How would YOU beat Froome?
Comments
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Joelsim wrote:Nairo will show how it's done this year.
I just have a feeling it's his year as well. Froome will have a crash or have an off day or something.
Contador is the wiliest guy in the peloton though. If there is a way of winning this Tour through guile and nous then he'll find it.0 -
Milton50 wrote:
Contador is the wiliest guy in the peloton though. If there is a way of winning this Tour through guile and nous then he'll find it.
He last won the Tour in 2009. He's not a Tour winner anymore.
Cycling is chess on wheels. What's the sure fire way to lose at chess? That's right, be reactive. So you need to build a strategy and then ride to that, rather than trying to react to fluid race situations. This is what Sky do very well. Talk of varying the pace etc in the mountains is all fine and well, but when you've got a train riding very hard so you could attack but you won't go anywhere, it's difficult.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
FleshTuxedo wrote:If you've 2 real gc contenders (Astana), get Aru to peak in week 2, Nibali in week 3.
If you're Movistar, as others have said, get Nairo to the Alps within 2-3 minutes of Froome and why shouldn't you expect a good shot at the win?
That first one for me. Two joint leaders who can attack at will.
Also, when he launches that big first mountain stage attack don't go into the red to try to follow. Look to minimise the gap without crossing the limit, if you can keep the gap down and stay fairly fresh there's a chance in the final week if he rides the same way as he did in his wins.0 -
Get one of my domestiques to innocently ride into his wheel forcing him off injured.0
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Milton50 wrote:Joelsim wrote:Nairo will show how it's done this year.
I just have a feeling it's his year as well. Froome will have a crash or have an off day or something.
Contador is the wiliest guy in the peloton though. If there is a way of winning this Tour through guile and nous then he'll find it.
I honestly think Nairo has the confidence after the end of last year's race. I also don't think Froome will attack on the first summit.0 -
That really isn't a fair or accurate description of how he's won his two Tours so far...ozzzyosborn206 wrote:movistar have unsettled sky in the past however the amount of stress physical and mental it puts on the team to do that makes it hard to back it up the next day and the day after. I hope at some stage of the tour froome loses a minute or two to see how he rides when he needs big chunk of time rather than taking a few seconds here and there and bettering the other climbers in the TT
He's also been forced to attack before, albeit in the Vuelta rather than the Tour, and hasn't been shy about doing it.0 -
I think you would need some sort of coalition of teams to isolate him regularly and they are never going to do that as Quintana is clearly the second strongest so it hands the tour to him.
Attacking early and often will just burn your guy out.
It's very difficult. I think Quintana was flattered a bit last year by the fact that Froome was ill at the end of the third week. I still think Froome is the strongest by a margin and his team is definitely the strongest with no question marks over commitment to work for him.
My suggestion- disguise yourself as Thomas de Gendt, get in a breakaway on a stage when they let the break go and stick 11 minutes into the peloton.0 -
Without resorting to Dick Dastardly techniques, looking at the team and Froome's own strengths I think if you want to beat him you are going to need a healthy dose of good luck.
Tacticaly pay attention, make sure you are on the right side of splits at the finish line. Look how inattention cost Bertie at the Dauphine this year. Attentive, clever riding on the flat will make sure you don't lose seconds, you might even gain some.
Time trials - hope to not lose time, even better gain some.
Mountain stages - Sky have some good climbers, but more in the diesel climbers style, than the explosive attacking style. Get some riders up the road, hope that you can attack. Get a gap then be shepherded up the road whilst you recover. Once recovered attack again.
But having said that, Sky seemed to be trying out new tactics in the Dauphin, so they might be able to ride mountain attacks differently this year. To win, it's all or nothin. No protecting a podium place, or UCI points. And hope that luck is on your side. I can only really see Movistar challenging, but team dynamics are integral to their challeng. For that reason I would not have selected Senõr Hairplugs0 -
Stick to Froome for the first two weeks, (hope he doesn't gain too much in the first TT) then wait for his traditional poor third week?You live and learn. At any rate, you live0
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Jez mon wrote:Stick to Froome for the first two weeks, (hope he doesn't gain too much in the first TT) then wait for his traditional poor third week?
This has become accepted fact, despite it only really happening last year when he was ill. In 2012, he was the strongest rider in the mountains in the third week, in 2013 he only lost time to Quintana on Alpe d'Huez when he bonked and then inside the final kilometre of the final mountain stage.
It's a risky strategy.0 -
Not lose a minute plus to him in the TT on stage 13. Of the realistic contenders I can only see Porte and TJVG being able to do this. However, how much will they lose to Froome the day before on Ventoux?
I don't see Froome going for it on the first MTF this year. I think he will wait for Ventoux before doing that all out effort knowing that he will still be able to TT better than everyone else who finishes close/ahead of him up Ventoux as they will all be equally tired.
How do you counter that strategy?
Froome knows he only really has to defend against Qunitana, Landa/Poels are good enough IMO to neutralise all the other GC treats. This is what sky do so well and in strength
I cannot see Froome losing unless he has an illness or a crash0 -
Lot of people saying "wait till he's weak in the final week like he always is." Hasn't Froome come out and said he knows this is his weakness and he's doing what he can to rectify it? Preparing to be strong in the third week, did I dream that?
Not saying he'll actually be able to do it or that he's a shoe in for the win but you don't win 2x tours on luck. People saying he gained time in crosswinds like it's a bad thing, the mountains aren't the only part of a grand tour. He's a smart guy.0 -
The best way to win is probably to ignore Froome and just ride the race on your own tactics to complete the race in as short a time as possible. I know it sounds obvious but I think if you get into the mindset of how to beat someone else's tactics you are already a long way towards being beaten. It's a bit like in rugby where Wales seem to constantly be trying to catch up with the way NZ play and match them, by time you get close they are doing something else. Go out to do your best and hope that is enough to win and be prepared to miss out on the podium if necessary.0
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Pross wrote:The best way to win is probably to ignore Froome and just ride the race on your own tactics to complete the race in as short a time as possible. I know it sounds obvious but I think if you get into the mindset of how to beat someone else's tactics you are already a long way towards being beaten. It's a bit like in rugby where Wales seem to constantly be trying to catch up with the way NZ play and match them, by time you get close they are doing something else. Go out to do your best and hope that is enough to win and be prepared to miss out on the podium if necessary.
This ^^^.
Ride their own race, if they feel strong attack try and take seconds here and there. Don't sit and wait and play in to his/Skys hands.0 -
Pross wrote:The best way to win is probably to ignore Froome and just ride the race on your own tactics to complete the race in as short a time as possible.
And also ignore the sound of half of team Sky sniggering as they pass you towards the end of every stage having not had to do any work.0 -
post one of your soigneurs in the middle of the road on the first corner of the TT, holding a clipboard and posing as a commissaire...0
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I think any team that tries to out-sky sky will fail, as will any team that assumes that sky will behave exactly the same as it did in previous tours. Sky were clearly experimenting in Dauphine Libere in order to have a more flexible game and I am sure that they have been working to minimize the chances of a patchy third week by Froome and keeping in mind that some other teams may be foolishly relying on this - betting on the most tactically astute team being tactically naive is a losing game.
If Nibali and Aru both ride selflessly then they can tag team and cause real problems (in the way that Quintana and Valverde never managed) - but from all accounts that is unlikely although Martinelli is, of course, talking up team unity. Can Porte and Van Garderen do the same - BMC seem a lot more unified but neither really seem to have the 3 week tour credentials
Movistar need to do the opposite and put all eggs in Nairo Quintana's basket - he will take time off everyone on at least one and probably more than one stage; but so will Froome - Movistar need to make sure that Nairo climbing against Chris is the deciding factor and hope their man wins.
I don't see Bardet, Barguil or Pinot having the long term game to challenge either of Astana's Italian nor Froome and Quintana; they might get a podium after the top two steps are miles into the distance.
I would pay dearly to see Dan Martin attacking like a mad thing and taking chunks of time in unexpected stages - but I am pretty sure I will be disappointed0 -
Exactly. Whatever their respective teams can do will help, but in the end it's inevitably going to be man against man on these summit finishes. If you think back, Quintana has often been more difficult for Sky to drop doing their usual mountain train thing than anyone else. In 2013 at Ax3D and on Ventoux he was the first non-Sky finisher despite having attacked much earlier than Froome did on both occasions, and at PSM last year he was the only one Porte didn't manage to drop before Froome launched himself. So I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the GC group being whittled down until it's <final Sky domestique> + Froome + Quintana, and at that point it's a much more equal contest. All he has to do until then is sit on Froome's wheel.imatfaal wrote:Movistar need to do the opposite and put all eggs in Nairo Quintana's basket - he will take time off everyone on at least one and probably more than one stage; but so will Froome - Movistar need to make sure that Nairo climbing against Chris is the deciding factor and hope their man wins.0 -
KingstonGraham wrote:Pross wrote:The best way to win is probably to ignore Froome and just ride the race on your own tactics to complete the race in as short a time as possible.
And also ignore the sound of half of team Sky sniggering as they pass you towards the end of every stage having not had to do any work.
Why do you assume that this would lead Sky to not have to work? It may be that another riders best way of riding to win is to sit in and follow as Sky pull back the other contenders then attack to gain a few seconds at the end of each stage. What makes you think riding your own race equates to sitting on the front dragging everyone else around? Every rider will have a way of racing that suits them. It may not be enough to beat Froome but it's still better to go out and race to win rather than racing to try to beat someone else.0 -
Froome is not just Froome, he has an excellent team to place him, defend him, guide him.
If Bardet or Martin etc.. want to beat Froome they have to start with a team equal to sky. Its not one on one as Richie Porte found out 10 days ago, you need to have your own team working to your own plan. Sky's marginal gains have put the whole team ahead of rival teams.'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP0 -
No...this is how to beat Froome
Isolate him...
First day in the mountains, when his 'flat' riders are hoping for an easy day in the autobus, absolutely hammer it so they are all outside the time limit and get eliminated.
Then, you pick another day in the mountains when sky have had a particularly hard day and half their climbers have finished their work for the day and are pooling along at the back, hammer it again to take further advantage of the time cut off.
Repeat as necessary.
Job done.Half man, Half bike0 -
Put a stick on his spokes
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I went on a ride with Froome a couple of weeks back. Short of shooting him with a tranquilliser dart, it would be hard to 'beat him' I.M.E.0
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Ridgerider wrote:No...this is how to beat Froome
Isolate him...
First day in the mountains, when his 'flat' riders are hoping for an easy day in the autobus, absolutely hammer it so they are all outside the time limit and get eliminated.
Then, you pick another day in the mountains when sky have had a particularly hard day and half their climbers have finished their work for the day and are pooling along at the back, hammer it again to take further advantage of the time cut off.
Repeat as necessary.
Job done.
Uhhm - if its a huge group outside the time cut, the jury will keep them in the race with a time/points penalty.0 -
FWIW, if Froome is the strongest in the race, given his team, he's going to be difficult to beat, absent any bad luck. I think Quintana is going to be up there, so probably comes down to week three form...0
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The hypothetical:
If Quintana, Aru, Nibali, Contador [add your own choice] was the TL at SKY, would they still not be favourites? Froome is the string on the parcel but without the parcel, Froome is just a KOM/ITT contender.
The opposition needs to wear the team down and make them work as hard as possible. Look for a windy day. Look for a cross wind and getting to the front as possible. Make them set the pace up the mountains and sit in their slipstream for as long as possible whilst sending off the odd sacrificial lamb on a feinted attack. Quintana could easily attack the SKY diesel but only for brief periods - forcing SKY to do all the work, drop back, send someone else off etc etc. Use a marginal grind at every opportunity for marginal gains.
Remember when Froome became isolated on that rolling stage (Toulouse?). It was pandemonium and it was because a few riders went out early and attacked, SKY was in disarray and Froome was left in no-where land for a long time.He only just survived.
If I was Quintana, I would be looking to stick to Froome's wheel like a limpet up to and including the Ventoux, thereby pushing Froome into pace setting and getting a free(ish) ride, conserving as much as possible for a follow up - at least conserving as much energy as possible for the TT where Quintana will loose time but if your on Froome's coat tales, you're applying the pressure. Give him 2 minutes because of some mis-calculated/energy sapping/psychologically diminishing attack and he's out of sight and SKY can control proceedings much easier and with less pressure with that margin.
If Quintana can limit his deficit post TT to 30 seconds having done nothing but sticking to Froome's wheel and making him and SKY do all the work, I would say he was in for a shout.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Sod the above, I want Bertie to win it.
Bertie - stick to Quintana's wheel who's sticking to Froome's wheel right up until the Ventoux... Just listen to me amigo and it will all work out just fine.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
RichN95 wrote:How to beat Froome: be Nairo Quintana and be ready for when Froome has a bad day.
This
Though I suppose the next question is - how can you increase the chances of him having a bad day?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
You've got to do something about that team.
I mean it's ridiculously good.
Worryingly good, from an entertainment perspective.0
