get it. Crude oil is distilled into different fractions and yields the different petroleum products ranging the the heavy stuff (larger molecules) such as bitumen, fuel oil, thought to the lighter stuff (smaller molecules) - petrol, bottled gas etc.
https://bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zyvc6fr/revision/1#:~:text=Fractional%20distillation%20separates%20a%20mixture,and%20cool%20at%20the%20top.
Are you saying that Russian crude is chemically different from crude that other countries produce?

Given you know a few random oil traders, I'm sure you'll be able to give a scientific answer

Yeah. Crude from different areas has different properties. Some have more or less sulphur (sweet vs sour), some have different proportions of different oil products etc.

Refineries can't take in crude from anywhere; they're set up to take oil from certain areas that share certain properties.

The other elements like sulphur have no bearing on how much diesel or jet fuel comes out of a given batch of crude. That will depend on the proportions of longer and shorter chain hydrocarbons. Do you have a source that states Russian crude has higher proportions of these larger hydrocarbon molecules?

Also, got any links re refineries having to be source specific when it ones to crude? In the link I posted it shows how refineries process crude - a different composition of crude batches should just yield different proportions of the different fractions.

It is definitely very sour, I read that last week.

By very hand wavy analogy with the oil from northern Canada (more or less the same ancient forest), its going to be quite heavy.

Quite easy to fix though.

imposter2.0

I was accused of 'splitting hairs' on the definition of 'proxy' earlier in this thread.

And now we are discussing the relative benefits of the component content of crude oil, ffs...

kingstongraham

Actually relevant though. How easy is it to move the Netherlands off Russian oil and onto Iranian oil?

Stevo_666

ddraver said:

You are now sealioning the O&G equivalent of 1 + 1 = 2...

As predictable as the sunrise...get back under your bridge, I'll ask questions where I see fit

Stevo_666

imposter2.0 said:

I was accused of 'splitting hairs' on the definition of 'proxy' earlier in this thread.

And now we are discussing the relative benefits of the component content of crude oil, ffs...

I smell potential Chaseybollox so thought I would investigate. He almost never answers anyway.

thegreatdivide

Oh dear oh dear. You ran away from your ultra secret electronic warfare system that’s probably now in the back of a C-17 on its way to the laboratories of the evil NATO did you? Go and stand against that wall with your comrades little Konstantin…

https://twitter.com/uaweapons/status/1506306740421341193?s=21

Pross

thegreatdivide said:

Oh dear oh dear. You ran away from your ultra secret electronic warfare system that’s probably now in the back of a C-17 on its way to the laboratories of the evil NATO did you? Go and stand against that wall with your comrades little Konstantin…

https://twitter.com/uaweapons/status/1506306740421341193?s=21

Meh, it's probably just a pop up internet cafe so the troops can get non-geoblocked versions of their favourite adult entertainment sites.

First.Aspect

imposter2.0 said:

I was accused of 'splitting hairs' on the definition of 'proxy' earlier in this thread.

And now we are discussing the relative benefits of the component content of crude oil, ffs...

It is relevant you how soon further sanctions can be applied. That is to say, not soon.

I don't know but my guess is that the issue will not so much be the plant required to process different crudes, but the capacity in Europe to do so.

I'd try to explain it to you Imposter but I'd have to want to first.

briantrumpet

With the oil thing,

imposter2.0 said:

I was accused of 'splitting hairs' on the definition of 'proxy' earlier in this thread.

And now we are discussing the relative benefits of the component content of crude oil, ffs...

With the 'proxy' thing, I think people weren't arguing about what was going on, just what word was appropriate for it. It's a bit like saying if you make two rounds of bread and use them to make a sandwich, if you cut it into two, have you got two sandwiches, or two halves of one sandwich?: we can visualise the concept, but not everyone will agree how to label it.

With the 'oil' thing, the argument is about the thing itself, not the label.

See Feynman, 'Map of a cat'.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

So across the distillates the most acute oil based shortages will be in diesel and jet fuel it seems, as the Russian oil disproportionately spits out those distillates versus other oil around the world (crude is not as fungible as people think.)

Grain, mainly wheat is obviously shot to pieces and ME and NA in particular do not have infrastructure set up to take on wheat elsewhere.

I do think there is still room for wage growth before we hit wage led inflation. I think if the gov't is smart they should really tweak the biases around what gets taxed to soften the blow.

I do think it's odd the govt is so quick to freeze or cut petrol/diesel taxes but not public transport costs - you'd think that's a winner for multiple reasons.

You'll have to explain this to us as I don't get it. Crude oil is distilled into different fractions and yields the different petroleum products ranging the the heavy stuff (larger molecules) such as bitumen, fuel oil, thought to the lighter stuff (smaller molecules) - petrol, bottled gas etc.
https://bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zyvc6fr/revision/1#:~:text=Fractional%20distillation%20separates%20a%20mixture,and%20cool%20at%20the%20top.
Are you saying that Russian crude is chemically different from crude that other countries produce?

Given you know a few random oil traders, I'm sure you'll be able to give a scientific answer

Yeah. Crude from different areas has different properties. Some have more or less sulphur (sweet vs sour), some have different proportions of different oil products etc.

Refineries can't take in crude from anywhere; they're set up to take oil from certain areas that share certain properties.

The other elements like sulphur have no bearing on how much diesel or jet fuel comes out of a given batch of crude. That will depend on the proportions of longer and shorter chain hydrocarbons. Do you have a source that states Russian crude has higher proportions of these larger hydrocarbon molecules?

Also, got any links re refineries having to be source specific when it ones to crude? In the link I posted it shows how refineries process crude - a different composition of crude batches should just yield different proportions of the different fractions.

Volga oil is heavy Siberian light - it’s all different depending where you dig it out