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How would YOU beat Froome?

rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,648 Lives Here
edited September 2016 in Pro race
Before you read this: http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/author ... ign=buffer

You're the DS of the anyonebutSky team.

How d'ya beat Froome and win the Tour??
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  • with a broom handle
  • N0bodyOfTheGoatN0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 4,363
    With a motor assist hidden inside the fork and a chain stay.;)
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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,648 Lives Here
    Well, forum.

    I did try.
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 13,831
    Employ Nairo. And a team with no other aim than protecting him on the early mountain stages, then attacking on the long third week climbs.
  • FlâneurFlâneur Posts: 3,027
    I'd agree there would need to be some better collaboration between the other teams. letting Sky work to get back in if 2 or 3 contenders get a break.

    I'm unsure (and ignorant) as to whether the others have the teams (not individuals) to ride in a fashion which can put pressure on Sky. So often when I look up at a major race I see a Sky team and a few individuals from the others. Is that because the individuals in Sky are all better than every other teams individuals or just that as a team they understand racing together.*

    If a few teams or even a team can find a way to remove most of his team support and then keep up some attacks then maybe that could break him (for instance a Porte TVJ attacking one after the other). I just can't see the other teams ever allowing this as it risks their GC hopes, which increase if Froome is out.

    Sometimes it just has to be a matter of rolling the dice, cycling is a sport loaded with luck and if you roll the dice often enough (or enough teams do) then somebody will get the needed roll. But who is willing to gamble that on beating Sky or leaving with nothing. Money (revenue) means finishing matters and second is better than last in that respect).

    None of this is to say Froome can't be beaten but sometimes I feel that smart racing isn't always apparent on the road or from the car

    *I read recently that Froome learnt a lot about how to ride in a team and as a team with Sky. This made me wonder how many of the other teams are made up of riders who struggle with the team dynamic beyond the bellowed orders.
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  • effilloeffillo Posts: 257
    Don't run Mr all about me Valverde as the support for your main GC guy.

    Also, beware of cross winds early in the race!!
  • stagehopperstagehopper Posts: 1,593
    Attack early and attack often.
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 4,982
    So I'd put pressure on Froome in the early stages and be sure to watch for any potential to put him under pressure - either through splits (cross winds etc) or technically such as decents. And yep, I'd then attack early and long.

    Thinking specifically of Nairo, rather than waiting for the Alps I'd try to gain time climbing in the Pyrenees...
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,331
    I agree with Millar - the other teams have to realise they have to beat Froome first and foremost and worry about the rest after. We've seen Contador gamble in the past such as with his attack on the descent of the Sarenne only for Movistar to pal up with Sky - that kind of thing is playing into Froome's hands. We all know what suits Froome - as Millar says it's save as much energy as possible and then deliver it over a sustained last 3-4 kms - he'll even let attacks go further down the mountain to avoid going too far into the red too early to save it for that final burst.

    The ideal is get Sky in yellow early on and wear them down over the course of the race. Then just try and make the race hard go control - any stage you can get a lot of riders of whatever team up the road help that happen - don't help Sky control the race take a risk. If you have a second GC rider keep them up there and use them wisely. If Froome lets 3-4 GC men get a gap on the lower slopes of a climb then cooperate so it's not easy for him to come back without going into the red. Pretty much what Millar says - if it comes down to a power to weight match over 3km Froome should win.
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  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,301
    Don't let him get over a minute on you by stage 3. Sit on his wheel until the third week and see what happens.
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  • ShadowriderShadowrider Posts: 483
    dish_dash wrote:
    So I'd put pressure on Froome in the early stages and be sure to watch for any potential to put him under pressure - either through splits (cross winds etc) or technically such as decents.

    He's shown he's more than capable of dealing with both of these things. :roll: Infact if you were Quintana's DS you should be focusing on making sure your man deals with these better. He's come to grief on both in recent years, and crosswinds lost him the tour last year.
  • Dorset_BoyDorset_Boy Posts: 3,371
    You have to be prepared to come away with nothing in order to win.
    Attack Sky often and form some early alliances.
    Don't allow Froome to win the Tour on the first MTF.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,125
    Teach Nairo that loosing the odd handful of seconds in the first week adds up into a race winning margin by the end of the race.

    Sit on the Sky train on a hockey stick stage, especially if it's early in the race. Don't try to out-Sky Sky, just prevent Froome taking time from your leader.

    On a "proper"mountain stage, be unpredictable. vary the pace so that they have to start using Thomas, Poels, Lopez etc earlier than they can handle so that it is at least one on one v Froome.

    Make sure your TT is as good as it can be.
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  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 4,982
    dish_dash wrote:
    So I'd put pressure on Froome in the early stages and be sure to watch for any potential to put him under pressure - either through splits (cross winds etc) or technically such as decents.

    He's shown he's more than capable of dealing with both of these things. :roll: Infact if you were Quintana's DS you should be focusing on making sure your man deals with these better. He's come to grief on both in recent years, and crosswinds lost him the tour last year.

    Yeah, how did that work out on the road to London? Froome's handling skills still a weak point...
  • ShadowriderShadowrider Posts: 483
    dish_dash wrote:
    dish_dash wrote:
    So I'd put pressure on Froome in the early stages and be sure to watch for any potential to put him under pressure - either through splits (cross winds etc) or technically such as decents.

    He's shown he's more than capable of dealing with both of these things. :roll: Infact if you were Quintana's DS you should be focusing on making sure your man deals with these better. He's come to grief on both in recent years, and crosswinds lost him the tour last year.

    Yeah, how did that work out on the road to London? Froome's handling skills still a weak point...

    1 crash in the first few days of the tour? I raise you his performance on the cobbles last year, avoiding a crashed contador on a down hill, catching Quintana on a downhill top tube pedalling. I thought we agreed to put this myth to bed last year?
  • mpattsmpatts Posts: 1,002
    Attack early, attack often - get a good mix of people within 30 secs of GC, and send them up the road.

    Pretty amazing that at the Dauphine Yogi and Rowe were able to survive for longer than you would expect - needs to be made much harder so Froome has to attack earlier on (his weakness).

    I can't help thinking that that's why Sky showed a few different tactics at Suisse/Dauphine.

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  • yorkshirerawyorkshireraw Posts: 1,227
    dish_dash wrote:
    dish_dash wrote:
    So I'd put pressure on Froome in the early stages and be sure to watch for any potential to put him under pressure - either through splits (cross winds etc) or technically such as decents.

    He's shown he's more than capable of dealing with both of these things. :roll: Infact if you were Quintana's DS you should be focusing on making sure your man deals with these better. He's come to grief on both in recent years, and crosswinds lost him the tour last year.

    Yeah, how did that work out on the road to London? Froome's handling skills still a weak point...

    The guy in front of him made an error, crashed, and took Froome out. You can argue about his positioning but there was nothing anyone could have done to avoid it.
  • yorkshirerawyorkshireraw Posts: 1,227
    dish_dash wrote:
    So I'd put pressure on Froome in the early stages and be sure to watch for any potential to put him under pressure - either through splits (cross winds etc) or technically such as decents.

    He's shown he's more than capable of dealing with both of these things. :roll: Infact if you were Quintana's DS you should be focusing on making sure your man deals with these better. He's come to grief on both in recent years, and crosswinds lost him the tour last year.

    Exactly. I'd love to know how a Movistar, AG2R or FDJ are going to be able to best a Sky team containing Rowe, Stannard & Thomas is x-winds / classics type conditions. Tinkoff / Astana, maybe.
  • milton50milton50 Posts: 3,856
    Attempt to ride the race in exactly the kind of way Froome doesn't want it ridden.

    1) Froome wants his team to dominate on the climbs and set a metronomic tempo.

    So constantly change the pace and attack frequently. Don't be afraid to send people up the road. Froome often lets gaps go and backs his ability to slowly ride back, so force him to miscalculate or become over confident. Save your team for crucial moments - let Sky form the Sky train.

    2) Froome wants the race to be decided in the mountains and in the TT.

    Push as hard as possible on descents, in possible cross winds and following crashes. Attempt to gain as much time as possible from arguably Froome's weakest skill set.

    3) Froome wants a decent buffer after the first mountain stage as he often fades towards the end.

    The first week has quite a few hilly days. Don't just ride them in an effort to not lose time - put pressure on him. 10 seconds here, 15 seconds there could be massive by the end of the race. If I was a DS for Movistar I'd be prepared to lose 2nd in order to throw everything at him in the final week - don't think the sponsors would be too happy though.

    At the end of the day Froome is the best all round GT rider. The only way to beat him is to surprise him, unsettle him and to put time into him outside of the big mountain stages.
  • jam1ejam1e Posts: 1,006
    In "the other place" these threads normally degenerate into fantasy with all the other teams sacrificing their own ambitions in order that someone else ( ideally dirty Bertie) can pick up the pieces.

    The trouble is that the goal of ensuring Froome doesn't win isn't the same as ensuring your team does as well as possible. It's all well and good saying attack early and often but if that's Movistar's plan then they may put Froome under pressure but the other teams aren't just going to sit back and let him go because they prefer Quintana to Froome. Obviously if Froome's in yellow then sky will lead the chase but once he isn't then attention turns to the new leader. Likewise the main teams are unlikely to take it in turns to attack time after time because anyone worth chasing is putting themselves in danger of losing time if it doesn't pan out on your go.

    Realistically I think the best the teams can do is concentrate on not losing time and if they feel there's a half decent chance then they need to take it rather than waiting for the perfect chance to come along.
  • greasedscotsmangreasedscotsman Posts: 7,224
    I'd just go for stage wins.
  • The_BoyThe_Boy Posts: 3,099
    I would consult Tonya Harding. Though that would then leave me with the problem of what to do with the other 197...
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  • dinyulldinyull Posts: 2,962
    If Valverde had of worked for Quintana last year and sacrificed his podium spot, Nairo probably would have won it.

    He's definitely beatable.
  • fleshtuxedofleshtuxedo Posts: 1,823
    If you've 2 real gc contenders (Astana), get Aru to peak in week 2, Nibali in week 3.

    If you're Movistar, as others have said, get Nairo to the Alps within 2-3 minutes of Froome and why shouldn't you expect a good shot at the win?
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 11,838
    Look at history. How many times has the best GC rider lost a GT?

    The only effective strategy in my mind is to islolate Froome on the flat / small hills. How you do that is another matter.
  • I think you find a guy called (Nairo) Quintana, hone his racecraft, improve his ITT and then smash Froome out of sight. Which is what will happen this time round.
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  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 4,982
    Let's not jinx it...
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,648 Lives Here
    Refuse to do an ounce of work on the front with your team.

    Not a jot.

    Use your Giro podiumers to get into breaks & really make the first hours difficult on every stage. Anything you can do to irritate the team.

    The rest they do already.

    But you have to push sky harder. Make them do as much as you can!
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    Nairo will show how it's done this year.
  • ozzzyosborn206ozzzyosborn206 Posts: 1,340
    movistar have unsettled sky in the past however the amount of stress physical and mental it puts on the team to do that makes it hard to back it up the next day and the day after. I hope at some stage of the tour froome loses a minute or two to see how he rides when he needs big chunk of time rather than taking a few seconds here and there and bettering the other climbers in the TT
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