How would YOU beat Froome?

Alex99

Rick Chasey wrote:

So say you're Bauke Mollema. You've got Yates and Quintana near enough a minute back. One of them will be on the attack for the podium, at least. Valverede probably too.

You know Chris can be a bit like a dog with a ball in the final week.

Surely you lay it all on Chris and go ' you want yellow, you chase 'em?'

That's the Sky vs the peleton problem again.

rick_chasey

Alex99 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So say you're Bauke Mollema. You've got Yates and Quintana near enough a minute back. One of them will be on the attack for the podium, at least. Valverede probably too.

You know Chris can be a bit like a dog with a ball in the final week.

Surely you lay it all on Chris and go ' you want yellow, you chase 'em?'

That's the Sky vs the peloton problem again.

I don't think it is necessarily.

Alex99

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So say you're Bauke Mollema. You've got Yates and Quintana near enough a minute back. One of them will be on the attack for the podium, at least. Valverede probably too.

You know Chris can be a bit like a dog with a ball in the final week.

Surely you lay it all on Chris and go ' you want yellow, you chase 'em?'

That's the Sky vs the peloton problem again.

I don't think it is necessarily.

Doesn't it rely on Yates / Mollema allowing Quintana to attack in the hope that he returns the favour the next day? Simplistic view on the best case outcome for e.g. Mollema: 1/3rd chance of being in yellow if and when Quintana and Yates allow him to do the same thing the next day. Assumptions: 1) Any of Quintana, Mollema or Yates can gain significant time on an isolated Froome; 2) the remaining riders can stay with a chasing Froome.

yorkshireraw

People talk about isolating Froome then attacking. If Movistar (presumably) have managed to burn off the likes of Nieve, Poels, Landa & Henao, you can be pretty sure that Yates & Mollema are going to be looking lonely as well, and probably on the rivet themselves a bit.

philbar72

that train of Froomes is pretty much invincible I'd say. Its utterly dull for me but shows how committed he, and his domestiques are to achieving the yellow Jersey. he's also raced really well, taking the right amount of seconds wherever he goes.

think Quintana will win a stage and rise up to a podium position, but I think he also needs to vary his training a bit. his attacks are very trackable, and he can't currently stay away. Yates and Mollema have shown they are absolutely on top of their game, and Bardet has given it a go a couple of times.... its just that Froome is capable of more than them!

bobmcstuff

TailWindHome wrote:

Katusha have been pretty poor haven't they... Sky must be putting that extra 3 million to good use.

tailwindhome

bobmcstuff wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Katusha have been pretty poor haven't they... Sky must be putting that extra 3 million to good use.

Paying 3 guys who can churn out 400 watts a million each

mrfpb

But Movistar seem to be over performing for their budget - just 42% of Sky, less than half of Katusha.

RichN95.

mrfpb wrote:

But Movistar seem to be over performing for their budget - just 42% of Sky, less than half of Katusha.

They have the advantage of being the only top level Spanish speaking team.

dinyull

You'd have to say as well that Sky's budget is focused mainly on the Tour, whereas others spread themselves over the season.

Yes, Thomas, Stannard, and Rowe are riders capable of Classic wins, but Kwiatkowski is probably their only man they pay big money to for non Tour duties.

gsk82

Dinyull wrote:

You'd have to say as well that Sky's budget is focused mainly on the Tour, whereas others spread themselves over the season.

Yes, Thomas, Stannard, and Rowe are riders capable of Classic wins, but Kwiatkowski is probably their only man they pay big money to for non Tour duties.

so you're saying sky are only focused on the tour apart from they're also strong at everything else? they sent landa to the giro with a decent team after that strong classics campaign, which included poels winning LBL.

hypster

Katusha with a budget of 32 million Euros, only three less than Sky, doesn't seem to do them any good, what are they spending it all on? At least with Sky's budget you can see the strength in depth. All those marginal gains have got to cost something as well!

Movistar are doing relatively well on limited funds it seems as well so it's not just about pure cash.

RichN95 & bobmcstuff

+1

yorkshireraw

how accurate do we believe those figures to be (sorry can't read the source correctly on screen)?

Weren't Katusha investigated a couple of years ago for their finances, because they seemed to have a massive spend on 'travel', esp. compared to the other teams? Can't recall how that was resolved (if it was really).

You struggle to see what that team is spending it on given they have maybe 3 high profile riders (J-Rod, Kristoff, Zakarin). Is it a case of team 'officials' (Makarov cronies) being paid large amounts via the team in some sort of tax 'efficient' manner?

timoid.

RichN95 wrote:

So then the question to ask is how have Sky secured big budget long term funding from a blue multinational while other teams have to rely on billionaires, dictatorships and lotteries? And then there's the French whose cycling landscape has remained undisturbed for two decades.

I'd have thought that Murdoch ticked the Billionaire and maybe Dictator Boxes...

milton50

TailWindHome wrote:

Trek only have a budget of 12 million? Cancellara must take up a quarter of that himself.

dinyull

gsk82 wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

You'd have to say as well that Sky's budget is focused mainly on the Tour, whereas others spread themselves over the season.

Yes, Thomas, Stannard, and Rowe are riders capable of Classic wins, but Kwiatkowski is probably their only man they pay big money to for non Tour duties.

so you're saying sky are only focused on the tour apart from they're also strong at everything else? they sent landa to the giro with a decent team after that strong classics campaign, which included poels winning LBL.

Landa, Poels etc have been signed to play super domestique to Froome in July and then allowed to give it a go at the Giro and Vuelta. The lack of results in the other GT's (aside from Froome again in the Vuelta) back this up.

Rowe, Stannard and Thomas have fallen into their laps thanks to BC, they haven't had to throw the chequebook at them like a Kwia.

Take the Tour away and look at their results from the past few years and you'd struggle to justify their budget.

iainf72

Dinyull wrote:

Take the Tour away and look at their results from the past few years and you'd struggle to justify their budget.

If you take away the Tour you take away why most teams exist. So if you've got a monster budget but win the Tour, from an investment perspective you're golden.

dinyull

Absolutely correct. They know where their bread is buttered.

RichN95.

Timoid. wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

So then the question to ask is how have Sky secured big budget long term funding from a blue multinational while other teams have to rely on billionaires, dictatorships and lotteries? And then there's the French whose cycling landscape has remained undisturbed for two decades.

I'd have thought that Murdoch ticked the Billionaire and maybe Dictator Boxes...

While Murdoch is a billionaire, he doesn't pay for any of the team out of his own pocket like Rihs, Tinkov, IAM bloke, maybe the Etixx guys & Ryan

stagehopper

Dinyull wrote:

Take the Tour away and look at their results from the past few years and you'd struggle to justify their budget.

Uran was also second in the giro.

tootsie323

How would I beat Froome? Install Pokémon Go on his PDA.

inseine

TailWindHome wrote:

I'd take most of these figures with a pinch of salt. SKY puplish there finances and it was £24.5m last year. Vauters said Cannondale only had $16m, but that's still a lot more than 10m euros.

ugo.santalucia

With 35M Euros you can buy team Sky or Leicester's Kante'... :-)

gsk82

Dinyull wrote:

gsk82 wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

You'd have to say as well that Sky's budget is focused mainly on the Tour, whereas others spread themselves over the season.

Yes, Thomas, Stannard, and Rowe are riders capable of Classic wins, but Kwiatkowski is probably their only man they pay big money to for non Tour duties.

so you're saying sky are only focused on the tour apart from they're also strong at everything else? they sent landa to the giro with a decent team after that strong classics campaign, which included poels winning LBL.

Landa, Poels etc have been signed to play super domestique to Froome in July and then allowed to give it a go at the Giro and Vuelta. The lack of results in the other GT's (aside from Froome again in the Vuelta) back this up.

Rowe, Stannard and Thomas have fallen into their laps thanks to BC, they haven't had to throw the chequebook at them like a Kwia.

Take the Tour away and look at their results from the past few years and you'd struggle to justify their budget.

They've had multiple podiums in the vuelta and giro, won numerous one day races and won just about every other stage race numerous times. Its a myth that they don't do anything but the tour.

They clearly signed landa for the giro /vuelta, as evidenced by him not been considered for the tour until he got ill at the giro.

RichN95.

I'd take most of these figures with a pinch of salt. SKY puplish there finances and it was £24.5m last year. Vauters said Cannondale only had $16m, but that's still a lot more than 10m euros.

Earlier in the year £24.5m was worth 35m Euros. It's now worth 29m Euros. Still we got our country back didn't we. :roll:

Alex99

tootsie323 wrote:

How would I beat Froome? Install Pokémon Go on his PDA.

PDA? That's a bit last decade. But yes, it might work. Or it might make him faster, collecting coins all the way up a climb. This augmented reality thing has much potential.

dinyull

gsk82 wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

gsk82 wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

You'd have to say as well that Sky's budget is focused mainly on the Tour, whereas others spread themselves over the season.

Yes, Thomas, Stannard, and Rowe are riders capable of Classic wins, but Kwiatkowski is probably their only man they pay big money to for non Tour duties.

so you're saying sky are only focused on the tour apart from they're also strong at everything else? they sent landa to the giro with a decent team after that strong classics campaign, which included poels winning LBL.

Landa, Poels etc have been signed to play super domestique to Froome in July and then allowed to give it a go at the Giro and Vuelta. The lack of results in the other GT's (aside from Froome again in the Vuelta) back this up.

Rowe, Stannard and Thomas have fallen into their laps thanks to BC, they haven't had to throw the chequebook at them like a Kwia.

Take the Tour away and look at their results from the past few years and you'd struggle to justify their budget.

They've had multiple podiums in the vuelta and giro, won numerous one day races and won just about every other stage race numerous times. Its a myth that they don't do anything but the tour.

They clearly signed landa for the giro /vuelta, as evidenced by him not been considered for the tour until he got ill at the giro.

I'd still say Sky's budget is focused on the Tour.

hypster

RichN95 wrote:

I'd take most of these figures with a pinch of salt. SKY puplish there finances and it was £24.5m last year. Vauters said Cannondale only had $16m, but that's still a lot more than 10m euros.

Earlier in the year £24.5m was worth 35m Euros. It's now worth 29m Euros. Still we got our country back didn't we. :roll:

Another bleating Remainer never missing a chance to troll out the sour grapes. We also have six stage wins, two Brits on the podium and the yellow jersey so doing a bit better than France, Germany, Italy, Spain etc. etc.......

salsiccia1

hypster wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

I'd take most of these figures with a pinch of salt. SKY puplish there finances and it was £24.5m last year. Vauters said Cannondale only had $16m, but that's still a lot more than 10m euros.

Earlier in the year £24.5m was worth 35m Euros. It's now worth 29m Euros. Still we got our country back didn't we. :roll:

Another bleating Remainer never missing a chance to troll out the sour grapes. We also have six stage wins, two Brits on the podium and the yellow jersey so doing a bit better than France, Germany, Italy, Spain etc. etc.......

DON'T START, YOU TWO

or anyone else for that matter. Some of us come on here to escape the real world.

josame

hypster wrote:

Another bleating Remainer never missing a chance to troll out the sour grapes. We also have six stage wins, two Brits on the podium and the yellow jersey so doing a bit better than France, Germany, Italy, Spain etc. etc.......

The look on my kids faces when I mention the 6 stage wins... and they shrug and ask for the more expensive lolly in the Carrefour... yay!