How good is Chris Froome?

jerry3571

God this is like the Forum's in the 2000's and the Armstrong fanboys. I asked then why does everyone else get pulled up for doping and USPS/Disco get a 100% clean bill of health and USPS still win a lot of races. Froome's overturning of his deficit hasn't been seen since this Guy

Sky have got probably the most expensive doping programme and maybe a few big brown envelopes at his disposal. Sky has been valued at £40 billion and it's all up for sale so good PR is essential to keep it's stock price up. Latest drug mule is Tao Geoghegan Hart; God knows where he popped up from.

Its like LA never happened. At least Lance had the good manners to take a minute out of his rivals and not 3 and a half minutes.
Sky will have all their asses covered unless Froome has miscounted his puffs on his inhaler again.
I have heard of a new scientific study which has found the testing of Salbutamol in elite athletes is said to be inconsistent. I wonder how this amazing Discovery??? (Lance joke) was made and who backed these trials. :roll:

Come on Kiddies, it's like believing in the Tooth Fairy :?

rick_chasey

iainf72 wrote:

davidof wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

In fact, in many respects, both American Tour winners, LeMond ... did more than sky ever have in terms of ... advantages in kit

They are still whinging about Lemond's tri bars in France.

To be a bit Rick about it, Lemond didn't introduce them in pro cycling. That was 7-Eleven, he just copied.

Fair.

kleinstroker

Jerry, the world is full of people like you. You got your heart broken by nasty dopers back in the day, so now everybody who rises above the mediocre has to be guilty, because "this feels like it did before" bullshit.

If you don't understand how Froome could take 3 1/2 minutes out of Dumoulin and Pinot I suggest you know almost nothing at all about cycling. If your prejudice blinds you to what was one of the best days of cycling you will ever see, then that's ok, go and stew in your dark little world, but let the rest of us enjoy it for what it

EnacheV

how long till Froome's salbutamol reading is find out to be a fabrication of the new UCI team installed recently ? because that's the most likely reason for it.

andyp

jerry3571 wrote:

Froome's overturning of his deficit hasn't been seen since this Guy

You seem to have forgotten the Giro just two years ago? Was it the drugs?

I was around in the 2000s, on this forum, and there was a healthy distrust of Armstrong by many. The hysteria was really amongst those who believed in the likes of Armstrong. I find it wryly amusing that the hysteria now is on the opposite side, with those who are convinced of Froome's guilt, who are the most strident in their opinions.

iainf72

M.R.M. wrote:

Froome seems utterly calculated in everything he every says. Love him as a rider and think he is exciting and desperate to be loved and will do anything to gain the respect and affection of fans. He is cursed though to never really attain what some others greatly beneath him in ability have: the love of an adoring public.

I'm not too sure he's burdened by wanting the public to love him TBH.

Something I think is amusing is outside of the UK, he's what a lot of people would expect from a British person. Quiet, reserved, well mannered etc etc. Where as in the UK, people basically want a gobshyte.

iainf72

andyp wrote:

jerry3571 wrote:

Froome's overturning of his deficit hasn't been seen since this Guy

You seem to have forgotten the Giro just two years ago? Was it the drugs?

That was different because it was a bigger gap, obviously.

blazing_saddles

I am sure a lot of us on here can vividly recall the Landis ride and are thinking, like me, that there is very little similarity to stage 19, other than both were from long range.

Here's a reminder.



The only lead out he got from the team was on the flat. As soon as the road tilted up, he was off. He caught the large breakaway group, then blew it to bits. Finally, he towed Sinkewitz (yes him) until he capitulated.
Landis finished 6 minutes ahead of the next rider.
In terms of this stage, Froome's attack would end atop the Col de la Colombiere.

not-another-hillǃ

I think he’s the best of his generation. 4 Tours, 1 Vuelta and now 1 Giro, very good Time Triallist, great climber, amazing descender. With a very good team and set up around him to shepherd him through tough bits.
Personally, I think he looks odd on a bike, spinning away at a high cadence but that’s his style. I think Bertie looks better on a bike, but Bertie is a different generation.
Is he better than Mercx, Hinault, Indurain, Lemond etc...that’s a question like is a Mk 2 Escort better than a Mondeo....different times, different technologies etc.
For now, I think Froome is very, very good and definitely the best rider of probably 2010-2020

RichN95.

iainf72 wrote:

davidof wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

In fact, in many respects, both American Tour winners, LeMond ... did more than sky ever have in terms of ... advantages in kit

They are still whinging about Lemond's tri bars in France.

To be a bit Rick about it, Lemond didn't introduce them in pro cycling. That was 7-Eleven, he just copied.

As I'm fond of pointing out, Armstrong used aerobars before LeMond.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

davidof wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

In fact, in many respects, both American Tour winners, LeMond ... did more than sky ever have in terms of ... advantages in kit

They are still whinging about Lemond's tri bars in France.

To be a bit Rick about it, Lemond didn't introduce them in pro cycling. That was 7-Eleven, he just copied.

As I'm fond of pointing out, Armstrong used aerobars before LeMond

Yeah yeah it’s more than just the aero bars though.

RichN95.

iainf72 wrote:

M.R.M. wrote:

Froome seems utterly calculated in everything he every says. Love him as a rider and think he is exciting and desperate to be loved and will do anything to gain the respect and affection of fans. He is cursed though to never really attain what some others greatly beneath him in ability have: the love of an adoring public.

I'm not too sure he's burdened by wanting the public to love him TBH.

Something I think is amusing is outside of the UK, he's what a lot of people would expect from a British person. Quiet, reserved, well mannered etc etc. Where as in the UK, people basically want a gobshyte.

Also in these Brexit years, you'd think the public would appreciate an African immigrant who rarely sets foot in the country.

Bo Duke

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

davidof wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

In fact, in many respects, both American Tour winners, LeMond ... did more than sky ever have in terms of ... advantages in kit

They are still whinging about Lemond's tri bars in France.

To be a bit Rick about it, Lemond didn't introduce them in pro cycling. That was 7-Eleven, he just copied.

As I'm fond of pointing out, Armstrong used aerobars before LeMond

Yeah yeah it’s more than just the aero bars though.

I just to eat aero bars when I was a kid, the green mint flavoured ones... yum.

Just imagine what Lemond could have achieved if he'd gone straight for snickers bars...

ShutupJens

PBlakeney wrote:

mamil314 wrote:

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

As long as Froome (Sky) carries on winning the races that feature highly on international news programmes, then Sky will carry on throwing multi millions at the team and it will repeat itself year after year.

I find him classless, style-less impressive but completely without soul, which makes him much less interesting to youngsters following the sport.

My Grandchildren rate Wiggins and Cavendish much more highly, which says a lot to me s a follower of 70`s cycling.


Money talks

What a cynical post. FYI, introverts do not lack passion, they just express it differently. Or not bother wasting energy in communicating it in any other way than final result, that speaks (apparently, only to some) louder than charismatic monkeying around. I am impressed every time seeing him grit teeth and carry out his media duties as, of course, without fans, there hardly would be a sport.

I realise I am falling on deaf ears, people just don't like him, as clearly shown at SPOTY rankings year after year. Not surprising, to be honest, since folks can't seem to recognize the good stuff and we now have brexit and orange leader etc.

This. I am only interested in what any sportsperson does while competing.
Friday was one of the most entertaining stages, ever. Purely down to Froome. Personality outside? Why care?

Totally agree. Bikes n Guns post smacks of someone who would rather watch the one show than sit down for the highlights, Wiggins tour win was literally the most boring thing I've ever seen! Would rather see someone go out and race like he has nothing to lose like Froome. Would hate to imagine how dull the last few years would have been without him

pblakeney

Not-another-hill! wrote:

I think he’s the best of his generation. 4 Tours, 1 Vuelta and now 1 Giro, very good Time Triallist, great climber, amazing descender. With a very good team and set up around him to shepherd him through tough bits.
Personally, I think he looks odd on a bike, spinning away at a high cadence but that’s his style. I think Bertie looks better on a bike, but Bertie is a different generation.
Is he better than Mercx, Hinault, Indurain, Lemond etc...that’s a question like is a Mk 2 Escort better than a Mondeo....different times, different technologies etc.
For now, I think Froome is very, very good and definitely the best rider of probably 2010-2020

Easy one that, the Mondeo.
The Escort replacement was the Focus.

jerry3571

iainf72 wrote:

andyp wrote:

jerry3571 wrote:

Froome's overturning of his deficit hasn't been seen since this Guy

You seem to have forgotten the Giro just two years ago? Was it the drugs?

That was different because it was a bigger gap, obviously.

As you correctly say, Its the time gap. Can anyone recall on one stage, a gap like this to turn over a gc?
I simply can't think of a similar time gap and I've been watching and reading about cycling plus riding since 1987.
For a Guy who has a dope trial hanging over his head, this appears to me like a middle finger to all.
As far as 2016 Giro, are we talking about the Patron Saint of Messina? :roll:
I love cycling and see it in its light and dark shades but when the Emporer puts on his new clothes, I tend to balk at having to stare at his nasty looking crotch for hours and pretend everything is normal.
I'm sure most other Teams are wondering what type of demented formula had been administered to Froome on that ridiculous day. I'm sure they'll all be wanting some of their own.
I guess this will all come out when a disgruntled rider or team helper wants to sell a book in a decade or so.
There will also be a bunch of fanboys who's dreams will be shattered by the news that super heroes don't exist. Not for me to be there when the tears will fall. I had mine in 1998 when Neil Stephens said Why would he dope with having a Wife and Kids, of course he doped. To bring your Wife and Kids in to the Festina Affair was the bottom of the barrel.
Ten years before I found my first experience watching cycling and having Gert Jan theunisse leave the Tour through a positive test. I've since lost count on the following misdemeanors :roll:
I except cycling for all its faults but don't like to be taken the mickey out of. If Sky is going to do a stunt then make it look believable.

iainf72

jerry3571 wrote:

I except cycling for all its faults but don't like to be taken the mickey out of. If Sky is going to do a stunt then make it look believable.

Can you explain what was unbelievable?

Could you believe Froome taking 30 seconds on TD and Pinot on a climb generally, for example?

RichN95.

jerry3571 wrote:

I except cycling for all its faults but don't like to be taken the mickey out of. If Sky is going to do a stunt then make it look believable.

If Dumoulin had had Oomen instead of Reichenbach with him he may well have kept the gap to 1.30-2.00 and ended the day in pink. Would that be more believable?

jerry3571

iainf72 wrote:

jerry3571 wrote:

I except cycling for all its faults but don't like to be taken the mickey out of. If Sky is going to do a stunt then make it look believable.

Can you explain what was unbelievable?

Could you believe Froome taking 30 seconds on TD and Pinot on a climb generally, for example?

Did I imagine the 3 and half minutes?? :shock:

iainf72

jerry3571 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

jerry3571 wrote:

I except cycling for all its faults but don't like to be taken the mickey out of. If Sky is going to do a stunt then make it look believable.

Can you explain what was unbelievable?

Could you believe Froome taking 30 seconds on TD and Pinot on a climb generally, for example?

Did I imagine the 3 and half minutes?? :shock:

That wasn't my question.

Do you think Froome taking 30 seconds out of TD or Pinot on a long climb is shocking? You'd agree he's a better climber, right? And a better descender. He took half his gains downhill which leaves another 90 seconds to make up.

So when you break it down, is it that shocking?

jerry3571

Well when you got 4 or 5 riders chasing then it's crazy. There's no mention of Valley roads? If Froome doesn't need to sit behind a team of Sky riders then why does he do that for 95% of the time? Is it the 40% if energy saved?? This is why its not happened for over 40 years. Also if he's pushing on the lower slopes then the aero advantage for a group of riders is even greater. There's no way round this.

iainf72

jerry3571 wrote:

Well when you got 4 or 5 riders chasing then it's crazy. There's no mention of Valley roads? If Froome doesn't need to sit behind a team of Sky riders then why does he do that for 95% of the time? Is it the 40% if energy saved?? This is why its not happened for over 40 years. Also if he's pushing on the lower slopes then the aero advantage for a group of riders is even greater. There's no way round this.

There weren't 4 or 5 riders chasing.

There were 2, effectively. The Astana and Movistar riders didn't work.

The group were sitting up to allow Pinots team mate to get back on and work. If there was a team chasing, this wouldn't have worked. If there was a stronger helper (Oomen, as Rich suggested), it wouldn't have worked.

The original plan was to have team mates up the road to help in the valley, but when that didn't pan out they ripped the field to pieces and you ended up with man against man.

Froome's team were very important to shred the peloton.

EnacheV

Chris Froome is the best athlete, in all sports, that ever lived on planet earth. The perfect human specimen. That is the easy explanation of all his wins . I'm dead serious.

All teams in cycling have access to everything. However only 1 wins them all. The Alien.

Doping doesnt explain anyting. All have access to it. As for motors, everyone sees now that this problem does not exists at WT level. There is only 1 explanation : Froome is the best, ever.

jerry3571

If you sit behind someone doing 35mph on a descent then you're doing jack. If you're hacking on you're own you are working like nutter to keep that speed. Also, if Froome is getting away on every descent he's sprinting out of each bend. If you've ridden mountains or done crits then bends break your legs. He's out in the wind on his todd for 50 miles. No one to take the wind. Descents aren't sitting in your fanny and looking at the views.
Also power doubles from 20mph to 25 mph then at higher speeds, Froome's power must be so much more. If the pace was so easy then the Movistar kid and Lopez would have got away. They couldn't.
If it was so simple then everyone would be doing a Froome. Trouble is they get caught back.
The truth will out, hopefully.

blazing_saddles

jerry3571 wrote:

Well when you got 4 or 5 riders chasing then it's crazy. There's no mention of Valley roads? If Froome doesn't need to sit behind a team of Sky riders then why does he do that for 95% of the time? Is it the 40% if energy saved?? This is why its not happened for over 40 years. Also if he's pushing on the lower slopes then the aero advantage for a group of riders is even greater. There's no way round this.

There were 5 riders in the chase group. 2 riders sat on and never did a single turn.
A third, we found out later, had been riding in the red all week.
He also had one eye on the two who weren't riding, as they were his immediate threats on GC.
The 4th cost the group half of their time limits on the descents and was pretty ineffectual when working.
That leaves Tom Dumoulin, who on the Sunweb video Iain recently posted in the stage thread said and I quote:
"If I am a minute behind Froome over the Finestre, I am in trouble."
He wasn't, but then along came Reichenbach............................................eventually.

Oh and Contador put 2'-40" in Purito, over 50kms and two second cat climbs.

above_the_cows

RichN95 wrote:

'incredible athlete, terrible bike rider'

This is me in reverse!

Apart from when outside forces like giant geese intervene.

jerry3571

Think I'm sitting up here. I've seen this one before with Lance. You Folks carry on.. So done this before.

milemuncher1

I rode with Chris Froome a couple of years back, he was doing some wind tunnel work at Southampton Uni, and wanted to ride from Southampton to Winchester. It was about 20 miles, and he was very chatty. A nice guy as well as a great rider, that’s a rare combination.

DeadCalm

iainf72 wrote:

jerry3571 wrote:

I except cycling for all its faults but don't like to be taken the mickey out of. If Sky is going to do a stunt then make it look believable.

Can you explain what was unbelievable?

Could you believe Froome taking 30 seconds on TD and Pinot on a climb generally, for example?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/phi ... elievable/

above_the_cows

You know what, I love Cavendish, as you know, because of his temperament as much as his skill.

But and here's the 'amazing' thing, I can't say I dislike Froome for his personality of being a bit shy, guarded and sensible.

I can appreciate both him and Cav. Variety is what makes the world interesting.

I'm a Gemini though so maybe it's my split personality.