How good is Chris Froome?

RichN95.

greasedscotsman wrote:

Or maybe it's something else. Can someone point me at the chart or table to work all this out.

1957-1966 Anquetil generation
1967-1977 Merckx generation
1978-1985 Hinault generation
1986-1990 LeMond generation
1991-1996 Indurain generation
Pantani Interregnum
1998-2006 Armstrong generation (specifically Festina-Puerto)
2007-2011 Contador generation
2012-present Froome generation

greasedscotsman

Ahh, right. So you're talking eras, not generations.

Richmond Racer 2

type:epyt wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

r0bh wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Meh *shrugs*.

I see them as different eras.

And tbh, even when they crossed over, Chris pretty comprehensively beat Contador.

Why do you keep saying "Chris" instead of "Froome"? It's weird. I doubt very much that you and he are close personal friends or something

My phone auto correct doesn't like the word "Froome" for some bizarre reason. Turns it into "drown".

So RR2 is the voice of Siri ...

yesssssss

RichN95.

greasedscotsman wrote:

Ahh, right. So you're talking eras, not generations.

Same thing really

RonB

RichN95 wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

Or maybe it's something else. Can someone point me at the chart or table to work all this out.

1957-1966 Anquetil generation
1967-1977 Merckx generation
1978-1985 Hinault generation
1986-1990 LeMond generation
1991-1996 Indurain generation
Pantani Interregnum
1998-2006 Armstrong generation (specifically Festina-Puerto)
2007-2011 Contador generation
2012-present Froome generation

When the riders won (or thereabouts) ...

gsk82

Contador and Froome are the same generation, but a different era.

RichN95.

More broadly there is:

Pre-90 The Pre-EPO generation
90-98 The EPO boom generation
98-07 The Armstrong generation
08-present The Biological Passport generation

silvergrenade

hypster wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

[Of course - but my previous comment was a response to the complaint that power meters (and the evil Team Sky who rely on them so heavily to kill off all exciting attacks) detract from racing; and the idea that Froome is somehow dependent on his in order to race.
If, as you assert, all pros were so supremely able to assess their performance throughout a race then there'd be no demand or claimed need for power meters.

How do you know that Sky rely so heavily on power meters? It's pure conjecture.

1. Woet Poels said in an interview during the 2016 TdF that whenever attacks go off the front, they pick up the pace after estimating the time and then calculating the Watts required to bring that rider back....
2. Froome has written in his book how he obsesses about the need to look at all of his data while many pros in the peloton have gone onto say that they ride on feel and maybe just heart rate monitor.
3. Contador this Vuelta said that Froome was in difficulty and he started staring at his power meter and recovered a little bit to go off again at which point he had to let Froomes wheel go.

There are so many instances where the cycling world has talked about their excessive use of powermeters.

mididoctors

genuine overlap in Contador froome thing. including when Bertie was perceived as more vegetarian.

burnthesheep

silvergrenade wrote:

hypster wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

[Of course - but my previous comment was a response to the complaint that power meters (and the evil Team Sky who rely on them so heavily to kill off all exciting attacks) detract from racing; and the idea that Froome is somehow dependent on his in order to race.
If, as you assert, all pros were so supremely able to assess their performance throughout a race then there'd be no demand or claimed need for power meters.

How do you know that Sky rely so heavily on power meters? It's pure conjecture.

1. Woet Poels said in an interview during the 2016 TdF that whenever attacks go off the front, they pick up the pace after estimating the time and then calculating the Watts required to bring that rider back....
2. Froome has written in his book how he obsesses about the need to look at all of his data while many pros in the peloton have gone onto say that they ride on feel and maybe just heart rate monitor.
3. Contador this Vuelta said that Froome was in difficulty and he started staring at his power meter and recovered a little bit to go off again at which point he had to let Froomes wheel go.

There are so many instances where the cycling world has talked about their excessive use of powermeters.

I would tend to agree that the age racing with power and computers is a lot different. Not everyone, not even pros, are always 100% perfect in estimating perceived exertion. And HR can fluctuate a lot at a given power level from day to day.

These guys know their data from training and other races. Why wouldn't you use it, if allowed, to get an advantage in the race instead of relying on just "feel".

hypster

silvergrenade wrote:

hypster wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

[Of course - but my previous comment was a response to the complaint that power meters (and the evil Team Sky who rely on them so heavily to kill off all exciting attacks) detract from racing; and the idea that Froome is somehow dependent on his in order to race.
If, as you assert, all pros were so supremely able to assess their performance throughout a race then there'd be no demand or claimed need for power meters.

How do you know that Sky rely so heavily on power meters? It's pure conjecture.

1. Woet Poels said in an interview during the 2016 TdF that whenever attacks go off the front, they pick up the pace after estimating the time and then calculating the Watts required to bring that rider back....
2. Froome has written in his book how he obsesses about the need to look at all of his data while many pros in the peloton have gone onto say that they ride on feel and maybe just heart rate monitor.
3. Contador this Vuelta said that Froome was in difficulty and he started staring at his power meter and recovered a little bit to go off again at which point he had to let Froomes wheel go.

There are so many instances where the cycling world has talked about their excessive use of powermeters.

I would still maintain that the use of power meters (in actual racing) is not as pervasive as many would have you think. Answering your points one by one:-

1. I can't believe they (Sky/Froome) rely solely on the output from a Stages power meter to decide this. If that's the case they must get it as wrong often as they get it right. Witness stage 5 in the Tour de France this year to the Planche de Belles Filles. Froome admitted that they underestimated the Aru attack and lost time to him. And that was relatively early in a GT when they weren't knackered and should have been able to gauge their power output better. Then again on stage 12 to Peragudes - was he looking at his power meter there? I think he was a bit too preoccupied at the time.

The other thing is as well is how can Froome possibly know how a rival is actually feeling and how much power they can put out at any given point other than estimating it by his own experience. I just don't believe that Froome would rely solely on the numbers at any given point in a race to tell him that. He has himself on several occasions said he felt good and has just gone for it like stage 8 in the TdF in 2016 where he just attacked off the final summit to Bagneres de Luchon. I didn't seee him do a lot of looking at his power meter there.

2. Looking at power data during training or after race stages is one thing and obviously widespread amongst most pro teams these days. Using it to decide how much leeway you are going to give a GC rival in real time on a GT stage is always going to be dodgy in my opinion (see point 1). I just don't believe that gven the variable rigours of a three week GT that anyone can make that sort of calculation on the basis of a power meter. Maybe they do use it for some sort of estimation of what sort of power level they can maintain based on how they feel at a particular time but isn't that what most riders are doing naturally anyway based on experience without looking at a power meter?

3. How can Contador possibly know what was going through Froome's mind, how he was feeling or what he was doing with his power meter? Maybe Sky/Froome are using power meters as a way of psyching-out the competition?

bompington

silvergrenade wrote:

3. Contador this Vuelta said that Froome was in difficulty and he started staring at his power meter and recovered a little bit to go off again at which point he had to let Froomes wheel go.

It's got face unlock wired to the motor switch

yourpaceormine

Whilst powermeters are a tool which Sky clearly do use actively when racing, I do get the feeling that Froome staring at his stem/display is his way of hiding his face from the camera/competitors (and not giving away if he is hurting or bluffing etc).

rick_chasey

yourpaceormine wrote:

Whilst powermeters are a tool which Sky clearly do use actively when racing, I do get the feeling that Froome staring at his stem/display is his way of hiding his face from the camera/competitors (and not giving away if he is hurting or bluffing etc).

Nah it's a breathing thing https://www.53x12.com/improve-breathing---part-ii

awavey

Eeek, not what I wanted to see whilst eating my ricicles this morning :shock: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/spor ... -fbcfpk8cp

DeVlaeminck

awavey wrote:

Eeek, not what I wanted to see whilst eating my ricicles this morning :shock: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/spor ... -fbcfpk8cp

Sky wont be happy their latest marginal gain super lightweight kit has been revealed, genius from Brailsford.

ocdupalais

If Froome's body fat percentage is still hovering around 9%, it must be something we can't see in the photo that's carrying all the fat. His left ear.

rick_chasey

He definitely, err, trims.

tailwindhome

Is judging body fat from photographs really back again?

RichN95.

TailWindHome wrote:

Is judging body fat from photographs really back again?

This is why I try to stay out of photos.

rick_chasey

TailWindHome wrote:

Is judging body fat from photographs really back again?

Well I was referring to his pubes?

m.r.m.

Rick Chasey wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Is judging body fat from photographs really back again?

Well I was referring to his pubes?

Same sh!t, different day, eh?

rick_chasey

I guess keeping all hair short is a weight saving....

dish_dash

Sweet lord, that photo seems to have set Michelle Froome off on one...

Beatmaker

Has she had her Twitter account hacked? Even for her, some of those tweets are shocking.

salsiccia1

She's better off shutting that down. The desire to defend him against the abuse must be very strong but it just turns in to a shitshow. She just gets as much as a proxy.

RichN95.

Salsiccia1 wrote:

She's better off shutting that down. The desire to defend him against the abuse must be very strong but it just turns in to a shitshow. She just gets as much as a proxy.

Yeah, it just encourages them. There's no reasoning with them so why bother. Block early, block often.

feelgoodlost

RichN95 wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

She's better off shutting that down. The desire to defend him against the abuse must be very strong but it just turns in to a shitshow. She just gets as much as a proxy.

Yeah, it just encourages them. There's no reasoning with them so why bother. Block early, block often.

To be fair, she doesn't do herself any favours whatsoever by dragging Cath Wiggins back into the argument. MF comes across very badly in those tweets.

tailwindhome

RichN95 wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

She's better off shutting that down. The desire to defend him against the abuse must be very strong but it just turns in to a shitshow. She just gets as much as a proxy.

Yeah, it just encourages them. There's no reasoning with them so why bother. Block early, block often.

Didn't think Tour De Jose fitted into the troll category to be blocked.

Also Michelle blocked me, and I'm lovely, so she's obviously bonkers

dish_dash

I'd forgotten that I follow Michelle Froome on twitter until she launched her catty posts after that photo came out... she's been quiet for months.

Chris may be nice and polite, his wife isn't.